Lol, a moebius/DB can fuel Discord better than a caller, with Scan you're hitting at the LEAST 80 per HIT with DB on warriors. And if you bring SoH and Judge's Insight, it'll be 150+, so one deathblossom=3 discords?
Golden fang+Asuran Scan are completely spammable.
Sorry to say but, Mark of Pain adds more DPS with a sin than discord ever will.
The closest thing I would ever run to a 'sit there' caller sin is a crit spear sin with AP
Best heroes for sin in general pve HM?
IronSheik
Super Igor
Learn to play Discord. 
AtomicMew
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Lol, a moebius/DB can fuel Discord better than a caller, with Scan you're hitting at the LEAST 80 per HIT with DB on warriors. And if you bring SoH and Judge's Insight, it'll be 150+, so one deathblossom=3 discords?
But let me add, learn the difference between a hero and player. Because anyone actually argued that discord hero can outdamage player MS/DB, amirite?
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Sincerely I don't understand the infatuation people have with AP callers to fuel discord necro trios.
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Discord is great spike damage. It is crappy sustained damage. Using sustained damage + Spike damage gives you the best of both worlds without any drawback. You said it yourself. Discordway is great spike, but bad sustained damage if nothing dies. People use AP caller because it goes with the theme. It's great spike, but bad sustained damage if nothing dies.
MS/DB of course, does work. You might even be able to a few areas that discordway would have trouble with because MS/DB allows you to do more sustained damage. MS/DB sin with discordway does work, but don't be fooled into thinking it's faster than an AP caller. The very fact that MS/DB is melee, and the fact that it takes ~1-2 seconds to even get into melee range, means it is slower.
There is no comparison. An AP caller can do ~250 damage in 1.5 seconds with norn shouts. EVAS does ~200 damage costing you 1.75 seconds and knocklocks.
On the other hand, assuming completely ideal conditions (i.e., everything shadow steps to you in melee range), MS/DB takes 1.75 seconds to do ~100 damage (asura scan + first hit)... and doesn't even prime for discord (condition req).
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Discord is great spike damage. It is crappy sustained damage. Using sustained damage + Spike damage gives you the best of both worlds without any drawback. You said it yourself. Discordway is great spike, but bad sustained damage if nothing dies. People use AP caller because it goes with the theme. It's great spike, but bad sustained damage if nothing dies.
MS/DB of course, does work. You might even be able to a few areas that discordway would have trouble with because MS/DB allows you to do more sustained damage. MS/DB sin with discordway does work, but don't be fooled into thinking it's faster than an AP caller. The very fact that MS/DB is melee, and the fact that it takes ~1-2 seconds to even get into melee range, means it is slower.
There is no comparison. An AP caller can do ~250 damage in 1.5 seconds with norn shouts. EVAS does ~200 damage costing you 1.75 seconds and knocklocks.
On the other hand, assuming completely ideal conditions (i.e., everything shadow steps to you in melee range), MS/DB takes 1.75 seconds to do ~100 damage (asura scan + first hit)... and doesn't even prime for discord (condition req).
Tenebrae
IronSheik
I'm done with this thread, it's like arguing with my 5 year old nephew, you're never right.
Discord isn't god.
Discord isn't god.
Super Igor
[QUOTE=Improvavel;4723708]So basically what u guys are saying is that a generic AP+PvE skills caller does more damage than a Moebius/Dblossom sin? Or than a GodSword Warrior?[QUOTE]
In those ~ two seconds of the spike, yes, max rank AP Caller has higher burst damage. You also forgetting that with AP caller you Discord spikes are faster and cleaner thats all that matters.
Also, FYI Godmode doesnt do allot of damage at all, even with Asuran Scan you be dealing ~60 damage to single target. Main reason to run DS/SY! is uber SY! spammage.
If you want an uber damage war build go WE Scythe.
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Discord is great for heroes as it allows them to bring great utility and still do decent spike damage.
In those ~ two seconds of the spike, yes, max rank AP Caller has higher burst damage. You also forgetting that with AP caller you Discord spikes are faster and cleaner thats all that matters.
Also, FYI Godmode doesnt do allot of damage at all, even with Asuran Scan you be dealing ~60 damage to single target. Main reason to run DS/SY! is uber SY! spammage.
If you want an uber damage war build go WE Scythe.
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Discord is great because it can take down a mob with pretty much one skill leaving 7 others pretty much free to use for anything, they are usually filled in with utility, defense and minions.
Quote: But their sustained DPS is kinda low. You dont need sustained DPS with Discord. One spike is enough to kill anything, at worst your heroes would have to cast Discord again but thats rare.
But while we are at it, Discord has allot of sustained DPS actually. I always have 15-18 minions running around, ebon sins and last but not least Discord spam, thats 100+ damage each cast x3. Not low at all.
Quote: And if it is true that the targets are dying so fast you dont need save yourselves why the hell do you have 2 discord healers? So I dont have to take SY! and take all three pve skills, ymlad, evas, fh.
One is primary healer, the other backs him up. Red bars go up quick, more time to Discord.
Another reason is that there is simply nothing better to fit in the slots. :P
Quote: In my experience, Sabway where the elites have been replaced by discord and attributes adjusted work much better than either originals Sabs or wiki discordway with an AP caller - they have the strong defense of both + the damage of both and your character is doing its role - in case of Moebius sin and Dragon Slash warrior that means a ton of sustained DPS.
I think you never ran Discord with a caller, that what makes you say this.
That setup sucks, because it wont do either job properly.
Like me and undreal have told you, instead of spamming Discord they spam hexes, hexes that are weaker than Sabway's, so whats the point?
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Because barbs+mark of pain is more damage than discord? Especially when coupled with minions?
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Point is it doesn't, most important offensive spell of my heroes is Discord, they dont have to cast any extra melee buffs or anything before that because the primer is on so AP always triggers.
IF, it happens that they for any reason would be reluctant to cast Discord (AI is AI, no matter how awesome) I have Discord bound to my num pad, giving heroes an order interrupts any other action they do. Quote: |
By your story you already managed to cast CA, run to your target, do some huge sustained damage and your heroes are still priming, oh cmon it sounds slow.
In fact your story sounds similar to what was happening to me when i run Discord without AP caller long time ago.
Quote: Any reference to "why are they casting hexes instead of discord?" is a pure fallacy because it can be counterd with "why are they casting heals instead of a discord?". No, because the thing is that they dont have to cast heals instead of Discord.
Also, your excuse for "hexes issue" is a fallacy too then, because it can be countered by what you said above, that you can cast several things at the same time.
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More interesting is that the pvx wiki includes 2 restoration necros. But any reference to use SY! and replace those heals on the second restoration for barbs is replied with "but why would you need SY!". Of course a player with SY! will say "why the hell do you need 2 restorations and you even run that damn monk hench? My heroes are using spears between casts of discord to trigger barbs and MoP!".
But really, why would you need to waste a pve skill slot for SY! when you dont need it? If youre being hit by something nasty it will be right at the start before you can charge SY! like sF, SH and other elemntal aoe's or would be armor ignoring like melee, life steal or holy damage like RoJ. Having two PWK is best counter to this, really, hence why I run another support resto. If your party simply cannot surive anything without the 100AL than youre doing it wrong. Quote:
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