I understand the paragon love. I really really do. But come on. This is insane. I'd like to draw your attention to the northwest corner of the Elona map called "the desolation."
This area is nigh impossible in HM now if there's more than 1 awakened cavalier or acolyte (and there frequently are).
Wait! I hear it. "Just bring frozen soil!" someone calls.
Alas, the desolation has another "feature." Much of it cannot be traversed by mortal man, you have to ride a worm. And worms can't use FS. They have a set build, so you can't even spec to deal with this.
Unbuff "We Shall Return!". Just a little. PLEASE!
Targren
MisterB
Just change the skill bars of the foes or the enemy spawns. There is no need to change the skill.
Targren
I can deal with that! Just something. Yeesh!
Arkantos
You mean, hard mode is actually challenging in the desolation now?
Good. Don't change a thing.
Good. Don't change a thing.
MercenaryKnight
Wait I got it... 3 2 1 spike cavaliers from wurms. Should be pretty easy. If not in wurm bring discordway and spike them down that way.
subarucar
I have no problem chewing through Awakened mobs containing multiple Cavaliers and Acolytes, each person in your party has a skill that takes off half of an enemies health, surely its not to hard to call a target, kill it and move on. Even with an enemy ressing, you should be killing fast enough to be making progress.
Mason717
Targeting a paragon is so hard... QQ more.
beagle warrior
i just vqed 3 of the desolation areas today, all u have to do is target the cavaliers first, then the acolytes. its really not that hard
Arkantos
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Originally Posted by beagle warrior
i just vqed 3 of the desolation areas today, all u have to do is target the cavaliers first, then the acolytes. its really not that hard
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The skill has a 30 second recharge, so even against groups with 2 cavaliers are easily dealt with if you can properly target.
MagmaRed
Only thing I'd like to see them change (if anything) would be to remove it from the Shout list. Make it a chant with a 2 second activation so it can be interrupted. Currently it rezes all party members within earshot, which is the same as Light of Dwayna. However, even at 0 Command, it will provide those rezed with 5% energy, while LoD gives zero energy. LoD has a 4 second cast time, and a 20 second recharge. So the 10 second longer recharge on WSR is balanced by instant rez?
Outside of WSR and LoD, the only other party side rez available are Lively Was Naomei and Restoration. 6 second cast on LwN and 20 second recharge, still zero energy for those rezed, and when you drop the ashes there is still a 3 second delay before the rez. Restoration has a 1 second activation time, so much faster for a rez, but you have to wait for the spirit to die for the rez to occur. Unless something kills the spirit for you (yourself or your opponent) it takes 30 seconds to rez anyone. And still, the rez is with zero energy.
I just think a party wide heal should be less powerful. Nobody uses LoD to rez because it sucks. Nobody uses Restoration or LwN (that I'm aware of) because they are bad options for most builds. But an instant party wide rez that provides more energy than any other party wide rez?
At least drop the energy to zero, but I'd like to see an activation time included to make it possible to interrupt.
Outside of WSR and LoD, the only other party side rez available are Lively Was Naomei and Restoration. 6 second cast on LwN and 20 second recharge, still zero energy for those rezed, and when you drop the ashes there is still a 3 second delay before the rez. Restoration has a 1 second activation time, so much faster for a rez, but you have to wait for the spirit to die for the rez to occur. Unless something kills the spirit for you (yourself or your opponent) it takes 30 seconds to rez anyone. And still, the rez is with zero energy.
I just think a party wide heal should be less powerful. Nobody uses LoD to rez because it sucks. Nobody uses Restoration or LwN (that I'm aware of) because they are bad options for most builds. But an instant party wide rez that provides more energy than any other party wide rez?
At least drop the energy to zero, but I'd like to see an activation time included to make it possible to interrupt.
Coast
we shall return is fine, and its 25energy.
Just kill em fast enough, thats teh key!
Just kill em fast enough, thats teh key!
Targren
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Originally Posted by beagle warrior
i just vqed 3 of the desolation areas today, all u have to do is target the cavaliers first, then the acolytes. its really not that hard
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(Not VQing, just trying Gate of Desolation HM, which adds a new dimension to combat since you can hurt the young if you're not careful)
MagmaRed's solution is ok, other than the fact that choking gas is random and smash is short range, but better than nothing.
Nerel
I think MagmaRed has some good ideas for balancing this skill a little, I liked them... on the other hand, I also liked Arkantos suggestion, and Frozen Soil.
The high energy cost of this skill is no deterrent given the rather nice energy return it gives (at least for average to large PvE mobs).
The high energy cost of this skill is no deterrent given the rather nice energy return it gives (at least for average to large PvE mobs).
Arkantos
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Originally Posted by Targren
When hero/Henching, it's not that simple. 8 players can be smart enough to focus fire on them, but even with calling targets, heroes have various issues in the spike department, from skill selection to pathing issues. The skill is OP even in players' hands, but I have no problem with that. They have the advantage of numbers. Best case, a player can res 7 with it. A cavalier can get upward of 20 up.
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Step 1) Kill it
Groups with 2 cavalier:
Step 1) Kill #1, #2 will res
Step 2) #2's WSR is recharging, you have 30 seconds to kill #1
Step 3) Kill #2
It really is that simple. If you can't do it with h/h, get a friend or two to help. And sure, a cavalier can res a lot of enemies, but if you continue trying to kill everything but the cavalier, you need to change your game plan.
Honestly, GW PvE is a joke. This adds a little challenge. If you're having serious problems with this, you should try and get better before you go into hard mode.
ajc2123
OMG something actually makes you stray away from C spacing?
Its fine as is.
Its fine as is.
Tenebrae
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arkantos
Groups with 1 cavalier:
Step 1) Kill it Groups with 2 cavalier: Step 1) Kill #1, #2 will res Step 2) #2's WSR is recharging, you have 30 seconds to kill #1 Step 3) Kill #2 |
- Bring Frozen soil on a Ranger
- Bring Vocal minority on the SS
Arkantos
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tenebrae
Do they use WSR instead of Signet of Return always ¿ , anyway , interrupts and denials are the key. Easy way :
- Bring Frozen soil on a Ranger - Bring Vocal minority on the SS |
Step #2) #2's WSR is recharging, interrupt SoR, you have 30 seconds to kill #1.
If you're in a worm, just keep killing them until you get the two cavaliers down.
Vindalan Mathios
I find it's easiest to just kill both cavaliers at the same time. Then the acolyte (if there is one).
Worms hit hard.
Worms hit hard.
Targren
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Originally Posted by Tenebrae
- Bring Frozen soil on a Ranger
- Bring Vocal minority on the SS |
Agreed, it's simple with at least one other person. Unfortunately, h/h get body blocked really easily, and are too stupid to kite around, OR attack the thing body blocking them(at least accomplishing SOMETHING). They'll just stand there getting beat on until some seemingly random timer triggers their counterattack response.
As for the claim that this makes it "a little challenging," I disagree. "Challenge" comes from good design, not dumb luck in getting choking breath, having your heroes not ball up behind two stupid necros and camping in its well instead of walking around them, and hopefully not spontaneously triggering "leave junundu" in the middle of the wastes (never could figure out why they do that...).
This isn't "challenge." This is "Nintendo Hard."
beagle warrior
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Targren
When hero/Henching, it's not that simple. 8 players can be smart enough to focus fire on them, but even with calling targets, heroes have various issues in the spike department, from skill selection to pathing issues. The skill is OP even in players' hands, but I have no problem with that. They have the advantage of numbers. Best case, a player can res 7 with it. A cavalier can get upward of 20 up.
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MithranArkanere
Linsey has already asked for outdated builds.
There is a wiki project about that.
I'll just wait for the change.
There is a wiki project about that.
I'll just wait for the change.
Targren
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Originally Posted by beagle warrior
i was using sabway and a couple henchies, it is that simple
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
Linsey has already asked for outdated builds.
There is a wiki project about that. |
Ah, good. It's already there. Mod can close/delete. I'll just hope they fix it.
beagle warrior
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Originally Posted by Targren
When hero/Henching, it's not that simple.
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Racthoh
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Targren
Alas, the desolation has another "feature." Much of it cannot be traversed by mortal man, you have to ride a worm. And worms can't use FS. They have a set build, so you can't even spec to deal with this.
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Tenebrae
Plain simple , read what arkantos said. While inside the wurm is even easier to spike 1 , wait for another to res him ( if theres another cavalier ) , repeat step 1 , kill the remainin cavalier and kill the ass of the healer ofc .
Lishy
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Originally Posted by Arkantos
You mean, hard mode is actually challenging in the desolation now?
Good. Don't change a thing. |
We have biggass junundu worm things that practically god modes us.
Leave it challenging
dusanyu
you have to Spike in PvE! Oh Noes
Glad to See Anet actuly made something in PvE Hard for a Change
Glad to See Anet actuly made something in PvE Hard for a Change
Axel Zinfandel
1) Keep it, or remove one of their rezes. Even for a 'challange' there's no reason that an enemy should have two rezes
2) Increase the recharge by a crapload. a party wide, instant rez should have a recharge time of AT LEAST 45-60.
2) Increase the recharge by a crapload. a party wide, instant rez should have a recharge time of AT LEAST 45-60.
Darkstar The Legend
Its perfectly fine how it is.
I rolled through all of desolation after this buff in just 2 afternoons. Only once or twice did this skill cause even a slight annoyance. Most of the time i didn't even notice the difference, but thats probably due to the fact i have the intelligence to target the enemies that have a res first.
I rolled through all of desolation after this buff in just 2 afternoons. Only once or twice did this skill cause even a slight annoyance. Most of the time i didn't even notice the difference, but thats probably due to the fact i have the intelligence to target the enemies that have a res first.
Targren
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Originally Posted by Darkstar The Legend
but thats probably due to the fact i have the intelligence to target the enemies that have a res first.
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Catchphrase
I think signet of return should be removed from the cavalier that's all.
gameshoes3003
/notsigned
Sorry, I really favor this skill as is... please don't change it...
Sorry, I really favor this skill as is... please don't change it...
AtomicMew
Some people are severely missing the OP's point (or at least mine ;o). The fact is, the desolation is an utter, boring piece of crap that should never have made it in release. 90% of the time, you are stuck in worms, where you basically C-space then BRB for 5 minutes.
The only thing that WSR! buff has done is force people to C-space then go BRB for 10 minutes. It's still an utter, boring piece of crap with no variation, danger of losing, or strategy possible. Not only that, but worms lag lower end machines straight to hell.
The only thing that WSR! buff has done is force people to C-space then go BRB for 10 minutes. It's still an utter, boring piece of crap with no variation, danger of losing, or strategy possible. Not only that, but worms lag lower end machines straight to hell.
Jeydra
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Originally Posted by Racthoh
You have 3,000 health and almost every skill deals a few hundred points of damage. You have two KD skills, one that only costs 4 adrenaline. You have a party wide full health res, 8 copies of it in fact. I'm not sure what the issue is with not being able to kill them while in wurm form.
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Cebe
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Originally Posted by Targren
Alas, the desolation has another "feature." Much of it cannot be traversed by mortal man, you have to ride a worm. And worms can't use FS. They have a set build, so you can't even spec to deal with this.
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Things die when you're in a wurm. Fair enough...if there is more than one Awakened Cavalier in a group, you might have to force one to use his shout before you can get properly stuck in, but it's still not that bad.
I only got around to vanquishing the Desolation after the "We Shall Return!" update and it wasn't nearly as scary as I thought it would be. I would go do far as to say the majority of it was easy in fact.
The above doesn't mean I am for or against this idea, I'm somewhat neutral on the matter.
Shasgaliel
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Originally Posted by Jeydra
Not to mention you don't suffer from DP ...
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