H/H better than real players true story

Yeah i mentioned this in guild chat, they fixed the hero ai but the real problem is human intelligence.

I gave up after a couple pug's and went off to HA.

Easily farmed like 1700 zcoins.

Didn't have much problem with pugs, especially if you make sure nobody puts up their fail monks on the team. I think the henchmen were great because they sometimes healed allies on the other team whereas for other humans it would've been much harder to manage.

Until they give it the same response as every other DoTAoE in the game its still broken. Its not even RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing close to how much things flee from Fire DoTs.

Sadly with Vizunah/Unwaking HM, i'd rather H/H it. It was such an epic failure making these dual party missions, the only saving grace is that a HM hench team from the other side have a very nice stat buff, generally making em more favourable than a pug imo.

But heros can't do PvE-only skills. Sometimes, if they're experienced enough...PUGS can be good, and mostly humans can be good too, depends on what it is, and who it is.

Only applies to the full henchie team, though. My team (three people + heroes) spawned with a guy who was h/hing with discordway, and it was really, really annoying because he seemed like he was c-spacing his team. Wow, there are three rits near you, and you go for the ranger... my friend was like '...is he a discordway bot?' I ended up occasionally jumping in to save one of his team - like dear dear Olias who camped under ROJ. Or the henchies scurrying around like headless chickens.

bad players are bad and good players are good.

can this thread be deleted now?

Benefits of heros:
You can put whatever skills you want on a hero, upgrade their armor how you choose, and give them the weps you want them to carry

Heros dont talk back

Heros follow instructions when flagged (for the most part, sometimes they like to leeroy)

Heros don't lag out, and keep fighting when you do

Heros are always available in PvE, no waiting around for a group to do something

Heros don't leech

Heros are as good as the player who configures them, and for certain builds that require quick reaction, they outmatch real players by a long shot.

They run out of AoE more often than noobs

Downsides of heros:
If you dont know the heros class personally, you're going to give them a bad build and they will fail

they can't run specialty builds for farming b/c their AI isn't that advanced

they do tend to stay in AoE

they don't know what pre-protting is, you have to do it manually

They will let themselves die to get to where you flag them (most of the time)

*I know I didn't cover everything 100% on both sides, but off the top of my head thats it

Heros are good to the point where they know what to do with the skills. But humans have a mind of their own, which is where they beat the heros even though they arent as good as the heros at using skills.

If you're good at micro-management, then heros might be better than humans for you.

Vizunah Square in general is just a nightmare.

It took me something like 4 tries to get my Dervish through it, because of the idiots on the other side (one attempt I was paired up with some level 15 A/E with similarly leveled heroes. I'm sorry, but with how easy it is to level in Kaineng, wtf are you doing, trying to run that mission at such a low level). Finally I bugged my friend into going on his assassin and starting on the local side so I could get through the stupid mission.

Only once have I ever had good luck in doing that mission with a random person, and that was doing it a few days ago on my Ritualist. I went into the Japanese district, hoping I'd get paired with henchies...got paired with a random person who apparently had the same idea I had, but he was competent with well set-up henchies and we had no problems :P

H/H is more consistent if you know what you're doing.

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n...Dove/gw088.jpg

Good PUGs are out there. This coming from someone who didn't PUG a Z-Quest for several weeks after the first few tries because of crappy PUGs. They're still not my favorite, but it can be a fun adventure and if they work, hey, they work.

Aye. Good players > hero/hench > bad players. Been known for years.

Heroes also mean you can configure your team to your liking (in most zones outside of Prophecies you can find henchmen to fit, although it might be harder in HM Elona now with Odurra nerfed). If you're good at putting team builds together, that can compensate for the lack of PvE skills. H/H groups also share your title rank in zones where that matters, which can be an advantage over real people if yours is above average.

It's exacerbated in two-team missions like Vizuneh and Unwaking because if you get an all-hench team on the other side, they're treated as NPC allies... which means they get buffed in Hard Mode. Plus I don't think I've ever seen a full hench team fail to get to the first cutscene in Vizuneh intact as long as your team does... while as we know, human teams don't carry the same guarantee.

Aw drat, the Japanese districts are getting more crowded. :P Seriously! I went in there with friends hoping to get paired with henchies, and ended up paired with a full team on the other side.

Sometime in the last year or so, I think it changed such that all dists combine for missions like vizunah and unwaking. At least I have ended up with humans on the other team, more than once, after starting from a dist, where I had checked both foreign and local, and they were empty.

As this thread has pointed out, hench teams always get at least as far as the first cut scene. In my experience human teams reach that point less than 50% of the time. So it's been kind of annoying since the change.

Oh, they do? I thought that too, but I figured I might have been wrong because I was expecting to get non-hench teams far more frequently than I did. I mean, it being the zmission of the day and all.

true for me.

First time 1 other player and their sab team, i played with discord team. The other team was a few real players and their heroes. My guy just went back and forth across the place and split from the group, which is the key to the success of the mission. The focus wasnt there, so failed.

Second time I opted to control my whole group, went henchies and my discord team. Other team was half n half, success cuz i stuck with the other team instead of trying to lead them.

This was true since about April, 2005.

Encountered a local team in Viz Sq only twice.
First was two players who both left.
Second was a lone assassin with hench. He wasn't playing too well, when we got to him his entire team was down.
So we fought the remaining foes, guy gets res at cutscene.
From then it was a breeze. I just kept my eye on him, gave him some great dwarf weapon from time to time. Since I was playing with three guildies (one imbagon) we had easy time.
Think he wasn't that bad, just overaggroed the first time.

Other story, also yesterday. Playing with two guildies in Urgoz's (with heroes).
All caster team :P
Taking long. One of them afk's a couple of time for smoke breaks.
Then a somewhat longer break, their baby needs attention.
I afk for roughly 30 mins to make and eat dinner. They also go eat.
Shortly after they afk to put the baby in bad and then to bed. After that their youngest son needs to be put in bed.
Then we went on with a couple of small breaks. This turned a ~2.5 hour Urgoz's HM (no cons except DP remover) into a 4 hour walk.

In those situations I prefer to take Heroes instead of human players to spare them the long waits

Heh!

Well my theory is is that it's only the people who know that mission and want to get it done quickly and competently that think of doing something like that, so at least it isn't so bad, right?

Really? Huh. Whenever I'm trying to make sure to do the mission with a friend from the other side, we usually use International because there's generally few enough people that we have no trouble getting paired up with each other.

cool story bro, i think i stppoed reading at time 2

Vizunah can be a pain with PuG groups, but then again, so can any mission.

I ran Vizunah in HM for the zquest on my ele, with my fiance. I go local, he goes foreign, 3 heros, 4 hench, same team composition every time we run it and get masters everytime. We build HM shiro books for our titles. Its a nice break from AB, JQ, and FA.

First sync attempt we get separate instances and miss each other. I got a Mesmer and h/h......who died just after the cutscene and of course we cant rez the other team. Epic fail.

He gets a group of 2 people and heroes, they made it through in just under masters time. Yay him.

Second sync attempt, no issues. We get same instance and breeze through the mission.

Moral of the story - some people suck, some don't. Sort of luck on the draw when you have to do missions like that. But yes, for the most part h/h are better than most people.

Editing: My spelling cause it sucks