Guild Wars 2 to have simpler skills?
Hoboparty
I heard GW2 is going to have less intricate skill combos... is this true? Does Arena Net intend on dumbing down the game?
Lady Syve
From what I understand, GW2 will have a smaller number of skills overall, but they will be more complicated. Actions and environment will now have an effect on skills, so jumping and activating a skill will have a different effect than just standing and activating that same skill. Or fire skills will be less effective in watery environments. That's what I understood from what Anet has said so far.
HawkofStorms
No idea. No information about the skill system, professions, etc has been leaked. Probablly just a rumor (in part due to all the comparisons to GW2 with WoW, and thus people are thinking GW2 will be dumbed down like WoW is). But we have no idea at all.
Gift3d
On an interview, one of the developers (forget which) said an error they made in GW was creating way too many skills, which obviously means they won't be making as many skills for GW2.
I'm sure somebody remembers what i'm talking about and will be able to link or something, cause i can't seem to find it.
I'm sure somebody remembers what i'm talking about and will be able to link or something, cause i can't seem to find it.
shoyon456
Yes, there was a press release that said there will be less skills in GW2 that will behave differently in different situations. However, I still find that is a way of dumbing down the game, because jumping just to use a skill seems stupid to me.
It'll also create alot of PvP madness, I think O'Brien called this "emerging complexity." I'll reserve judgement for how well/badly it is programmed.
EDIT: Anet= Good ideas followed by bad implementation
It'll also create alot of PvP madness, I think O'Brien called this "emerging complexity." I'll reserve judgement for how well/badly it is programmed.
EDIT: Anet= Good ideas followed by bad implementation
Helix Dreadlock
It depends...are they hiring employees that went to college?
dilan155
yeah they said, too many skills is bad, and they probably learned by now the headache of skill balancing, i like the idea of environments influencing the skills but less skills could mean less build ideas etc, if there is even build that is.
Winterclaw
If that means no chain-combos for sassis, that would be a welcome addition to GW2.
zelgadissan
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Winterclaw
If that means no sassis, that would be a welcome omission to GW2.
|
I think I remember the article Gift3d is talking about, but I can't seem to find it either :/
Darcy
http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2007/03/interview_guild/
"Speaking of running around the world, that’s something you’ll actually be able to do; run, jump, basically just dork around however you like. When you land in a new world, O’Brien explained, you don’t want to have to read a bunch of skill descriptions, you want to run around and jump and swing, so that’s what you’ll be able to do in Guild Wars 2. It’s meant to be a learn-by-doing sort of situation–rather than have overly complex skills that take an excessive amount of brain matter to understand, players will learn less complicated skills that they will be encouraged to test out in any situation they can think of. What happens if you use this skill while jumping, or that one while surrounded by monsters? Who knows? Give it a whirl and find out! Strain referred to it as "emergent complexity," and if it works the way they say it will, I shall personally send them each a fruit basket. Having a wide variety of skills in a game is great, but the amount of reading and memorizing you usually have to do to have even the most functional ability in an MMO is enough to drop me into a deep state of catatonia."
"Speaking of running around the world, that’s something you’ll actually be able to do; run, jump, basically just dork around however you like. When you land in a new world, O’Brien explained, you don’t want to have to read a bunch of skill descriptions, you want to run around and jump and swing, so that’s what you’ll be able to do in Guild Wars 2. It’s meant to be a learn-by-doing sort of situation–rather than have overly complex skills that take an excessive amount of brain matter to understand, players will learn less complicated skills that they will be encouraged to test out in any situation they can think of. What happens if you use this skill while jumping, or that one while surrounded by monsters? Who knows? Give it a whirl and find out! Strain referred to it as "emergent complexity," and if it works the way they say it will, I shall personally send them each a fruit basket. Having a wide variety of skills in a game is great, but the amount of reading and memorizing you usually have to do to have even the most functional ability in an MMO is enough to drop me into a deep state of catatonia."
bhavv
Of course, when you have like 20 something skills just to remove hexes and conditions, you know that there is a problem with having a few too many skills.
maxxfury
Yeah, a smaller pool of skills with less redundancy and overlapping. As bhavv said, do we really need 20 condition removals? or 30 skills that push redbars?
Less skills but with more uniqueness/variation between the skills seems to be a good way to go.
Less skills but with more uniqueness/variation between the skills seems to be a good way to go.
pumpkin pie
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Hoboparty
I heard GW2 is going to have less intricate skill combos... is this true? Does Arena Net intend on dumbing down the game?
|
Kyosuki
I just hope the new skill system wont be like the same you can see in many korean MMO's..
You'r Level 5 ; You can use FireBall
You'r Level 10 ; You can use Flamethrower
etc etc...
You'r Level 5 ; You can use FireBall
You'r Level 10 ; You can use Flamethrower
etc etc...
AKB48
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Kyosuki
I just hope the new skill system wont be like the same you can see in many korean MMO's..
You'r Level 5 ; You can use FireBall You'r Level 10 ; You can use Flamethrower etc etc... |
You're level 100, you get to use meteor crush!
You're level 1000, you can use meteor crush.[eh?]
You're level 10000, you can use meteor crush[wtf?]
You're level 10000000, you can still use meteor crush[f-this!]
......there wouldn't be enough names for all the level if the level cap thing is true.
But on the environment topic IMO the environment will probably affect the damage, casting, rc time, range of the skills, but I doubt there will be anything more than that, since then things gets REALLY complex and I'm not sure Anet can pull it off successfully and I doubt most of the players will have the energy/brain power to deal w/ it.
Megas XLR
I hope if they put in fewer skills they will be able to balance out those few skills flawlessly.
pumpkin pie
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Megas XLR
I hope if they put in fewer skills they will be able to balance out those few skills flawlessly.
|
they will have something else to worry about when GW2 comes out, the ability to run around and casting fireballs would be fun. Warriors would be so frustrated.
bhavv
So is there like going to be no level cap at all with infinite levels?
We can try and grind for highest level? Yay, plz plz plz no level cap at all.
I suppose that attributes will be capped but levels should keep on rising.
Running around and throwing fireballs everywhere and anywhere will be major fun, especially with world PVP enabled =D.
We can try and grind for highest level? Yay, plz plz plz no level cap at all.
I suppose that attributes will be capped but levels should keep on rising.
Running around and throwing fireballs everywhere and anywhere will be major fun, especially with world PVP enabled =D.
Bayushi Kyo
Anet stated in a press that guild wars 2 would have simple skills not part of the skill bar of 8. stuff like jump, swim, etc...tahts what they ment by simple skills.
refer
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by bhavv
So is there like going to be no level cap at all with infinite levels?
We can try and grind for highest level? Yay, plz plz plz no level cap at all. I suppose that attributes will be capped but levels should keep on rising. Running around and throwing fireballs everywhere and anywhere will be major fun, especially with world PVP enabled =D. |
It wasn't gonna have world PvP too (or at least I thought I heard this)... not that random kill crap I hate. I think they will make it somewhat mutual still.
Aera
All I hope is PvP+jumping=something good. I really do. Look at WoW PvP, jumping is one of the factors which makes it terrible.
refer
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Aera
All I hope is PvP+jumping=something good. I really do. Look at WoW PvP, jumping is one of the factors which makes it terrible.
|
"Oops, messed the skill up since I didn't jump first!"
"I only need 3 more jumps till I can use this skill!"
"That Mesmer prevents me from jumping! Now I can't activate skills!"
"That Mesmer makes me jump so fast I can't activate skills in time!"
"That Necro slowed down my jumping speed!"
Tender Wolf
I have no idea, due to the lack of information that's been given regarding Guild Wars 2. Personally I'm fine with the current amount of skills in game and how you just have to stand still to fight. It's uber annoying in WoW when you have to physicall turn to face the direction the enemy's in whereas Guild Wars does it for you. Makes it easy for multitaskers like me to still accomplish things in the game while doing other things.
The one thing I don't like about the current skill system is the limit of only 8 skills. One more elite would be ncie too but I could see why they wouldn't do it. I hope the environment doesn't effect the way skills work in Guild Wars 2, but like I said, there is no information yet so it's hard to tell.
The one thing I don't like about the current skill system is the limit of only 8 skills. One more elite would be ncie too but I could see why they wouldn't do it. I hope the environment doesn't effect the way skills work in Guild Wars 2, but like I said, there is no information yet so it's hard to tell.
Megas XLR
Quote:
| The skill system will be modified. There will be fewer, less complex skills which may behave differently in different situations, such as if the character is jumping or is surrounded by monsters. A system similar to the limited 8 skill system will be used. |
SUPERMAN`
We'll see in about 6 years or so.
refer
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Megas XLR
I like the idea of skills being affected if you're standing in water, surrounded by monsters, or etc... I agree that having to jump for a certain effect will just add a layer of frustration instead a layer of depth. How often can you jump, how much of a time window do you have, and where do I have to keep my finger to spam it? I think they have the right idea with the other stuff though.
|
1337 H4X
I hope if someone jumps and you run into them they fall over ><
Tender Wolf
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by 1337 H4X
I hope if someone jumps and you run into them they fall over ><
|
ssheretic
Perhaps skills like "Backbreaker" will be more effective if you jump first. I don't think they will make skills like "meteor shower" cast better while jumping.
Master Ketsu
It all comes down to implementation. An old sleeper hit Xbox game "Phantom dust" has gameplay very similar to both GW1 and what they describe for GW2, and the battle system in that game is absolutely brilliant. Likewise, there are a lot of MMO's out there that already have skills which take different effects in different environment's, and their battle systems are crap.
Arguing\complaining about a game we have yet to even see in game screenshots of is retarded.
The only thing that can be reasonably complained about GW2 is the possibility that release pushbacks/lack of further information way passed the date of promise is solely due to NCsoft greed of not wanting to "compete with itself" with Aion.
Arguing\complaining about a game we have yet to even see in game screenshots of is retarded.
The only thing that can be reasonably complained about GW2 is the possibility that release pushbacks/lack of further information way passed the date of promise is solely due to NCsoft greed of not wanting to "compete with itself" with Aion.
4thVariety
I doubt a reduction of skills will make PvP more accessible, especially when the number of variables to consider while using them is rising quickly.
Since GW players can respec their character at all times, there is nothing wrong with GW2 making more use of that and/or demanding from the player to really make use of that feature. There is nothing gained by only having watered down enemies that can be struck down by any arbitrary combination of skills.
Since GW players can respec their character at all times, there is nothing wrong with GW2 making more use of that and/or demanding from the player to really make use of that feature. There is nothing gained by only having watered down enemies that can be struck down by any arbitrary combination of skills.
zwei2stein
It obvious that anet and pretty much everyone saw this:
If you give people choice, they will not choose wisely and end up sucking and running dumb stuff.
There are about ~ 20 monk skills that make red bars go up on single target, but about only 4 being any good copared to rest. There is whooping 80% chance someone will choose of the other 16 gimping himself in process.
If ther are only one or two skills that makes red bars go up, you solved problem of monks choosing sucky bar because they can not choose to have bad bar.
And that is same for all the classes.
If you give people choice, they will not choose wisely and end up sucking and running dumb stuff.
There are about ~ 20 monk skills that make red bars go up on single target, but about only 4 being any good copared to rest. There is whooping 80% chance someone will choose of the other 16 gimping himself in process.
If ther are only one or two skills that makes red bars go up, you solved problem of monks choosing sucky bar because they can not choose to have bad bar.
And that is same for all the classes.
Longasc
The issue is that our limited GW2 information is mainly from the PC Gamer article of September 2007.
We do not even know if the 8 skills bar system is going to stay, how the larger, more "open" instances will work. We know jack shit about the game, and their vision and ideas can have changed considerably.
We know nothing. And we are left in the dark about GW2, no new information for ages by now.
We do not even know if the 8 skills bar system is going to stay, how the larger, more "open" instances will work. We know jack shit about the game, and their vision and ideas can have changed considerably.
We know nothing. And we are left in the dark about GW2, no new information for ages by now.
AmbientMelody
More =/= better, that's a first lesson Anet has been taught. I still think Prop had best balance and most interesting gameplay with core classes and 300+ skills. GW2 doesn't need more than that, anything above this number only multiplies number of useless skills, makes balancing harder and creates gimmick builds and classes.
Sleeper Service
dumbing things down is the only way to appeal to the most people while making them feel smarter.
Nemesis of God
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by refer
Jumping + activating skills seems horrible to me. I can just picture FA where everybody is standing in place and jumping for skills... that will look so stupid and I can also picture.
"Oops, messed the skill up since I didn't jump first!" "I only need 3 more jumps till I can use this skill!" "That Mesmer prevents me from jumping! Now I can't activate skills!" "That Mesmer makes me jump so fast I can't activate skills in time!" "That Necro slowed down my jumping speed!" |
But hey, that is good idea. In Mount & Blade, damage depends not only from the attacker, but from defenders speed to. For example if:
Charr stays at same place + attacker stays at same place and hits.
= less damage then
Charr runs towards you + attacker runs towards charr and hits him.
slowerpoke
physics in combat would be interesting. its pretty much the norm with most games these days and adds a realistic feel to interactions.
body blocking that could force your opponent back, or even interrupt a spell caster. better death animations and interaction with the environment.
body blocking that could force your opponent back, or even interrupt a spell caster. better death animations and interaction with the environment.
Brett Kuntz
Complex Situational skills are harder to balance, and in most cases, impossible to balance. They also add an unnecessary complexity to the game, increase the learning curve, and are a put-off to casual & new players.
If you create a skill that can only be used in one situation, and that situation rarely arises, then you have to make the skill extremely over-powered to compensate for the rarity of the situation. If you don't do this, then no one will use the skill. So you can either have A) A balanced skill nobody uses because the situation rarely arises or B) An over-powered skill people use sometimes because in rare situations you become extremely powerful.
RPG games do not need Complex Situational skills to be fun. Sure, there are some games with CS skills that are successful, but this does not mean you need CS skills to be successful, and this does not mean you will be unsuccessful if you do not have them.
To make a fun and balanced RPG game, you do need to use Simple Non-Situational skills that are largely free of any Skill Description. The Description may just read "Deals 10 Fire Damage" or "Deals 10 Physical Damage", very simple, no situations.
If you create a skill that can only be used in one situation, and that situation rarely arises, then you have to make the skill extremely over-powered to compensate for the rarity of the situation. If you don't do this, then no one will use the skill. So you can either have A) A balanced skill nobody uses because the situation rarely arises or B) An over-powered skill people use sometimes because in rare situations you become extremely powerful.
RPG games do not need Complex Situational skills to be fun. Sure, there are some games with CS skills that are successful, but this does not mean you need CS skills to be successful, and this does not mean you will be unsuccessful if you do not have them.
To make a fun and balanced RPG game, you do need to use Simple Non-Situational skills that are largely free of any Skill Description. The Description may just read "Deals 10 Fire Damage" or "Deals 10 Physical Damage", very simple, no situations.
Jarus
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Nemesis of God
I lolled.
But hey, that is good idea. In Mount & Blade, damage depends not only from the attacker, but from defenders speed to. For example if: Charr stays at same place + attacker stays at same place and hits. = less damage then Charr runs towards you + attacker runs towards charr and hits him. |
Gigashadow
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Longasc
The issue is that our limited GW2 information is mainly from the PC Gamer article of September 2007.
We do not even know if the 8 skills bar system is going to stay, how the larger, more "open" instances will work. We know jack shit about the game, and their vision and ideas can have changed considerably. We know nothing. And we are left in the dark about GW2, no new information for ages by now. |
I have my doubts about skills doing different things depending on whether you're running or jumping. That doesn't sound like a good idea at all. I`m not a big fan of combo skills in MMOs in general.