Current status: Barbs 10energy 2 casting time 5 recharge-affects 1 foe...14 damage at 14 curses.
Current status: Mark of Pain 10 energy 1 second casting time 30 recharge affects adjacent foes....38 damage at 14 curses.
Notice anything different? the casting time, recharge, and amount of foes affected.
I want to purpose to change the casting time of both barbs and mark of pain, and the recharge on barbs.
Barbs:Casting time should be 1, not 2 seconds...because of the lesser damage, but only one foe affected. Recharge should be 10, 5 is silly.
MoP:Casting time should be 2, not 1 second....because of the increased damage, but affecting more than one foe, even if at adjacent range. In pve, most foes are adjacent if pulled right, and so are the foes in JQ, the npcs...ect.
It's silly to have foes taking more damage with a lesser casting time, and while the recharge is higher...assassin's promise can make short work of it.
I'm not QQing...just trying to make logical sense...not trying to kill it either.
Barbs....it's not right
Helix Dreadlock
Sarevok Thordin
Barbs affects the target
MoP attacks those AROUND the target.
In a PvP standpoint, it makes sense.
MoP attacks those AROUND the target.
In a PvP standpoint, it makes sense.
Helix Dreadlock
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Originally Posted by Sarevok Thordin
Barbs affects the target
MoP attacks those AROUND the target. In a PvP standpoint, it makes sense. |
and it does. Why make it 1 second to affect more foes and more damage...and 1 second to affect 1 foe with LESS damage?
Bob Slydell
They are two differently used skills in all. I do not have an explanation why the single target one does less damage.
Barbs hits only the foe you cast it on, no one else. Mark of Pain which is also a hex, hexes a target but does not hit the hexed target, only does damage to foes around the hexed target but not the hexed target itself.
Barbs hits only the foe you cast it on, no one else. Mark of Pain which is also a hex, hexes a target but does not hit the hexed target, only does damage to foes around the hexed target but not the hexed target itself.
wire dawg
there is nothing wrong with barbs and if u read the effect of barbs it only works with physical damage so when u combine it with say 100 blades it is very deadly in pvp..so the way it is now is the way it should stay
Helix Dreadlock
Yes, it IS physical damage, but you're missing my point. Why do more damage to adjacent foes, and less to ONE foe, when you can stack the hex on said enemy. Even if it is physical damage, regular spearing can takeout an entire shrine and mob. And I don't want to nerf it at all, wire dawg. I want to change the casting time and recharge time (barbs recharge only).
And Chrisworld, that's not what I'm stating. The casting time is longer when it should be shorter, it affects only one person with barbs, and less damage (not a problem). Problem is casting time. Why do less damage AND more casting time, but only affect one foe. Mark of Pain affects more than one foe, but has 1 second casting time. It's a little wacky.
And Chrisworld, that's not what I'm stating. The casting time is longer when it should be shorter, it affects only one person with barbs, and less damage (not a problem). Problem is casting time. Why do less damage AND more casting time, but only affect one foe. Mark of Pain affects more than one foe, but has 1 second casting time. It's a little wacky.
wire dawg
acctully u are missing the point when u combine barbs with physical damage u are doing more damage on that single target then u are with mop on an area the reason the casting time is longer is for the pvp part of it so u can spot the spike coming with it that is why it is a 2 sec cast
Nodakim
MoP is over-powered,I mean it almost can parry elite skills.Reduce the recharge to 10 seconds +make it effect the hexed target and it would be one of the best Nec elite skills.
Barbs has a too long cast time which is badly in pair with a low recharge.(Jeesh,you cast the skill for 2 seconds,wait 5 seconds and then cast it again for 2 seconds... no comment)
It also has miserable dmg,so they need to either nerf MoP,buff the dmg of barbs(something like 14...28)or reduce the cast +lengthen the recharge.
Barbs has a too long cast time which is badly in pair with a low recharge.(Jeesh,you cast the skill for 2 seconds,wait 5 seconds and then cast it again for 2 seconds... no comment)
It also has miserable dmg,so they need to either nerf MoP,buff the dmg of barbs(something like 14...28)or reduce the cast +lengthen the recharge.
SmokingHotImolation
You cant compare those two skills.. For MoP to work you have to have a ball of foes since it ONLY affects adjacent foes. Using MoP on a single foe will have no effect so i dont really see your point when you say "Why do less damage and more casting time", since MoP do absolutely no damage in single target situations.
Helix Dreadlock
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Originally Posted by SmokingHotImolation
You cant compare those two skills.. For MoP to work you have to have a ball of foes since it ONLY affects adjacent foes. Using MoP on a single foe will have no effect so i dont really see your point when you say "Why do less damage and more casting time", since MoP do absolutely no damage in single target situations.
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And wire dawg, add some periods in there, it helps people understand what you're saying.
And no, Mark of Pain ONLY affects adjacent foes. So no, you cannot spike make a spike with it buddy.
Antares Ascending
Quote:
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Originally Posted by wire dawg
there is nothing wrong with barbs and if u read the effect of barbs it only works with physical damage so when u combine it with say 100 blades it is very deadly in pvp..so the way it is now is the way it should stay
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Helix Dreadlock
Yes, but you aren't realizing my point.
[B]IT IS NOT HOW THE SKILLS WORK, OR HOW EFFECTIVE THEY ARE, IT IS THE CASTING TIME[B/]
There is no sense in affecting one target at casting time of 2, when MoP has a casting time of 1.
CAN I GET SOME SERIOUS PEOPLE HERE PLEASE?
[B]IT IS NOT HOW THE SKILLS WORK, OR HOW EFFECTIVE THEY ARE, IT IS THE CASTING TIME[B/]
There is no sense in affecting one target at casting time of 2, when MoP has a casting time of 1.
CAN I GET SOME SERIOUS PEOPLE HERE PLEASE?
Spiritz
Can we get someone who will seriously listen.
You asked a question and its been answered but you refuse to listen to the answer as you dont seem to like it.
I'd vote close thread
/close
You asked a question and its been answered but you refuse to listen to the answer as you dont seem to like it.
I'd vote close thread
/close
Bob Slydell
I think maybe MoP has shorter casting time because you want to get it out and on the foe, near foes quickly so that those foes dont kite before you get MoP out.. thats why it has a shorter casting time.
Mad Lord of Milk
Lol YunSooJin... what a joke. Just because you joined when the game came out doesn't make you more experienced than any of us. As for MoP and Barbs, I agree Imolation... these two skills aren't comparable because they are complete opposites.
SmokingHotImolation
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Originally Posted by Helix Dreadlock
Yes, but you aren't realizing my point.
[B]IT IS NOT HOW THE SKILLS WORK, OR HOW EFFECTIVE THEY ARE, IT IS THE CASTING TIME[B/] There is no sense in affecting one target at casting time of 2, when MoP has a casting time of 1. CAN I GET SOME SERIOUS PEOPLE HERE PLEASE? |
The Air Revenger
barbs has a longer casting time because it can be used more in PvP, mop in pvp is lol dumb but barbs is good in certin builds.
Also it seems every skill suggestion you make is terrible lrn2blance plz.
Also it seems every skill suggestion you make is terrible lrn2blance plz.
Unreal Havoc
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Originally Posted by Helix Dreadlock
And no, Mark of Pain ONLY affects adjacent foes. So no, you cannot spike make a spike with it buddy.
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FoxBat
Low recharge doesn't mean low cast time. Just look at order of pain. The long cast paired with short recharge means that while it is spammable, it takes alot of time/effort and is easy to interrupt. The longer MoP recharge means it's harder to counter but isn't used as often, and a 2s cast on a long-recharge skill doesn't matter as much from a "keep you busy" perspective.
Your proposal makes barbs garbage outside of AP builds and just makes AP builds stronger. Which really isn't what we need.
Your proposal makes barbs garbage outside of AP builds and just makes AP builds stronger. Which really isn't what we need.
poasiods
So, what you're saying is that since you feel like Barbs is underpowered in comparison to MoP, you want to buff it by giving it 1 second casting time... but you want to nerf it at the same time by extending the recharge time to 10?
First of all, Barbs and MoP have very different uses. MoP comes in handy in PvE if you chance to see enemies piling up together. Barbs, on other hand, allows you to go through individual targets or bosses faster. More importantly, when it comes to PvP, MoP is fairly useless while Barbs can enhance spikes very nicely. It's silly to seek changes in Barbs by comparing numbers with MoP, as they each are useful in different scenarios.
Barbs has the potential to output some serious damage in a spike, thus, the 2 second cast time to prevent it from being used to set-up spikes too easily. In exchange, the 5 second recharge time allows it to be used fairly frequently.
First of all, Barbs and MoP have very different uses. MoP comes in handy in PvE if you chance to see enemies piling up together. Barbs, on other hand, allows you to go through individual targets or bosses faster. More importantly, when it comes to PvP, MoP is fairly useless while Barbs can enhance spikes very nicely. It's silly to seek changes in Barbs by comparing numbers with MoP, as they each are useful in different scenarios.
Barbs has the potential to output some serious damage in a spike, thus, the 2 second cast time to prevent it from being used to set-up spikes too easily. In exchange, the 5 second recharge time allows it to be used fairly frequently.
angelsarc
Quote:
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Originally Posted by poasiods
So, what you're saying is that since you feel like Barbs is underpowered in comparison to MoP, you want to buff it by giving it 1 second casting time... but you want to nerf it at the same time by extending the recharge time to 10?
First of all, Barbs and MoP have very different uses. MoP comes in handy in PvE if you chance to see enemies piling up together. Barbs, on other hand, allows you to go through individual targets or bosses faster. More importantly, when it comes to PvP, MoP is fairly useless while Barbs can enhance spikes very nicely. It's silly to seek changes in Barbs by comparing numbers with MoP, as they each are useful in different scenarios. Barbs has the potential to output some serious damage in a spike, thus, the 2 second cast time to prevent it from being used to set-up spikes too easily. In exchange, the 5 second recharge time allows it to be used fairly frequently. |
Sniper22
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Originally Posted by Helix Dreadlock
Yes, but you aren't realizing my point.
[B]IT IS NOT HOW THE SKILLS WORK, OR HOW EFFECTIVE THEY ARE, IT IS THE CASTING TIME[B/] There is no sense in affecting one target at casting time of 2, when MoP has a casting time of 1. CAN I GET SOME SERIOUS PEOPLE HERE PLEASE? |
If I ever see mark of pain casted on a target... I'll just move away from that target. Bam thats 10 energy wasted that will deal 0 damage, GG. Barbs, currently run on OP Me/N fast cast curses in GvG, can create a lot of pressure and damage and it's reliable to actually deal damage on a target. Barbs is also strong because it has only a 5 second recharge while the hex duration lasts 30 seconds. A one second casting time would make this skill harder to interrupt and it would be more spamable, and much more spamable from those Me/N.
Antares Ascending
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Helix Dreadlock
Yes, but you aren't realizing my point.
[B]IT IS NOT HOW THE SKILLS WORK, OR HOW EFFECTIVE THEY ARE, IT IS THE CASTING TIME[B/] There is no sense in affecting one target at casting time of 2, when MoP has a casting time of 1. CAN I GET SOME SERIOUS PEOPLE HERE PLEASE? |
We are getting your point. You, on the other hand don't seem to get the point that most people don't see a problem. There are many skill that target a single foe that take 2 seconds to cast. Both spells have their uses and it seems most people see this. No, 2 seconds is not bad. If anything MOP should be longer...not that I would like to see that, but it would be a better argument.
![Ec]-[oMaN](/static/static/../Img/avatar8384_2.gif){kind=avatar}
Ec]-[oMaN
Do what you want with it in PvE, that is all.....
Chthon
OP's ideas are really terrible.
MoP on a faster recharge would be overpowered. As it is now, it's very strong with the elite slot and secondary profession dedicated to solving the recharge problem. Trading the recharge problem for a cast time problem that could be easily solved by mindbender would strengthen the skill too much.
Barbs on a slower recharge would ruin the skill. It needs to be ready to go once per monster.
Also, the long cast time on Barbs serves an important purpose -- it makes it much harder to time a spike. Remove that limitation and the skill becomes overpowered.
MoP on a faster recharge would be overpowered. As it is now, it's very strong with the elite slot and secondary profession dedicated to solving the recharge problem. Trading the recharge problem for a cast time problem that could be easily solved by mindbender would strengthen the skill too much.
Barbs on a slower recharge would ruin the skill. It needs to be ready to go once per monster.
Also, the long cast time on Barbs serves an important purpose -- it makes it much harder to time a spike. Remove that limitation and the skill becomes overpowered.
RotteN
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc
Can't spike with Mark of Pain? Here is a working team build that utilizes Mark of Pain and Hundred Blades to produce a devastating team spike and achieve a 19 minute clear of FOW on HM.
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The fact that MoP doesn't affect your target makes it useless to a spike build (since spike = single target massive damage burst). I don't see any problem with the skill either. MoP certainly doesn't need any nerfing, and barbs sees play as it is.
Don't try to "fix" stuff that's not broken.
Helix Dreadlock
==close request==
Nobody is getting my point.
Nobody is getting my point.
Tyla
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Helix Dreadlock
Yes, but you aren't realizing my point.
[B]IT IS NOT HOW THE SKILLS WORK, OR HOW EFFECTIVE THEY ARE, IT IS THE CASTING TIME[B/] There is no sense in affecting one target at casting time of 2, when MoP has a casting time of 1. CAN I GET SOME SERIOUS PEOPLE HERE PLEASE? |
If you think people just aren't getting your point, type it out in a different way until we "get your point".
gameshoes3003
Sometimes it's difficult to get another thing adjacent to your target with Mark of Pain.
And if no one is right next tot he hexed foe, it's a useless hex. But it has potential so you cannot spam it often.
Barbs on the other hand will also allow extra damage no matter what without an adjacent foe condition and you can spam it onto other targets.
So that's why the times are set as such and I think they are fair as is.
And if no one is right next tot he hexed foe, it's a useless hex. But it has potential so you cannot spam it often.
Barbs on the other hand will also allow extra damage no matter what without an adjacent foe condition and you can spam it onto other targets.
So that's why the times are set as such and I think they are fair as is.
WhiteAsIce
Barbs is easy to trigger - all you have to do is attack the hexed foe.
MoP is slightly harder to trigger - you have to clump up the foes for it to work. Since that requires more work, you're rewarded for doing so with more damage.
It's balanced the way it is now. No need to change. You need more work to get foes to stay in a clumped group. Naturally, you get better results from doing so.
MoP is slightly harder to trigger - you have to clump up the foes for it to work. Since that requires more work, you're rewarded for doing so with more damage.
It's balanced the way it is now. No need to change. You need more work to get foes to stay in a clumped group. Naturally, you get better results from doing so.
Enon
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Helix Dreadlock
Nobody is getting my point.
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Exactly.
FengShuiDove
Yes, everyone understands what you're saying but are rightfully disagreeing. You can't look at one aspect of two different skills and say that one is unfairly beneficial. Skills are balanced around all factors, energy cost, activation time, and recharge time being prevalent among them but not mutually exclusive. Here are 2 reasons why your argument (which I understand perfectly well) is flawed:
1. The skills are intended for different purposes. As mentioned and shown, Mark of Pain can be incredibly effective in team spike builds revolving around multiple hits on the hexed target in mob-heavy PvE areas, whereas Barbs can be incredibly effective in a PvP setting where the additional pressure it pushes on a single target can make or break a small spike or a push (this can also be said of Minion Masters and physical heavy teams in PvE).
2. The skills are fundamentally balanced by not only their casting time, but by energy cost and recharge as well. The point is pretty clear. You can't say Mark of Pain's 30 second recharge is negligible "because Assassin's Promise makes quick work of that." Sure, the skill has great synergy with Assassin's Promise, but Barbs synergizes well with physical heavy teams and allows you to bring an elite besides AP (think OotV for physical teams or Spiteful Spirit for a general hex/Curser).
Serious enough for you? Or does seriousness = agreement all of a sudden?
1. The skills are intended for different purposes. As mentioned and shown, Mark of Pain can be incredibly effective in team spike builds revolving around multiple hits on the hexed target in mob-heavy PvE areas, whereas Barbs can be incredibly effective in a PvP setting where the additional pressure it pushes on a single target can make or break a small spike or a push (this can also be said of Minion Masters and physical heavy teams in PvE).
2. The skills are fundamentally balanced by not only their casting time, but by energy cost and recharge as well. The point is pretty clear. You can't say Mark of Pain's 30 second recharge is negligible "because Assassin's Promise makes quick work of that." Sure, the skill has great synergy with Assassin's Promise, but Barbs synergizes well with physical heavy teams and allows you to bring an elite besides AP (think OotV for physical teams or Spiteful Spirit for a general hex/Curser).
Serious enough for you? Or does seriousness = agreement all of a sudden?