Proposed Shadow Form Nerf
Pugs Not Drugs
I think that A net should make it so that shadow form makes you lose all but 50 health (at 16 shadow) regardless of it being renewed or not. THis would make it harder to farm uw (charged Blacknesses) and other areas but not impossible.
Marzipan Marci
i'd nerf it like they did with Smiter's Boon.
IronSheik
Make deadly only effect half range spells.
king_trouble
If your mostly against a shadowform nerf then the gw community will just find something else or revert back to the obby flesh tanks
Chieftain Heavyhand
I'd leave it how it is and stop worrying about the .0001% who whine about it. 
Grim Aragorn
shadow form is just a crutch for bad players, nerfing it will just weed them out
kyzia diera
if u dont perma dont cry about it
GODh
Will the whining never end?? 
For a game like gw you need money to buy the things that you like. In games like gw farming is a very normal way of getting the money you need. Everyone with Factions can make a perma sin if they want to, so its also a sellingpoint for Anet (like us they need money too).
In the early days of perma sin i really enjoyed farmed with her. In between doing missions, quests and some AB i farmed some ectos' and golds (mainly for title). I enjoyed the farming because somehow i felt very powerful and i was able to buy things i couldnt affort before. Whats wrong with that?
Nowadays i have problems with timing SF (yes, i am getting old... or is that a "crime" too?) so there isnt much to enjoy anymore (slowly getting sick of doing the same quests and missions over and over again)... and yet i keep seeing people whining and whining about SF
/notsigned
For a game like gw you need money to buy the things that you like. In games like gw farming is a very normal way of getting the money you need. Everyone with Factions can make a perma sin if they want to, so its also a sellingpoint for Anet (like us they need money too).
In the early days of perma sin i really enjoyed farmed with her. In between doing missions, quests and some AB i farmed some ectos' and golds (mainly for title). I enjoyed the farming because somehow i felt very powerful and i was able to buy things i couldnt affort before. Whats wrong with that?
Nowadays i have problems with timing SF (yes, i am getting old... or is that a "crime" too?) so there isnt much to enjoy anymore (slowly getting sick of doing the same quests and missions over and over again)... and yet i keep seeing people whining and whining about SF
/notsigned
Betrayer of Wind
I'd suggest take out the loss health on end effect,and just make it non-mantainable,but maybe lasting a bit longer.That would make it useful for tanking and not simply destroying the skill.
king_trouble
Notice that most of the flame and "suggested" changes that are preposed to shadowform is mainly to destroy the skill.
I applaud you Wind, your one of the few people who actually want to make a change to it that would not destroy the skill
I applaud you Wind, your one of the few people who actually want to make a change to it that would not destroy the skill
zelgadissan
Ever since they made the form skill type in Nightfall, I've never understood why Shadow Form isn't a form. You could leave it the exact way it currently is, you could still do solo farms with it (used to farm Smites with the pre-buffed version way back in the day), and it would end all speed-clear nonsense. You could probably even remove the 33% less damage clause in that case.
Bristlebane
Shadow Form: Functionality changed to: "For 3...11 seconds, all hostile spells that target you fail and all attacks against you miss, but you deal 33% less damage. Shadow Form refreshes every time you land a critical hit. This skill is disabled for 45 seconds."
madsGW
too many threads about this.
dasmitchies
Bristlebane's idea rocks
vamp08
I'd reconcile SF's cheat-mode if they made these things happen: (assuming corresponding stats are at 16)
Defy pain: 35 sec. +650hp,100 armor and you take -45 damage as well as you gain adrenaline whenever hit whith a physical attack.
Obsidian flesh: 30 sec. +80 armor, all spells agianst you fail, no movement penalty
Vow of Silence: 25 sec. cannot be the target of spells, cannot cast spells, move 25% faster
Spell Breaker: 20 sec. enemy spells cast on target ally fail and you gain +3 energy per enemy spell failed
Mist Form: Exactly the same as the current Shadow Form
Defy pain: 35 sec. +650hp,100 armor and you take -45 damage as well as you gain adrenaline whenever hit whith a physical attack.
Obsidian flesh: 30 sec. +80 armor, all spells agianst you fail, no movement penalty
Vow of Silence: 25 sec. cannot be the target of spells, cannot cast spells, move 25% faster
Spell Breaker: 20 sec. enemy spells cast on target ally fail and you gain +3 energy per enemy spell failed
Mist Form: Exactly the same as the current Shadow Form
king_trouble
So your basicly saying that you want the game to become more unbalance (pve wise)?
Sub-Zero
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Originally Posted by vamp08
I'd reconcile SF's cheat-mode if they made these things happen: (assuming corresponding stats are at 16)
Defy pain: 35 sec. +650hp,100 armor and you take -45 damage as well as you gain adrenaline whenever hit whith a physical attack. Obsidian flesh: 30 sec. +80 armor, all spells agianst you fail, no movement penalty Vow of Silence: 25 sec. cannot be the target of spells, cannot cast spells, move 25% faster Spell Breaker: 20 sec. enemy spells cast on target ally fail and you gain +3 energy per enemy spell failed Mist Form: Exactly the same as the current Shadow Form |
vamp08
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Originally Posted by king_trouble
So your basicly saying that you want the game to become more unbalance (pve wise)?
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JASON626
SF was still able to farm back in the day without it being perma. Now its just silly how it can clear entire missions. The community was fine without permas before it will be fine without them again.
Regulus X
Just muther focking 50e/180r the betch! Problem solved! Anet's known for assassinating skillz in such a way to begin with.
Shayne Hawke
OP, I think you have a good idea.
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Originally Posted by Chieftain Heavyhand
.0001% who whine about it.
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Reverend Dr
Make shadowform a stance
Due to synergy with glyph of swiftness, deadly paradox, essense, and +20% enchanting it will be maintainable 100% unless the duration recharge are put to extreams. Making it a stance means the duration/recharge ratio could be boosted while still not having it be 100% maintainable.
Due to synergy with glyph of swiftness, deadly paradox, essense, and +20% enchanting it will be maintainable 100% unless the duration recharge are put to extreams. Making it a stance means the duration/recharge ratio could be boosted while still not having it be 100% maintainable.
MisterB
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Originally Posted by Reverend Dr
Make shadowform a stance
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"On Your Knees!"
Etc, etc.
Sub-Zero
Just buff other classes tanking ability's
rkubik
I would suggest doing nothing. I would rather the dev work on actual content rather than nerfing skills that people have a choice to use. If you don't like SF then don't use it or get run or helped by anyone using it. There are quite a few people that like playing that style and there are people that are lazy. SF will only get someone so far it cannot blow through every area of the game. I read the forums about how the perception of PUGs is bad and they are hard to find. IMHO it is going to be even harder to find groups if they nerf SF because many players will quit the game, especially the state and age of the game now. Players are just waiting for an excuse to leave or try something new until GW2 or a new game comes out. I just don't see why A-net would speed up that process. Just for the record I do a little SF but it is all solo stuff. I do not run people or do Speed clears so I really don't have a vested interest in this I just would rather the dev team create something fresh for the entire community. ~deep breath~
Marverick
How about making Shadow Form a form?
Lasts 10...80..90 seconds, this skill is disabled for 120 seconds.
Alternatively, all skills and attacks do no damage to you for 5..17..21 seconds. Recharge 20. That'll at least make it vulnerable to enchantment removal and interrupts. It would still be useable but you'll have to have a spellbreaker monk follow you around and thus it would slow down the efficiency of speed clears and stuff.
Lasts 10...80..90 seconds, this skill is disabled for 120 seconds.
Alternatively, all skills and attacks do no damage to you for 5..17..21 seconds. Recharge 20. That'll at least make it vulnerable to enchantment removal and interrupts. It would still be useable but you'll have to have a spellbreaker monk follow you around and thus it would slow down the efficiency of speed clears and stuff.
Spider of the UW
why all the whining??
is 600/smite teams not just as "bad". ( by "bad" I mean not dieing and making lots of money with it. [as many people target SF because of people making money])
600/smite teams run dungeons for like 2-25k each. can you imagine?
that is like 16k-150k per run. even if i take 1 and a half hours to run it ( that is the really hard ones) that is still alot of money.
and for those you dont perma, perma is not as easy as you think. it is not simply pressing 3 skills in order. You need to time it. That's not all.. if you are farming with it you got to do two things at once. it might seem easy..but it is not and it does take practice. just like 600/smite
And just because YOU cant learn it to do the same so you cant get the "cool" items, does not mean you have to ruin it for everyone else.. ( this is the feeling I am getting from the person who started this thread)
is 600/smite teams not just as "bad". ( by "bad" I mean not dieing and making lots of money with it. [as many people target SF because of people making money])
600/smite teams run dungeons for like 2-25k each. can you imagine?
that is like 16k-150k per run. even if i take 1 and a half hours to run it ( that is the really hard ones) that is still alot of money.
and for those you dont perma, perma is not as easy as you think. it is not simply pressing 3 skills in order. You need to time it. That's not all.. if you are farming with it you got to do two things at once. it might seem easy..but it is not and it does take practice. just like 600/smite
And just because YOU cant learn it to do the same so you cant get the "cool" items, does not mean you have to ruin it for everyone else.. ( this is the feeling I am getting from the person who started this thread)
Show Some Skin
Gosh! How many post on nerfing Shadow Form is there???
Anyway, i think whats gonna happen is...Shadow Form gets nerfed because of all the complaining. Then another build comes out that has the same farming capability as Shadow Form, but later gets nerfed because everyone thinks its unfair, ruins the game, overpowered, QQ, more QQ and more QQing. It will probably be a never ending cycle and the same people will be on a new post to get rid of the certain build
Anyway, i think whats gonna happen is...Shadow Form gets nerfed because of all the complaining. Then another build comes out that has the same farming capability as Shadow Form, but later gets nerfed because everyone thinks its unfair, ruins the game, overpowered, QQ, more QQ and more QQing. It will probably be a never ending cycle and the same people will be on a new post to get rid of the certain build
Braxton619
Well even if you lost that much health when renewing, you can still easily regain the health with the charged doing nothing to you. Use feigned. +80 armor and +7 regen.
vamp08
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Originally Posted by Spider of the UW
why all the whining??
is 600/smite teams not just as "bad". ( by "bad" I mean not dieing and making lots of money with it. [as many people target SF because of people making money]) 600/smite teams run dungeons for like 2-25k each. can you imagine? that is like 16k-150k per run. even if i take 1 and a half hours to run it ( that is the really hard ones) that is still alot of money. and for those you dont perma, perma is not as easy as you think. it is not simply pressing 3 skills in order. You need to time it. That's not all.. if you are farming with it you got to do two things at once. it might seem easy..but it is not and it does take practice. just like 600/smite And just because YOU cant learn it to do the same so you cant get the "cool" items, does not mean you have to ruin it for everyone else.. ( this is the feeling I am getting from the person who started this thread) |
We are complaining about the sheer NATURE of the skill. What most "NO NERF!" perma-sin supporters dont realise is that the skill makes you invincible...period...end of discussion.
600/smite is different, it is very possible to die running that duo. Ive been in CoF runs and have seen 600/smite teams get wiped from a simple KD. Shadow Form...what KD? You cant hit me beacuse melee and spells dont work.
And on contrair, shadow form farming is a hell of alot easier than any other type of farm. Try the W/E raptor farm and your head will explode.
Dont even calim your difficulty is harder than a warriors, because its not; you dont know what kind of shit we go through just to shadow YOUR godmode. In fact, we dont have one.
tonk
nerf SF and loose a huge part of the population thats left....
Chieftain Heavyhand
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Originally Posted by Show Some Skin
Gosh! How many post on nerfing Shadow Form is there???
Anyway, i think whats gonna happen is...Shadow Form gets nerfed because of all the complaining. Then another build comes out that has the same farming capability as Shadow Form, but later gets nerfed because everyone thinks its unfair, ruins the game, overpowered, QQ, more QQ and more QQing. It will probably be a never ending cycle and the same people will be on a new post to get rid of the certain build |
Leave it be and work on something else like addition content, buffing unused skills/professions or PvP balance.
Vamp I have no problem with your buff suggestions for the other classes in PVE, would rock IMO.
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Originally Posted by vamp08
What most "NO NERF!" perma-sin supporters dont realise is that the skill makes you invincible...period...end of discussion. |
Ghost Dog
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Originally Posted by Spider of the UW
perma is not as easy as you think. it is not simply pressing 3 skills in order. You need to time it. That's not all.. if you are farming with it you got to do two things at once. it might seem easy..but it is not and it does take practice. just like 600/smite
And just because YOU cant learn it to do the same so you cant get the "cool" items, does not mean you have to ruin it for everyone else.. ( this is the feeling I am getting from the person who started this thread) |
I choose not to, because you're abusing a broken skill created to please the type of people that shouldn't have thought of playing an MMO of any sort.
I choose not to because perma players have a fully loaded hall of monuments worth nothing because it was in a way given to you, and all of your achievements mean nothing to me because you needed perma form to do it.
Perma is so damn simplistic don't ever try to tell seasoned players about it's difficulty being misunderstood after the farming we've done in the past.
Shayne Hawke
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Originally Posted by Spider of the UW
implying that perma Shadow Form is not easy
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Also, there's no need to bring 600/Smite into this conversation, because this is not a conversation about 600/Smite. Whether that farm is overpowered or not won't detract from the fact that Shadow Form in its current state is too powerful.
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Originally Posted by tonk
nerf SF and loose a huge part of the population thats left....
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Devastating Flames
i agree make it so that skill can be used once every two minutes or something that will bring prices back up and missions harder again games to easy KILL THE PERMA RACE!! caps included
crazybanshee
Wow, another sf thread. Gogo beat that dead horse. Good players will find something else to abuse (how long did it take to replace cop? a minute?) Bad players will still be bad.
vamp08
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Originally Posted by tonk
nerf SF and loose a huge part of the population thats left....
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Most sins are complaining now becuase, yes, your class was terribad at the start of factions. Yes you guys deserve a say and place in GW, and for the most part many Assassin advocates have seen their class get better since its release up untill the start of their nerfs (Palm Strike).
Now that your class is threatened with pretty much ONE simple skill change, you all freak and claim every con-SF supporter is either:
A: Retarded and cannot SF farm/run (which any moron can SF)
B: Jealous (yes, jealous of godmode)
or
C: Claim it will ruin the game (if balancing ruins games?)
None of the above are true. The only true fact is that the one class with godmode is threatened and the people who are under the class are just WAY too stubborn to accept the inevitablilty that SF was a screw-up and only shares one fate. Yes, SF was a screw-up because it kept you sins' mouths closed when all you did was QQ on these boards.
Now look at it, we complain that the nature of the skill is flawed (inevitably "QQ'ing") and you guys have the audacity to call us out on complaining when not but just 2 or 3 years ago you were in our position...complaining about your gimp class.
Empathy is not only a mesmer skill but it is an actual word, look it up in the dictionary.
Chieftain Heavyhand
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Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke
All the terribad players that can't adapt to running a new build/farm? Yeah, sorry, nothing of value to be lost.
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The terribad players will be able to run the next build just as easily as every farming build out there. There are no farming builds that are impossible to run because if they are they are terribad builds. Every farming build takes advantage of that area's foes weakness, 600/smite isn't hard it does the same thing as SF builds takes advantage of the area's foes. There isn't 1 farming build that is hard that is why they are used to farm.
NoXiFy
NOX, pro skill balancer suggestion:
25 energy, 3 second cast, 240 recharge, causes double exhaustion:
For 0...2 seconds, you do +200... 600dmg with your daggers.
25 energy, 3 second cast, 240 recharge, causes double exhaustion:
For 0...2 seconds, you do +200... 600dmg with your daggers.
DoomFrost
I'd add:
"Hostile spells targeting you fail, and attacks against you miss x%....y% of the time."
Adding a percentage chance to fail and hit might solve the "god mode" problem. As there would always be that chance of a spell or a hit getting through.
"Hostile spells targeting you fail, and attacks against you miss x%....y% of the time."
Adding a percentage chance to fail and hit might solve the "god mode" problem. As there would always be that chance of a spell or a hit getting through.