It's Nerf or Nothin'!

Everybody has their own perspective on the way this game should be, after playing this game 4+ years here is mine, and yes, this longwinded post is related to the OP's topic:

I absolutely hate that perfect items are so easy to farm up in this game, green and gold weapons in particular. You see, back in the day when chests didn't need a key or lockpick, you could play just about anywhere in the game except low level areas, get a purple or gold drop, then head to LA and sell the item. This to me was fun, it added to the "treasure hunt factor" of the game, knowing that no matter what you were doing you might get a drop worth talking about with your guildies (hey guys, i was doing the Bloodstone mission and i got a +30 sword pommel!!!). Its the same as when you get a black dye drop ANYWHERE in the game, it's awesome because you weren't expecting it. Then anet came out with the locked chests which always spit out a purple or gold item, it was at this time that I first heard the expression "merch food". Not long after that we got Sorrow's Furnace and PvE Tombs, which for the first time injected perfect green weapons into the economy.

For me this ended alot of the fun to this game. Because everything in this game is so damn easy to get, it makes most areas of the game absolutely mundane. How many times do you go vanquishing with the expectation that you might get an awesome drop along the way? This is why i don't mind the keg nerf. You should not be able to go and farm 30-40 gold(supposedly rare) items in an hour, even if they aren't the fanciest of skins. It was getting to the point that I was having a hard time selling 7 gold unid's for 4k in spamadan. While keg farming is definitely not the only thing wrong with this game, it is a step in the right direction. I'm surprised it took them this long to get around to it.

I say just nerf farming in general (55, 130, 600, SF, etc.), make all skills in-game cost 25 energy and have 90 second recharge to weed out all of the player's interest, eventually emptying out the servers in an attempt at mass shut-down. This way they don't have to pay for it's upkeep any longer! =P That'd be a step in the right direction.

Pull the plug, Anet!

Gotta hijack this thread. It's soo preposterous (READ: LAME) to nerf PvE skills because of PvP. But last patcfh, they were toooooooooooooo lazy to separate the two, so here were are.

It's more than pointless to nerf PvE, other than the Mesmer PvE skill CoP which was way OP. Other than that, it was just laziness on their part.

No need to nerf at this point, unless it's an OP build (CoP).

Shadow Form is on the hitlist, stop bringing that up as a point of comparison.

if all ur doing in this game is farming....go play another game. i have played this game since released and quit before nightfall because of ppl telling me this game was 'dead' and it 'sucked'.

after playing many other games, some competitively, some not, i have come to the conclusion that this is the best game for pvp ever.

even in its broken state its much better than alternatives

lol farming

They are not against farming. There is nothing wrong with farming.

Problem comes when things are too fast, and/or done exclusively with a few professions.

One character killing a some monsters in 5..10 minutes is not a problem. Killing them in less than one is a problem. 8 characters of 3 professions clearing an entire area meant to be done in more than one hour and a half in 15 minutes is a problem.

They nerfed it because....so many people did it. And the fact you only needed 3 skills to solo what was it....60 monsters in a little over a minute without getting so much as touched?

And I will tell you right now, budger wasn't put in to spam kegs for 'easy golds'
Why do you think HoS budger was nerfed? Why was SF budger made non spammable? Because you aren't supposed to kill shit that fast with no effort.

Still wondering?

Yea this is simplying arguing for easy moneymaking. Certain runs have been nerfed cuz of abuse, like the old HoS run also with the fast kegs. Permas are alrdy quite good enough to make your game income or try a 600 monk who can run almost every dungeon. Easy income still exists and just be lucky that Anet decided to keep them around.

kill SF bring some skill back to the game.

after a nerf they have a beer fest while reading the QQ comments here on the forum

Dude.. You know they buff more than they nerf. Also, keg farming was a retarded gimmick and I'm glad that it got nerfed.

Hang on let me remove that veil of ignorance from in front of your eyes.

600/Smite.
Permasins.

The only people who don't think these should be nerfed are farmers, as such we shouldn't give a toss what they want because all they care about is themselves. Perma has become a vital component of speed runs and 600 can just duo practically everything.

They should've been nerfed from the very beginning instead of pussy footing around them like the idiots they are. All it achieved was leaving general PvE in the state its in, a complete RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing mess. When they eventually do nerf Shadow Form they either won't do it properly for fear of whining/ragequitting or they may actually grow a pair and completely stop it. Sadly my moneys on the former.

60s Recharge, this skill is disabled for 60 seconds plx.

Permasin has been around longer than Ursan was. Im kinda curious why Anet would nerf pug groups (Ursan) & let the Permasins run rampant SC'ing almost everything in sight.

Why isnt there an outcry from the "community" that Permasins are ruining the game like they did for Ursan? I dont see a year long thread dedicated to permasins, or all those cool avatars with text over the SF Skill sayin "Abuse Me" etc.

Maybe Ursan was overpowered, it did bring Pugs back & got rid of most class discriminiation.


As far as the Ursan button mashing claim goes, isnt all that this game is....button mashing??? Weather its Ursan, Permasin, Terra Tank Ele, COP, all buttons must be mashed at one time or another, & theyre just as repetitive as Ursan button mashing.

there are some things Anet should consider for GW2, if they don't want to see complaints everywhere :

- nerf things immediately :

people are disappointed because keg farming has been used for months, I'm not saying it was not an exploit that had to be solved, but it had to be solved immediately

you give us things that may be too good to be balanced, leave then for one year, then nerf them, this is totally stupid

this applies to pvp too, it always took Izzy more than 3 months to solve problems in pvp meta, sometimes more, with many failed attempts, until he finally considers listening to what everybody is asking for, look what he did with soul reaping


- consider doing reasonable buffs :

try to offer new alternatives without introducing overpowered skills to replace those who got smiter's boon-ed

some skills got buffed correctly, but that's far from being the majority


- fire Izzy :

this guy fails at his job, and now he's going to screw both GW2 economy and balance before the release


the only place where you'll ever see a perma or a 600 is an outpost (if you're not a farmer, or don't group with them)

so, what's your problem with them ?

you can't afford this expensive fow armor or a q9 crystalline blade ?

let farmers farm, they have no influence on your gameplay

and enjoy the game the way you want, instead of telling others how they should do it

Oh, well said.

I've gained about 150K a month since the April update in fairly casual play and with no farming whatsoever (unless you count doing a zbounty with 10 characters, and I've only done that a handful of times - normally I do a zquest or zbounty once or twice if at all), and not including any gains for the XTH (and I didn't get any points for May, btw), nor the value of materials and other commodities I've accumulated. Maybe it's not great heaping piles of ecto, but... don't tell me that farming is the only way to earn income.

upier: Sorry, but to be perfectly honest I do think sometimes that maybe the Ritualist spirits are just a little too fast now. Obviously they were too slow before, but...

Try that with a Mesmer and see how far that takes you.

(And that's just the first thing that came to my head. Lots of builds require more finesse than activating skills indiscriminately on recharge, which is what I at least think of when I hear the term 'button-mashing')

OiC you are banned awwwww? Oh well I'll answer you anyways. It's really pretty simple as over farming leads to over inflation. Over inflation leads to higher prices for goods people want and those that DO NOT FARM like SOME players will never be able to aquire them. Except for buying gold online for real life dollars and Anet/NCsoft wants to stop that.

Over farming and inflation eventually would lead to EVERYONE having to FARM just to keep up. People don't like to have to do what everyone else is doing, but, in fairness regular farming for a few ounces of gold is much better than someone making 100k an hour on some easy keg farm run or UW shard/ecto easy farm run.

In other words if Anet/NCsoft doesn't curb the OVER FARMING and make gaining gold for EVERYONE at a more reasonable and equal basis of gain and spend then the GOLD FARMALOT FARMERS are the ones who CASH in. So they must take control of the balance of income and spend or they become the contributors of GOLD SELLING online.

You have to remember it is NOT About Individual fun it is about fun for the whole, everyone not just selfish you.

you're completely forgetting that farmers bring a higher supply of rare items in the economy, which tends to lower the prices

btw, people who play more and more efficiently will have more money, that's fair and logic

there are very few things in GW that are out of reach for the casual player nowadays, and very very few for a somewhat dedicated player (unded asian minis or old school low req weapons, things that cannot be obtained anymore), so instead of being envious, be happy, you can obtain anything you want in GW

Yeah they killed Urgoz
before it was a nice place to team up with pugs and kill the mean boss, now after the roj nerf nobody is there exept maybe a guild group passing throu

I hate farming factions with VQ -ing alone!

Disclaimer, yo: This poster agrees with the "nerfing" (i.e. balancing) of the game, just if you thought that I was ticked of them nerfing farming runs and whatnot.

What I do have a problem with though is the method to ANet's madness, and I'm upset in the sense that there isn't one. This is largely due to - you guessed it - permasins, and ANet's largely open feelings about them. This is confusing while on the same note they'll attempt to balance SoH, so it's pretty upsetting seeing how they do this process.

In direct reply to the op (why you banned D: ?), nerfing is used for two main things: 1. attempting to maintain variety (this goes hand in hand with buffing), and 2. keeping the game on the road the developer's intended, and what the road looks like is what we have *zero* clue about.

If SF gives you immunity to both attacks and spells with no movement penalty, then why does Obs Flesh have the movement penalty when you can still get hit by attacks? This never made sense to me after SF became perma-able. For those comparing SF to ursan I'm sorry but it still takes skill to accomplish nice smooth UWSC's. With ursan you could roll an orange back and forth over the kb and get kills

Lies. I've seen ursan teams fail before. SF you may not be able to 'roll an orange' over the keyboard, but it's almost as simple. You just mash 1-2-3 while doing whatever the other skills do.

Where is the skill again?

1) Sure, Ursanway failed all the time. Bad pulls or bad monking will get you every time. Loot's point is simply that stuff was going to die. After all, there are two facets to the game: killing stuff and not getting killed. If you fail to do the former, eventually you're going to fail at the latter. Ursan resolved the former problem with certainty.

2) You can tell players that fail from players with skill when you play in a team involving SF. All it does is lower the bar such that more "fail" players become "skilled". If you want to see skilled SF play, watch a player run a dungeon or act as the puller using SF. There are still places that separate the men from the boys, even with SF.

3) With the last SF nerf, having the energy to click skills 4-8 on the bar is the problem. The player's ability to resolve that problem is largely where you observe "skill" these days.

With all of that said, SF has needed a nerf for ages. I was soloing Sepulchre of Dragrimmar on the second day of the prerelease weekend, well before the Glyph of Swiftness and SF buffs that created the present monster. SF is broken, end of story.

Here's a concise list of things that you must avoid doing while clearing UW as a permasin:

1. Don't die - you are responsible for keeping yourself alive, not some Heal Party spamming monk. This happens all the time, i wonder why

2. Don't get a reaper killed - this happens all the time, i wonder why

3. Don't let friendly spirits get killed, this happens all the time, i wonder why

4. Don't let the Ice King get killed - this happens all the time, i wonder why

Here's a concise list of things you must avoid doing while in an all ursan team doing whatever:

!. DON'T OVERAGRO

Those rules still apply when doing Ursan UW though, so argument is irrelevant. You can't compare UW perma to ursan ANYTHING, because you can just as easily compare UW ursan to perma anything and say ursan requires more skill.

Both are absolutely skill-less. We all know it. Some of us just don't want to admit it. Try doing almost anything elite in GW these days with balanced, and see if SC teams have the skill to do it.

Yes, Keg farming nerf was pretty epic, mainly because I used it to help get the Wisdom title. I can fully understand why it was nerfed.
But what pisses me off is the fact that so many players used it to title-grind max wisdom, drunkard and sweet tooth SO EASILY AND QUICKLY and Anet did nothing about this for months! Seems a little unfair to the rest of us who didn't know about this or have the time to use it for so long?

Second thing... SF. Good, I agree it takes a tiny amount of extra skill now in order not to fail at it. But it still makes one class god above all others in this game. If Assassins can be god, why not all the other classes? Either remove SF from the game completely or give ALL classes god-mode.

Which brings me to Ursan...
Ursan probably was the closest we ever got to class balance in this game. The nerf was needed and we all thought Anet was on the right track at that stage... but then SF stayed. Where is the logic in that?

55 monking/600 smites has been around since the very beginning. Anet had plenty of time to nerf this into the ground. Simple really, when you think about it... Yet they do nothing.

The imbalance in this game is entirely their own fault because they simply didn't nerf things IMMEDIATLY after it was discovered. Browse the forums, check out PvX wiki and nerf the cookie cutter builds before it becomes mainstream, simple. The game would have been so much more fun then because people would have been forced think for themselves, make proper builds and use the available skills more effectively in a team environment.

Anet says Ursan forced people to get it, which was true, but it also let the bad people play in regular teams.

Ursan was the most pug friendly thing to happen to guild wars

Ursan was just plainly overpowered, it didn't discriminate in any way, except that the monks were the ones to patch things up when yet another fool Leeroyed everything. Suddenly every idiot was a tank, and still getting kills with it as well...

SF and 600 are a tad harder, and still not nerfed (yea OK, lootscaling, which hit everyone). CoP was getting close to the ursan stupidity, just mash '1' once recharged, and press 'T' for a fresh target if '1' fails. Wow. Left unchecked, it'd have flattened the game field, and no-one cared for skills any more. Ever read the back of the CD cover the game came in? Skill, not time played determines your fate.

they nurf it so that we stop playing and the servers are less burdened so that they can focus on GW2.

The reason GW2 is not out yet is because they nerfed it already so they could focus more on GW3 that has not been nerfed yet but were still waiting to see...

Oh, I just got word that GW2 skill

Thrash Sword Attack 6-12 damage while in a drunken stupor causes own knockdown and everyone else shares an ale...was nerfed where it will infact cause death to the one who uses the skill...

Wait..that was just a rumor...

This just in, GW1 nerfs are to balance GW2 Buffs so that GW3 will be out in short time.

you're all funny, anet doesn't give a shit about the economy, if they did they'd nerf perma. the only reason they don't nerf perma is too many noobs who rely entirely upon perma would quit the game.