A read the thread title, then the OP. I'm missing the review. All I see is a list of skill updates... What's the conclusion here? What are we discussing? I'm seeing opinions on several updates, but no clear point of discussion.
Have we enjoyed the skill balances? Hmmmm. I just read 'em as they come, see if they impact my gameplay a lot or not, and play on. I adapt my builds if need be. Perhaps I'm sad at some nerfs, or happy at some buffs. That's it really. Hope that's what the OP wanted to hear.
6 Months of Skill Updates: A Review
Sjeng
Redvex
Personally i see a lot of nerf and a random buff.
That's ok but that random buff are too overpowered.
I hope to see more buff to unused skills instead nerf of most used one.
That's ok but that random buff are too overpowered.
I hope to see more buff to unused skills instead nerf of most used one.
Toxic OnyX
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Strength of Honor(PvE): increased damage to 5...21...25. Strength of Honor (PvP): decrease damage to 1...4...5 |
PvE/PvP skill split killed this game and killed any sense of balance, PvE players fail hugely in PvP as they do not understand how their favoured builds deal less damage and are of less use in PvP enviroment
The best thing they could have done was keep all skills balanced via pvp useage and if you really really really REALLY need OP skills then make them PvE only sealed deck builds (like Ursan) so as not to contaminate the game as a whole
no turning the clock back now though
Kendel
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Originally Posted by 4thVariety
Who cares about the Top200? That is how much of the playerbase? 0.01%? The magic of social gaming does not happen around a few elite people randomly grouping for PvP, for the most part it happens when normal people band together against monsters.
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mazza558
Moderator's Edit: leaked info deleted.
If that's true then they'll just get nerfed again. I mean, think about it, Assassin's Promise plus 5 restoration sprits (Union?!) would be more powerful than any Protection Monk.
Having said that, these changes would easily make the Rit my favourite profession. The Mobile Spirits build is fantastic and would be so much more convenient if these changes are true.
If that's true then they'll just get nerfed again. I mean, think about it, Assassin's Promise plus 5 restoration sprits (Union?!) would be more powerful than any Protection Monk.
Having said that, these changes would easily make the Rit my favourite profession. The Mobile Spirits build is fantastic and would be so much more convenient if these changes are true.
upier
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Originally Posted by Toxic OnyX
The best thing they could have done was keep all skills balanced via pvp useage and if you really really really REALLY need OP skills then make them PvE only sealed deck builds (like Ursan) so as not to contaminate the game as a whole.(
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So what we are seeing is probably the best possible option.
Gonzo_Neo
Moderator's Edit: leaked info deleted.
No Paragons and Dervish again, 6 months and nothing ..........sigh.........
A big question arena.net, ¿ why you create the Paragon and Dervish to ignore them ?
Must we make a "super post" to improve Motivation like the Ritus made with Spawning Power to do something and wait 4 months again, or simply you want that only Paragon=Imbagon and Dervish=Nothing in pve ?
No Paragons and Dervish again, 6 months and nothing ..........sigh.........
A big question arena.net, ¿ why you create the Paragon and Dervish to ignore them ?
Must we make a "super post" to improve Motivation like the Ritus made with Spawning Power to do something and wait 4 months again, or simply you want that only Paragon=Imbagon and Dervish=Nothing in pve ?
Coast
roj is fine: low energy pool if u use it on monk, pretty much only skill that keep smiting usable(after all nerfs on the usefull smite elites) its also 10 energy big casttime n recharge
for people that complain the answer is simple: make all aoe spells in hm pve not cause scatter and make scatter in every other aspect of the game
for people that complain the answer is simple: make all aoe spells in hm pve not cause scatter and make scatter in every other aspect of the game
Burton2000
Cheers for the update notes been looking for them. Meh at least nothing is getting broken in the update and slight nerfs to hexes is always cool. Will have to see how the runner changes effect what people run.
Toxic OnyX
lol coast I just got that joke... ah you weren't kidding :/
so lets see whats wrong with what you just posted
Roj is fine?
All other AoE skills should be adjusted to NOT cause scatter in HM ?
/sigh
you wonder why PvP players and those seeking balance are leaving the game in droves?
it is for complete nonsense like that!
do you honestly not have the first concept of broken skills, balance or common sense?
so lets see whats wrong with what you just posted
Roj is fine?
All other AoE skills should be adjusted to NOT cause scatter in HM ?
/sigh
you wonder why PvP players and those seeking balance are leaving the game in droves?
it is for complete nonsense like that!
do you honestly not have the first concept of broken skills, balance or common sense?
Nightow
So no buffs to spirit's health if this is correct.
If so, I'd still doubt the old rit lord build will be playable.
If so, I'd still doubt the old rit lord build will be playable.
Div
I like how the OP cleverly doesn't list the 40 elite change from December, which consisted of mostly buffs that created new play. Anet does a big buff about every 6 months, and then uses the next 5 months to tone down some of the stuff that got overbuffed.
Plus, a person is retarded if they simply count the number of buffs/nerfs instead of the degree of the buff/nerf. Take lingering for example:
The December buff made it: Lingering Curse: Energy cost reduced to 5, Health sacrifice removed, casting time reduced to 1 second. Functionality changed to: "For 6..30 seconds, target foe and all nearby foes suffer -1..3 Health degeneration, and gain 33% less benefit from healing."
All the two following nerfs did was tone it down (reducing health degen at 12 curses and slightly less healing), but it's still buffed compared to last November, even though by direct counts it was buffed only once and nerfed twice.
To the OP: Don't try to ask for fair responses when your opening post is clearly biased given the data you've shown and the way you presented it.
Plus, a person is retarded if they simply count the number of buffs/nerfs instead of the degree of the buff/nerf. Take lingering for example:
The December buff made it: Lingering Curse: Energy cost reduced to 5, Health sacrifice removed, casting time reduced to 1 second. Functionality changed to: "For 6..30 seconds, target foe and all nearby foes suffer -1..3 Health degeneration, and gain 33% less benefit from healing."
All the two following nerfs did was tone it down (reducing health degen at 12 curses and slightly less healing), but it's still buffed compared to last November, even though by direct counts it was buffed only once and nerfed twice.
To the OP: Don't try to ask for fair responses when your opening post is clearly biased given the data you've shown and the way you presented it.
![Ec]-[oMaN](/static/static/../Img/avatar8384_2.gif){kind=avatar}
Ec]-[oMaN
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Originally Posted by Toxic OnyX
That's a-nets biggest problem right there.
PvE/PvP skill split killed this game and killed any sense of balance, PvE players fail hugely in PvP as they do not understand how their favoured builds deal less damage and are of less use in PvP enviroment The best thing they could have done was keep all skills balanced via pvp useage and if you really really really REALLY need OP skills then make them PvE only sealed deck builds (like Ursan) so as not to contaminate the game as a whole no turning the clock back now though |
It's a shame because your second statement would be of the most benefit for the health of the game as a whole, except many would disagree balance update after balance update, all that occurred was an uproar of QQ especially from the PvE player base because their real effective build may have been altered, removing them from their little safe haven of familiarity and ease of gameplay.
dusanyu
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Originally Posted by Kain Fz
Anet forgot they made paras, rofl..
Anyways, yeah, its sad it's mainly nerfs and not very innovative =/ What was with all the pointless ranger nerfs anywyas? They're practically useless in general pve, outside of a few utility in elite areas and splinter barrage. |
the other nerfs are a needed reaction to the absolute mess Izzy left us before going to work on GW2 in the form of the elite Skill buffs
allot of the Skill buffs for example Weaken Knees proves that someones head was up there own personal dark fleshy cave when they thought of the skill changes. now That the damage has been done they need to be knocked back into allinement with a nerf bat.
So some over powered stuff got hit QQ
Coast
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Originally Posted by Toxic OnyX
lol coast I just got that joke... ah you weren't kidding :/
so lets see whats wrong with what you just posted Roj is fine? All other AoE skills should be adjusted to NOT cause scatter in HM ? /sigh you wonder why PvP players and those seeking balance are leaving the game in droves? it is for complete nonsense like that! do you honestly not have the first concept of broken skills, balance or common sense? |
This means it would cause scatter in all pvp formats and normal mode pve.
ps: think before u type something, have a great day
Karate Jesus
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Originally Posted by holymasamune
I like how the OP cleverly doesn't list the 40 elite change from December, which consisted of mostly buffs that created new play. Anet does a big buff about every 6 months, and then uses the next 5 months to tone down some of the stuff that got overbuffed.
Plus, a person is retarded if they simply count the number of buffs/nerfs instead of the degree of the buff/nerf. Take lingering for example: The December buff made it: Lingering Curse: Energy cost reduced to 5, Health sacrifice removed, casting time reduced to 1 second. Functionality changed to: "For 6..30 seconds, target foe and all nearby foes suffer -1..3 Health degeneration, and gain 33% less benefit from healing." All the two following nerfs did was tone it down (reducing health degen at 12 curses and slightly less healing), but it's still buffed compared to last November, even though by direct counts it was buffed only once and nerfed twice. To the OP: Don't try to ask for fair responses when your opening post is clearly biased given the data you've shown and the way you presented it. |
Seems kind of stupid to assume that a thread titled "6 Months of Skill Updates" would include a 7th month just to balance out the responses. I literally just listed the skill updates. That's it.
I would like to add that I'm disappointed that Dervs and Paras haven't been worked with in 6 months...and if that leaked skill update is true, it will make 7 months. Also, if the leaked info is true then lol @ the terrible Spawning power buff/communing weapon spells nerf.
Keira Nightgale
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Originally Posted by Karate Jesus
All I did was post the last 6 months of updates (and will include the new one when it comes out). I didn't include December, because....well obviously it was LAST year and not one of the last 6 months.
Seems kind of stupid to assume that a thread titled "6 Months of Skill Updates" would include a 7th month just to balance out the responses. I literally just listed the skill updates. That's it. I would like to add that I'm disappointed that Dervs and Paras haven't been worked with in 6 months...and if that leaked skill update is true, it will make 7 months. Also, if the leaked info is true then lol @ the terrible Spawning power buff/communing weapon spells nerf. |
Nightow
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Originally Posted by Karate Jesus
I would like to add that I'm disappointed that Dervs and Paras haven't been worked with in 6 months...and if that leaked skill update is true, it will make 7 months. Also, if the leaked info is true then lol @ the terrible Spawning power buff/communing weapon spells nerf.
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Oh well, back to WoW. >_>
Snow Bunny
It's 6 months of nerfs to garbage that was bumped in the last month of the year.
Terrible thread.
pz
Terrible thread.
pz
Ec]-[oMaN
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Originally Posted by Snow Bunny
It's 6 months of nerfs to garbage that was bumped in the last month of the year.
Terrible thread. pz |
Karate Jesus
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Originally Posted by Keira Nightgale
If the leaked infos are true this is going to be the worst nerf ritualists ever received, might as well remove them from the game.
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Still....nerfing other professions abilities is a weird way to try to increase ritualist use.
Ec]-[oMaN
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Originally Posted by Karate Jesus
Still....nerfing other professions abilities is a weird way to try to increase ritualist use. |
Keira Nightgale
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Originally Posted by Karate Jesus
Actually, they're trying to make them useful with weapon spells again. In PvE and PvP, primary rits will be the only characters worth using weapon spells on anymore because they'll be the only characters that can make their spells last long enough to be worth a damn.
Still....nerfing other professions abilities is a weird way to try to increase ritualist use. |
weapon of warding from 5-10s to 3 -8s duration
10seconds are achieved with 15 restoration magic
Currently with 15 in restoration and 3 in spawning your wow is going to last
10 seconds + 6%= 10.6 seconds
if the leaked infos are true it would be
8 seconds + 12%= 8.96 seconds
A 1.64 seconds shorter duration
In order to get similar result you'd have to put 8 in spawning, a waste of AP
About spirits, IMHO Anet thinks this is a good way to fix them, shame they totally forgot why spirits are useless. The main problem is not with casting time but with their AI, lack of utility, immobility, low level/armor/hp/energy cost and are generally not worth the effort, without mentioning how utterly idiotic 3/4 ritualist skills are (LOL spiritleech aura, and 4, WTF FOUR resurrection skills for a non core class all having the same exact mechanic ).
Is asking them to revert ritualist to what they were in 2006 too much? There is a PVE/PVP separation for a reason, without mentioning how rare ritualist are even in pvp.
Again this is if the update is true.
Karate Jesus
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Originally Posted by Keira Nightgale
About spirits, IMHO Anet thinks this is a good way to fix them, shame they totally forgot why spirits are useless. The main problem is not with casting time but with their AI, lack of utility, immobility, low level/armor/hp/energy cost and are generally not worth the effort, without mentioning how utterly idiotic 3/4 ritualist skills are (LOL spiritleech aura, and 4, WTF FOUR resurrection skills for a non core class all having the same exact mechanic ).
Is asking them to revert ritualist to what they were in 2006 too much? There is a PVE/PVP separation for a reason, without mentioning how rare ritualist are even in pvp. Again this is if the update is true. |
It will be interesting to see AP Spirit Spammers again.
TheDarkshineKnight
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Originally Posted by Keira Nightgale
If the leaked infos are true this is going to be the worst nerf ritualists ever received, might as well remove them from the game.
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Keira Nightgale
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Originally Posted by Karate Jesus
Tbh, the spirit buffs will make people run Spirit Spammers again. Oh, and in PvE spirits aren't immobile (Summon Spirits), their low level/armor/hp don't matter because you can recharge them with Assassin's Promise, and the cost of spirits can be handled with decent e-management.
It will be interesting to see AP Spirit Spammers again. |
Summon spirits is not a solution. The heal is minimal (r12 kurz here), second it puts spirits all in the same place so that they can be easily taken out, third because mobs AI prioritizes lower level targets spirits are always going to be the bull's eye.
In the last case, if the spirits are defensive (they should be already dead considering that at 16 spawning they only last 5-6 seconds) you could safely put them out of the aggro bubble, problem resolved, but if they are attacking spirits they must be placed on the midline, ergo they are going to be targeted. Pair this up with a horrible AI unable to tell the difference between a melee or a caster (great shadowsong blinded an ele).
And again, you do realize that AP is a sin skill, spirits should be viable without having to resort to your secondary and waste your elite slot (even if AP is better than 99% of the other ritualists elites).
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Originally Posted by TheDarkshineKnight
Are you kidding? If that info is true, then this is going to be the biggest buff Ritualists have ever received. Notice that while all of the spell durations were nerfed, Spawning Power was buffed. So, if you want bring along Rit weapon skills in a build, you'll have to bring a Rit along. Otherwise, you'll be stuck with buffs that last for a very short time. This essentially forces builds to bring along a Ritualist in PvP, which pleases me greatly.
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The impact is minimal on Eles and Necros. An ele will cast WoW more often, ritualists instead cannot afford to waste energy and therefore must raise spawning from 3 to 9 in order to achieve the same results they could get before.
mazza558
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Originally Posted by Karate Jesus
Tbh, the spirit buffs will make people run Spirit Spammers again. Oh, and in PvE spirits aren't immobile (Summon Spirits), their low level/armor/hp don't matter because you can recharge them with Assassin's Promise, and the cost of spirits can be handled with decent e-management.
It will be interesting to see AP Spirit Spammers again. |
It'll be great times for the PvE Ritualist if the leaks are true.
But then I can see such builds getting nerfed for being too powerful, but we'll have to wait and see.
Karate Jesus
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Originally Posted by Keira Nightgale
Can you read? Given the infos are true they are not a buff. They are forcing you to put points in spawning power to achieve the same duration we already have.
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Now, in PvE this....sucks, because now your N/Rt's weapon spells will suck and Rt heroes/Rt players will have to spread their atts pretty heavily just to use their own skills....which as I've already said "sucks".
However, in PvP this forces Rits into use (that is, if you want to use Weapon Spells). Primary Eles, Necros, and Mesmers wont be able to use weapon spells as easily any more....so ritualists will either be used in PvP or.....well, or people will just stop using weapon spells (which is possible).
Coast
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Originally Posted by Keira Nightgale
No, the few minority of us who still plays ritualist rarely uses spirits for the aforementioned matter, not because of their casting time (wich is one of the issues but not the main one). Spirit spamming died because it's not viable, spirits die before they even appear on screen, they cost too much. Even more evident in HM where mob actually hit faster therefore triggering union about 10 times in 2 seconds.
Summon spirits is not a solution. The heal is minimal (r12 kurz here), second it puts spirits all in the same place so that they can be easily taken out, third because mobs AI prioritizes lower level targets spirits are always going to be the bull's eye. In the last case, if the spirits are defensive (they should be already dead considering that at 16 spawning they only last 5-6 seconds) you could safely put them out of the aggro bubble, problem resolved, but if they are attacking spirits they must be placed on the midline, ergo they are going to be targeted. Pair this up with a horrible AI unable to tell the difference between a melee or a caster (great shadowsong blinded an ele). And again, you do realize that AP is a sin skill, spirits should be viable without having to resort to your secondary and waste your elite slot (even if AP is better than 99% of the other ritualists elites). Can you read? Given the infos are true they are not a buff. They are forcing you to put points in spawning power to achieve the same duration we already have. The impact is minimal on Eles and Necros. An ele will cast WoW more often, ritualists instead cannot afford to waste energy and therefore must raise spawning from 3 to 9 in order to achieve the same results they could get before. |
Keira Nightgale
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Originally Posted by Karate Jesus
Forcing you to put points in Spawning is a ritualist buff simply because it nerfs other professions abilities to use weapon spells.
Now, in PvE this....sucks, because now your N/Rt's weapon spells will suck and Rt heroes/Rt players will have to spread their atts pretty heavily just to use their own skills....which as I've already said "sucks". However, in PvP this forces Rits into use (that is, if you want to use Weapon Spells). Primary Eles, Necros, and Mesmers wont be able to use weapon spells as easily any more....so ritualists will either be used in PvP or.....well, or people will just stop using weapon spells (which is possible). |
A buff is when they increase a skill/attribute line viability by making it better.
Forcing you to put points in spawning does the opposite:
It hinders your flexibility, these extra points could have been useful for another attribute (12-12-3 spread)
If you don't put points in spawning your weapon spells will have a duration shorter than the one they actually have
Even if you put points into spawning you will have to reach 9-10 Attribute level to gain a minimal benefit.
Necro and eles are not hit, at least not in pve. A necro can afford to spam a weapon spell since they got infinite energy, ritualists cannot.
This is a nerf.
reaper with no name
If the duration of weapon spells are indeed recieving a nerf (with SP bringing those durations back to normal), then that is indeed a buff to rits. Well, primary rits at least.
Remember, the reason rits suck is not primarily due to their skills; it's due to the fact that other professions (coughnecrocough) can use them better than the rit can. Anything that makes the rit better at using their own skills relative to other professions is exactly what's needed most. We can worry about buffing skills later. What's needed first and foremost is for there to be a reason to be a rit.
Remember, the reason rits suck is not primarily due to their skills; it's due to the fact that other professions (coughnecrocough) can use them better than the rit can. Anything that makes the rit better at using their own skills relative to other professions is exactly what's needed most. We can worry about buffing skills later. What's needed first and foremost is for there to be a reason to be a rit.
Karate Jesus
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Originally Posted by Keira Nightgale
Are you serious?
A buff is when they increase a skill/attribute line viability by making it better. Forcing you to put points in spawning does the opposite: It hinders your flexibility, these extra points could have been useful for another attribute (12-12-3 spread) If you don't put points in spawning your weapon spells will have a duration shorter than the one they actually have Even if you put points into spawning you will have to reach 9-10 Attribute level to gain a minimal benefit. Necro and eles are not hit, at least not in pve. A necro can afford to spam a weapon spell since they got infinite energy, ritualists cannot. This is a nerf. |
Look, I don't like the change either. I think it's a foolish and lackluster way to buff a primary attribute that has struggled for a while. But, what did you expect from Anet? This is just what I've come to expect...
Keira Nightgale
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Originally Posted by Coast
It is a buff tho dude, believe it or not(indirect buff). wow is basically an unremovable big guardian (unless u attack in pvp or are so smart to overlpa it with another weaponspell) therefor it will still be used what means people will use rit flagger
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I'll refresh your memory:
it's a template that allows you a 3 seconds every 15 antispike with a 14 net energy gain
If you lower WoW (or any other weapon spell) duration by two seconds the ele will laugh hard, with his build it's really hard to fall short on energy therefore he can solve the duration problem by casting WoW again. This goes in pve as well, with necros SR or elementalists using Ether Renewal.
Ritualist on the other hand cannot afford this, they will either stop using weapon spells or increase spawning power in order to attain the previous effects therefore lowering their flexibility.
We are going offtopic btw.
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Originally Posted by Karate Jesus
Buff. Technically, you're correct that this isn't a buff (if the definition of buff is something that is "wanted"). But, it's obvious that it was intended to be a buff.
Look, I don't like the change either. I think it's a foolish and lackluster way to buff a primary attribute that has struggled for a while. But, what did you expect from Anet? This is just what I've come to expect... |
Same with the spirits modification, they are buffed but it's just a way for Anet to be lazy and not fix the real issues. Still in terms of fictional update.
Karate Jesus
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Originally Posted by Keira Nightgale
Are you familiar with the current ether prism template?
I'll refresh your memory: it's a template that allows you a 3 seconds every 15 antispike with a 14 net energy gain If you lower WoW (or any other weapon spell) duration by two seconds the ele will laugh hard, with his build it's really hard to fall short on energy therefore he can solve the duration problem by casting WoW again. This goes in pve as well, with necros SR or elementalists using Ether Renewal. Ritualist on the other hand cannot afford this, they will either stop using weapon spells or increase spawning power in order to attain the previous effects therefore lowering their flexibility. We are going offtopic btw. |
And we are off-topic. Back on topic, gogo
Short
I agree with what someone said earlier on, they do a big buff every 6 months and then fix it for the next few. I'm expecting more buffs than what was leaked, if not it'll be slightly
Ghost Omel
i hope that leaked new are either fake or just a small portion of the netire skill update.....Regardless i alwasy adapt to any skill change =) they dont affect me much anyway.. just find a different skill But thjats not the topic.. so yeah changes are just that changes good or bad is a metter of perception.
Ec]-[oMaN
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Originally Posted by Short
I agree with what someone said earlier on, they do a big buff every 6 months and then fix it for the next few. I'm expecting more buffs than what was leaked, if not it'll be slightly
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Short
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Originally Posted by Ec]-[oMaN
Don't worry given the track record expect 20+ elites to get pushed into lame meta come July/August.
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Keira Nightgale
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Originally Posted by Ec]-[oMaN
Don't worry given the track record expect 20+ elites to get pushed into lame meta come July/August.
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Hex Eater Vortex Elite Spell. Remove a hex from target ally. If a hex is removed in this way, any foes in the area die.
Power Flux Elite Hex Spell. If target foe is casting a spell or chant he dies, if not he takes over 9000 damage and is dazed.
Mind Blast Elite Spell. Foes in the area are struck for 15...51 fire damage. If you have more Energy than target foe, you gain 1...7 Energy + 5 energy for each foe you hit.
Ether Prism Skill. For 10 seconds, all damage you take is reduced to 0. When Ether Prism ends, you gain 5...17 Energy. Made non elite so that it can be used with Mind Blast
Lingering Curse Elite Hex Spell. For 6...25 seconds, target foe and all nearby foes suffer -0...2 Health degeneration, and receive 20% less benefit from healing. Any attempt to get rid of this hex automatically fails, hex is renewed if is not removed before its duration expires
Palm Strike Elite Skill. Target touched foe takes 10...540 damage and is Crippled for 1...400 seconds. This skill counts as an off-hand attack.
Second Wind Elite Spell. You gain 100 energy. This spell causes Exhaustion on target foe and 1 nearby foe for each rank of Illusion magic (you're going to use distortion anyway) if target foe is a warrior he's blinded, weakened, suffers from deep wound and a monk in the area is knocked down for 3 seconds.
An error during character creation has been fixed, such bug allowed you to create classes such Paragons and Ritualists wich were never meant to be.
Coast
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Originally Posted by Keira Nightgale
Are you familiar with the current ether prism template?
I'll refresh your memory: it's a template that allows you a 3 seconds every 15 antispike with a 14 net energy gain If you lower WoW (or any other weapon spell) duration by two seconds the ele will laugh hard, with his build it's really hard to fall short on energy therefore he can solve the duration problem by casting WoW again. This goes in pve as well, with necros SR or elementalists using Ether Renewal. Ritualist on the other hand cannot afford this, they will either stop using weapon spells or increase spawning power in order to attain the previous effects therefore lowering their flexibility. We are going offtopic btw. No, it's not. It would be a buff if it produced better effects, it's a primary attribute buff, I'll give you that, but Ritualists (as a class) are nerfed. Same with the spirits modification, they are buffed but it's just a way for Anet to be lazy and not fix the real issues. Still in terms of fictional update. |