I went to Umbral this morning to see the reaction, the very few people on at that time laughed when I mentioned the RoJ/CoP nerf, all they said was that it takes 2-3 minutes longer to make an VSF run.
The conversation went on for a little while but that was basically it. Also I've seen a guy here on Guru qq'ing about SC not beeing doable anymore. Are these just pissed off kids that can't farm those popular places in stupid amounts of time or have things actually been toned down at least?
I'm just trying to figure out how exactly did this affect all the high-end areas beeing continously raped. Are SC's dead as well or what?
How exactly did this update affect high-end PvE?
kupp
Nodakim
UWSC is here,FOWSC got replaced with necro FOCers...
Martin Alvito
The final impact of new changes takes days or weeks to assess. It's a bit too early to tell how people will find ways to save time by adjusting tactics.
This WILL slow groups down, most notably full HM DoA clears. 2-3 minutes on a VS run is a long time, given the short nature of the run. The shorter the run, the larger the impact of lengthening the run by the same amount of time.
For instance, lengthening UWSC's by five minutes isn't going to make them inefficient, as compared to other ways of spending your time.
This WILL slow groups down, most notably full HM DoA clears. 2-3 minutes on a VS run is a long time, given the short nature of the run. The shorter the run, the larger the impact of lengthening the run by the same amount of time.
For instance, lengthening UWSC's by five minutes isn't going to make them inefficient, as compared to other ways of spending your time.
Nodakim
UWSC is actualy buffed after the update...
Sad Panda
IMO Not at all, because I dont consider speed clears High End PVE, almost any player can run it, the only skill it takes is the person who knows how to do the run. It doesnt take much skill to CoP.
i farm baddies
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Originally Posted by Sad Panda
IMO Not at all, because I dont consider speed clears High End PVE, almost any player can run it, the only skill it takes is the person who knows how to do the run. It doesnt take much skill to CoP.
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please explain what high end pve is then
Jenn
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Originally Posted by i farm baddies
LOL
please explain what high end pve is then |
. Some of the most fun high-end PvE is balanced-ish byob, and if you have good players, it doesn't take much longer than something like cryway, but it is something most people can't do.
Abedeus
I do not believe it's "only 2 seconds longer". They halved the damage, for crying out loud. And RoJ has been fixed.
I bet they were just bluffing.
I bet they were just bluffing.
i farm baddies
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Originally Posted by Abedeus
I do not believe it's "only 2 seconds longer". They halved the damage, for crying out loud. And RoJ has been fixed.
I bet they were just bluffing. |
and uw and fow arent high end? doa isnt high end? just because you can speed clear it makes it not high end?
Martin Alvito
He's claiming that deliberately gimping your team (no PvE skills, no cons, traditional team structures, etc.) is "skilled" play.
Myself, I consider it a waste of time. It's like golf; the scorecard has room for a score, not a story. Doesn't matter how you get it done, as long as you get it done. Given that, I prefer to get things done as quickly as possible.
Part of the problem in the PvE community is that there are a lot of things that pass for "skilled" PvE. Complete the run as fast as possible, complete the run without "cheats" such as PvE skills and cons, accumulate as much loot as possible. Players with the different philosophies all try to claim that their way is the "skilled" way, and there's no way to actually resolve the debate.
This is what happens when there is no clearly delineated reward system that provides a usable metric for measuring skill. (The problem persists when there is a metric; see fame and gold capes. But those systems do help resolve these arguments.)
Myself, I consider it a waste of time. It's like golf; the scorecard has room for a score, not a story. Doesn't matter how you get it done, as long as you get it done. Given that, I prefer to get things done as quickly as possible.
Part of the problem in the PvE community is that there are a lot of things that pass for "skilled" PvE. Complete the run as fast as possible, complete the run without "cheats" such as PvE skills and cons, accumulate as much loot as possible. Players with the different philosophies all try to claim that their way is the "skilled" way, and there's no way to actually resolve the debate.
This is what happens when there is no clearly delineated reward system that provides a usable metric for measuring skill. (The problem persists when there is a metric; see fame and gold capes. But those systems do help resolve these arguments.)
Daesu
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Originally Posted by Martin Alvito
He's claiming that deliberately gimping your team (no PvE skills, no cons, traditional team structures, etc.) is "skilled" play.
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toocooltang
Try doa HM, no tank'n'spank, no perma, and no ursan
Xsiriss
Oh for god sake, there is no particular 'skilled' aspect of pve even in high end. You play around for a bit and get the jist of what to use and where as well as the jobs needed to be filled. One person's standard SF nuker setup is as good as anyone elses, this is not an fps where you control all aspects and positioning to the extent of it affecting your gameplay. The skills are in high pvp where everyone knows their job and can do it well, eg. a monk knowing went to kite and when to stop and prot...I hate the staleness of pvp so don't call me biased to pvp as I hate the elitist pricks.
For all you who go 'omg,anyone can spam CoP!111', anyone can learn a job in say the deep group or the old B/P, only with CoP people aren't forced into using a professions that has managed to reach that place (unless they're a warriro or paragon of course). This is build wars, pve 'skill' goes as far as looking at the current meta on wiki and understanding it. Again I don't really use CoP unless on a perma so I really don't have a strong opinion on its use.
For all you who go 'omg,anyone can spam CoP!111', anyone can learn a job in say the deep group or the old B/P, only with CoP people aren't forced into using a professions that has managed to reach that place (unless they're a warriro or paragon of course). This is build wars, pve 'skill' goes as far as looking at the current meta on wiki and understanding it. Again I don't really use CoP unless on a perma so I really don't have a strong opinion on its use.
![[Morkai]](/static/static/../Img/avatar144860_1.gif){kind=avatar}
[Morkai]
Voltaic Spear Farms are High End PvE now?
MetalMan
didn't you hear about that morkai?
i farm baddies
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Originally Posted by [Morkai]
Voltaic Spear Farms are High End PvE now?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by toocooltang
Try doa HM, no tank'n'spank, no perma, and no ursan
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finally, the only skill in guildwars is in pvp. congrats you played honorable balanced against npcs, u r gud.
Yelling @ Cats
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Originally Posted by i farm baddies
finally, the only skill in guildwars is in pvp. congrats you played honorable balanced against npcs, u r gud.
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i farm baddies
example: you'd rather do something with pve balanced (ya your gay) that takes a long time, rather than abusing op skills and clearing through it.
google efficiency plox
google efficiency plox
GhostKairi
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Originally Posted by i farm baddies
imo if you complete a dungeon or mission or uw/fow or anything that has the chance of dropping a high priced weapon is "high-end". as said by guru's own high end section of the forum for items priced at 100k+
just to say you did it? finally, the only skill in guildwars is in pvp. congrats you played honorable balanced against npcs, u r gud. |
Red Sand
My interest in PvE significantly reduced when I couldn't get a group cause I wasn't max Ursan; when I had to figure out how to be a Cryer using a Mesmer secondary; when I got told I needed to level up a Sin so I could hang out with the cool people and farm this dungeon or that.
Thank Balthazar for PvP.
The only stat that counts in PvE is Mobs Killed Per Hour. When Anet makes a change that reduces that significantly => QQ
/hands out tissues.
In the end, The high end farmers will adjust their tactics and figure out the next cookie cutter farm build and establish it as the "PvE Meta". No big deal.
Thank Balthazar for PvP.
The only stat that counts in PvE is Mobs Killed Per Hour. When Anet makes a change that reduces that significantly => QQ
/hands out tissues.
In the end, The high end farmers will adjust their tactics and figure out the next cookie cutter farm build and establish it as the "PvE Meta". No big deal.
arcanemacabre
I am reminded of this image when I read this thread:
i farm baddies
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Originally Posted by GhostKairi
So your saying, if i could solo UW HM in 20minutes without Cons or Shadow Form, that i would have no skill, because its not against other players? u r a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing retard. Go rethink your logic mate.
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Yelling @ Cats
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Originally Posted by i farm baddies
google efficiency plox
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Why give up playing a build that you enjoy, to achieve nothing faster?
What is the light at the end of the tunnel for running UW faster? Ectos to buy weapons that do the same damage as the ones that I can get at a collector within 5 minutes?
Betrayer of Wind
Quote:
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Originally Posted by i farm baddies
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http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/o...g?t=1245451790
HawkofStorms
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Originally Posted by i farm baddies
example: you'd rather do something with pve balanced (ya your gay) that takes a long time, rather than abusing op skills and clearing through it.
google efficiency plox |
Rolling your face on a keyboard to zip through elite areas by mashing 1, 2, 3 isn't enjoyable. If you are playing to beat dungeons to get phat loot, you are playing the wrong game.
ChocoboLIVE
To those who say 1 2 3 are noob. On fighting games, what is the different between highest diffecult cpu and a pro player?
Martin Alvito
Which gets back to my point: you all can scream at each other for days, but since your opinions are precisely that (with no basis in fact that would permit resolution), the discussion is going nowhere.
+1 internets to arcanemacabre for winning the thread. That one is perfectly descriptive, and a cut above the usual guru thread pic.
/requestlock
+1 internets to arcanemacabre for winning the thread. That one is perfectly descriptive, and a cut above the usual guru thread pic.
/requestlock
GhostKairi
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Originally Posted by i farm baddies
do it then
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Hailey Anne
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Originally Posted by HawkofStorms
Google fun.
Rolling your face on a keyboard to zip through elite areas by mashing 1, 2, 3 isn't enjoyable. If you are playing to beat dungeons to get phat loot, you are playing the wrong game. |
You really think playing a balanced build istn still just button smashing?
Think again.
Instead of pushing 1,2,3 you're pushing maybe 1,5,3 wtf cares youre still button smashing. PvE does NOT take skill period so why the need to ruin peoples fun in the game when it doesnt affect you in the least. Except maybe your little e-peen.
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Originally Posted by i farm baddies
finally, the only skill in guildwars is in pvp. congrats you played honorable balanced against npcs, u r gud.
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So stop screwing with peoples enjoyment in this game. Guru is NOT the majority its a MINORITY a very elitist minority at that.
Warvic
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Originally Posted by ChocoboLIVE
To those who say 1 2 3 are noob. On fighting games, what is the different between highest diffecult cpu and a pro player?
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I just hope they nerf shadowform, because I want them to keep some challenge in game. the so called "elite" areas. and Economy is very bad imo
(Zkeys also ruined economy). ah well, it's to late now for that.
MrTickle
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Originally Posted by GhostKairi
...Just like Scientology
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[Morkai]
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Originally Posted by MrTickle
Please don't link make believe with GW
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MisterT69
Quote:
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Originally Posted by HawkofStorms
Google fun.
Rolling your face on a keyboard to zip through elite areas by mashing 1, 2, 3 isn't enjoyable. If you are playing to beat dungeons to get phat loot, you are playing the wrong game. |
ChocoboLIVE
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Originally Posted by Warvic
Ok sit down, and listen! If you like PVE you are going to play that. If you Like PVP you are going to play that. pvp players calling pve players a noob have no brains because, they dont understand that PVE players play PVE, because they like it. they dont understand they play this game for fun. its only a game (how much people have to say this?) And yes its a fact that pve is easyer, because AI is easy to counter. And its alot harder to counter other players skill in pvp (It's called skillz) I know PVE players who got GWAMM in 8 month and went on to the next game, they never touched pvp, because they don't like it!
I just hope they nerf shadowform, because I want them to keep some challenge in game. the so called "elite" areas. and Economy is very bad imo (Zkeys also ruined economy). ah well, it's to late now for that. |
Hailey Anne
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Originally Posted by MisterT69
Umm... that's WHY we play GW. Believe me you'd see hordes of people farming ele swords again if they were valued over 100k+XXe. Farming for phat loot is what pretty much defines GW PVE at the moment. Don't believe me, then see: Voltaic spear farm, UWSC, FoWSC, DoA, and every godamn dungeon this side of tyria. Why would I do a dungeon besides for rep points? Because I'm getting rewarded w/potentially sick ass drops (voltaic spears, demon fangs, silverwing recurves, etc...) Why else would u do elite dungeons if it isn't for phat loot?
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People may play through these things once or twice for the satisfaction of doing them but after that yes its for the loot, or the rep or w/e other wise there is no point to doing them again.
Yelling @ Cats
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MisterT69
Umm... that's WHY we play GW. Believe me you'd see hordes of people farming ele swords again if they were valued over 100k+XXe. Farming for phat loot is what pretty much defines GW PVE at the moment. Don't believe me, then see: Voltaic spear farm, UWSC, FoWSC, DoA, and every godamn dungeon this side of tyria. Why would I do a dungeon besides for rep points? Because I'm getting rewarded w/potentially sick ass drops (voltaic spears, demon fangs, silverwing recurves, etc...) Why else would u do elite dungeons if it isn't for phat loot?
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Especially people who spend most of their time on the game running gimmick builds so they can get these "fancy" weapons.
I life really that sad that you have to brag about some pixels in an online game, while sacrificing any enjoyment? I don't get the logic behind joining in on an assembly line so that you can get the same item that you had before doing so.
I can understand wanting to improve your character or something, but farming for hours on end for a weapon that isn't any stronger is kind of retarded. I just don't get it.
Sad Panda
Illfated Fat hit the nail on the head IMO. (And yes this is all opinion.. but how would life be fun if you didnt share and argue opinions?)
Anyone can mash their buttons, and anyone can mash buttons and make a gimmick build effectively. But not everyone can make a build or manipulate previous builds to make them more effective in different areas of the game. IMO High end PVE is taking a group of players to a High End area, and having them be able to efficiently use builds/create builds and successfully beat the area without wasting a huge amount of time or dying every 5 minutes.
Not everyone can do that, in fact most of the players cant do that. And hell Im no different, I can make good builds on some characters, and on other classes I suck ass. I can HB monk urgoz, but when asked to play another build in urgoz I get nervous. Nothing wrong with that. I play the game to have fun, because I like it. Not because I want to add inches to my e-peen by farming and getting good drops and accumulating millions of cybar dollars.
There is a huge difference between players who can use overpowered gimmick builds to beat an area in X amount of time, and a player who can use their analytical and thinking skills to make a run faster.
Anyone can mash their buttons, and anyone can mash buttons and make a gimmick build effectively. But not everyone can make a build or manipulate previous builds to make them more effective in different areas of the game. IMO High end PVE is taking a group of players to a High End area, and having them be able to efficiently use builds/create builds and successfully beat the area without wasting a huge amount of time or dying every 5 minutes.
Not everyone can do that, in fact most of the players cant do that. And hell Im no different, I can make good builds on some characters, and on other classes I suck ass. I can HB monk urgoz, but when asked to play another build in urgoz I get nervous. Nothing wrong with that. I play the game to have fun, because I like it. Not because I want to add inches to my e-peen by farming and getting good drops and accumulating millions of cybar dollars.
There is a huge difference between players who can use overpowered gimmick builds to beat an area in X amount of time, and a player who can use their analytical and thinking skills to make a run faster.
Spider of the UW
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Originally Posted by Warvic
I just hope they nerf shadowform, because I want them to keep some challenge in game. the so called "elite" areas. and Economy is very bad imo
(Zkeys also ruined economy). ah well, it's to late now for that. |
You do releases that just because you have SF that does not mean you block all damage. A sf tank does not work in all areas ans touch skills and other skills and go through. You say And being able to run a solo UW run to farm ectos using SF build is not that easy. It actually take some work and it is never 100% success. Those who can do it actually took time to learn as practice it as it is all things in life. And that is how the world is. People practice doing something and get good at it and they are paid for the "expertise" in that line of work. So farming in "elite" areas or not, it still takes work and so they should be rewarded.
Spider of the UW
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Originally Posted by Yelling @ Cats
People who put value in fancy weapons that do the same damage as collector weapons make me lol...a lot.
Especially people who spend most of their time on the game running gimmick builds so they can get these "fancy" weapons. I life really that sad that you have to brag about some pixels in an online game, while sacrificing any enjoyment? I don't get the logic behind joining in on an assembly line so that you can get the same item that you had before doing so. I can understand wanting to improve your character or something, but farming for hours on end for a weapon that isn't any stronger is kind of retarded. I just don't get it. |
People likes how they look. Simile as that. Looks may not be important to you it seems but to other people, it does. That is the beauty of guildwars. You can play the game with crappy looking gear and do just fine. Unlike WOW where you NEED that high end gear the win the game.
Avarre
PvE is static, and about preparation/organization. There is a slight degree of mechanical skill required beyond that.
High-end and skill required are not related, due to the fact that parties can be set up different ways. Obviously it will take skill for a team with awful skillbars to finish FoW. At the same time, a perfect-skillbar party will never need skill to do anything.
High-end and skill required are not related, due to the fact that parties can be set up different ways. Obviously it will take skill for a team with awful skillbars to finish FoW. At the same time, a perfect-skillbar party will never need skill to do anything.