Game Design Bug

For some reason, my characters can never survive a trip between cities with enemies at or above my level. What gives? Who was the genius who decided to make a game in which the monsters make finding your way to a new camp or town impossible without being a certain class combination?

Here's how I think it went down:

"Hey Bill, I've got an idea for that Guild Wars game we're supposed to be working on. Instead of having monsters drop armor that the players can use, lets make them impossible to kill, place them in huge groups and have them drop useless items that can only be sold for minimal gain."

"Oh yeah! That sounds great! Maybe we should make it so only certain classes can even hope to survive traveling between cities!"

"..Hmmm there's still the lack of content issue.. why don't we just make a tiny level cap of 20 so we don't have to make any more armor, weapons or quests than we need to!"

But seriously though.. no other mmo has this problem. At max level in any other game I can travel between max level zones like it's nobody's business.

This isn't a bug and you aren't playing right. What are you doing, running by yourself between outposts? You don't ever have to use certain classes.

good thing GW isn't an MMO. You are max lvl, bring heroes and you can get through anything. If you can't you are bad since there is HARD MODE which can be done with one person.

Gonna assume you're a level three in a zone with level 20 monsters.

No really m8...get a group of henchman and dont fail by trying to run to outposts

Use heroes and hench.

Or go back to your classic mmorpg bullshit D:

Too much hostility in this thread..

My thought is that OP haven't brought heroes / henchies with him.
You should always think what you're facing:
If you're lvl20 you have to think you can somehow take out one lvl20 enemy..
You can't clearly take out group of those lvl20's by yourself, so what you do: bring allies to fight beside you.

It's Guild Wars. You're part of something bigger that can help you out. Use it.

meh ^^

The reason is simple: you haven't figured out how to play the game well. Do some research on builds for your profession, get yourself some max armor and apply some runes/insignias, and be sure to take a H/H monk (or two if you're in 8-person party areas) as part of a full compliment of party members.

OP must've never heard of ARMOR CRAFTERS.

Lv 20 ascended on my 4 chars. Never leave any towns without henchies. GL trying to fight your way to Marhan's grotto with henchies. Everyone who said 'you're terrible' go blow it. How can a group of 8 20's (with a shitty AI mind you) take on an equally sized group of lv 24+ ? Not possible. Explain why this isn't an MMO. If it isn't an MMO, why is it that NCSoft (the franchise owner) lists it as an MMO? The beginning of the game, as someone pointed out, is challenging compared to other MMOs, but fun and doable. As for late game/end game content, there is no question that Guild Wars is significantly more difficult than other MMOs. Forget fighting from beacons to droks with henchies. So much nonsense in all the posts I won't even bother debating. NCSoft doesn't make enough money on game key sales to fund a higher quality game, but that's no excuse for this level of difficulty.

You don't ever have to use certain classes.
-Savio

Ok.. so I don't have to play a warrior.. I just Have to if I want to get to towns on my own..

I suggest you get yourself infused. People have fought their way to Marhan's before, so it clearly is possible. The only thing that stands in your way of getting to Marhan's is you.

And has it ever crossed your mind that the reason you can't get to droks with H/H is because they're not even level 20?


http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Infusion

No you dont. You can slog your way through all campaigns with any profession. To say this game is too difficult is really stretching it.

The only time ive ever said wow this is just to hard was the titan quests. Limited party size made it kinda rough. Oh BTW i made it through those quests as well. I played more and whined less on the forumns.

Every single profession has solid effective builds that mop the floor in PvE. Quit sayin CANT and just do a little homework.


Cronk

Ok guys calm down maybe this person is new and hasnt grasped the idea that gw isnt a traditional MMO, to OP, Guild wars relies on you cooperating with people, playing in parties is one of the main foundations gw was built on, you should bring skills that help the team either by mitigating damage through damage reduction or through offense that will kill enemies before they kill you, you also have to bare in mind that GW is also based on tactics and skills not just numbers, and with this, the player usually has the upperhand, research the area you are going to using wiki.guildwars.com and find what skills will be most effective against what you are going to face.

I've VQ'd the southern shiverpeaks.
That's H/H in Hardmode.

It's clearly possible to get there H/H NM.

Have you actually TRIED fighting the level 24s with level 20 henchies? Unless you're fighting mursaat with uninfused armor, they are really easy. Just because it's a bigger number doesn't mean they automatically wtfpwn you. The only thing the level adds is slightly more hp. Anet expected people to be able to beat opponents without a full bar of skills and bad AI. And about henchmen AI, it's bad, but it's not the worst. They follow what you do, so if you stand in the middle of 5 mobs with henchies and the henchies aggro all five, it's still your fault for not flagging the henchies or pulling the mob. It was obviously not the intent of the designers to have you fight from beacon's to drok's because the henchman are level 10. Make sure you have max armor with runes and max damage weapons. If you're still having problems, you need to either /uninstall or stop QQing on forums and spend the time learning to play.

OP just needs to learn the game, just...like...the...rest...of...us.

I have got to be missing something here. I vanquished those areas using a ranger toon, three heros and a hench monk. I was not using any special builds like Discord or Cryway either. Just normal builds for my team. Let me guess, you are one of the full steam ahead "players."
Honestly, Take a look at your builds, make sure your skills work togther with as few attribs as possible. Try to keep your primary skills and attributes aligned, don't use more than three attribs. Make sure everyone has a rez, DP remover if you are unsure of yourself. Most of all, take your time. Let your healers and casters rebuild thier engery before you go charging off into death's jaws.

CRPG. They've never said it was an MMO ^^;;

agro control, take one group on at a time let things recharge and go for the next. Thats the way i did it and i can do pretty much anything like that.

@OP - Do you have Thunderhead Keep mapped? The hardest problem you face between Thunderhead and Marhan's is ice imps. And this is a case of bringing both hench healers and pulling one group at a time. Also watch out for the patrolling mursaat on that route.

We realize that some areas are more frustrating than others. But no area is impossible. Don't forget that everyone with a Tyrian Cartography title has cleared the whole Ice Floe area and many of us did it before heroes were in the game.

By the way, NCSoft had nothing to do with the development of GW. It's all ArenaNet's fault and we love them for it.

Funny, since I've gotten to every outpost in Prophecies with no trouble on all characters (bar Rt and Para, who I only made recently) using Heroes and Henchmen.

As for 8 level 20's not being able to take on 8+ level 24+ enemies...You must be using some retarded build, I must say.

A character and 2 H/H Monks can take on a group of 8 with a proper build, anything else is just easier and easier.

it's very possible. i hate to say it, but please stop sucking. each one of us had gone through the game multiple times, each going up against the same odds, and each one of us had done it without too much trouble. you need to improve your build, or improve your execution of said build, or both.

The key to this area has already been given to you and that's to have infused armour.
Apologies if you have already done this, all the henchmen here have infused armour so if you don't the mursat will cream you.

It was this part of the map that I became stuck when I brought my mesmer through.
My Necro had no problems so couldnt figure it out, some time later after playing my ranger and monk for a while I came back and the mesmer blitzed through.
All I needed was more experience in the game.

Anyway.

Infused armour
Henchmen chosen to compliment your characters build.
Use a bow to draw single enemies to your party.
Fight when and where you choose.
watch enemy movement patterns
Don't fight two mobs at the same time.
Know what enemy skills your facing and alter build to counter them.

Most groups aren't particularly large. Try pulling.

Also, the fact that you're upset that they don't drop wearable armor makes me wonder if you have max level armor already.
You realize that Ascension doesn't actually do anything in terms of how powerful your character is, right? You did read the dialogs for the primary quests and understand what Infusion is, right?
I'm not claiming to be a great player, but I certainly found it possible.

In some quests, I even had to kill a level 28 character with my level 20 character. All alone. (see: Norn arena, Cold as Ice quest for some examples) Yes, I did have to think about it and yes I did have to change my build around (even had to do research on tips on how to do the quests) but it's certainly possible.
Not a surprise. Level 10 henchies don't do well in areas designed for level 20 characters. I honestly don't know why Lornar's Pass and Dreadnought's Drift and Snake Dance explorable areas are there, but they're certainly not part of the primary storyline. If you're trying to go through Lornar's Pass with henchies, you're going the wrong way.
Rather than griping about how OMGHARD the game is and how impossible it is (which obviously it isn't given that a whole bunch of other people have done what you're trying to do -- get to the next town) maybe you'd want to actually give details. Tell us what profession you're playing, what armor you're wearing, what your skill bar looks like, which heroes and henchies you're taking.

Then people could actually give you constructive advice. But as it stands you've just made some very vague, easily refutable complaints. There are lots of people here willing to help with advice. There are probably even people who would be willing to party with you to help you get where you want to go.

Anet have made such a great game. Clearly given that Prophecies has been around for over 4 years, with still quite a large player base would suggest that it is a good game, with a very good difficulty curve. True, some areas are harder than others, but we've all been there and done that. You just need to be adaptable. Research into the difficulties you will encounter in any given area, and match builds accordingly.

I agree with the above poster. We've all done this, and would be more than happy to help you if you give us the team you're running with, perhaps the current level armour you're wearing, what runes you have equipped, what profession/build you're using etc.

Before claiming a game is designed badly, you should really re-evaluate the way you're playing it first. I'm not saying you're playing it wrong, but perhaps, with a little advice we could help you improve, and thus actually enjoy it more.

I smell a troll. How could anyone believe this guy is serious? I remember getting to Marhan's with hench before Factions was released, so no heroes or new skills around. Obviously he is trolling, or never learned the basics.

wow...seriously OP, do at least one of the following things:

A. research some builds
B. get max armor
C. bring full H/H with you all the time
D. don't over-aggro
E. bring a rez

honestly tho, if you really do have 4 characters who are ascended, and you're having problems getting from one town to the next...you might want to try a different game.

ok someone has been playin wow to long & when they have a game that takes skill they QQ cuz its to hard ... wow ...

Lol, try 8 players vs 10 monsters with Enraged (Doubles damage at 50% health) all are level 30 in Domain of Anguish, foundry of failed creations, hard mode. If I can beat it as a healer then you can easily beat southern shiverpeaks.

whisper me in game, Zodiac Ele, maybe I can help.

1. You have a brain. They do not. Thus, you can use strategy and target their weaknesses while they target randomly. Revise that to 7 20's with shitty AI + 1 20 with a brain and the scale tips in your favor.
2. Foes generally have less than full skill bars. This game is based around builds and skills. Your full skill bar is one of your biggest advantages.
3. Enemy groups are not usually as balanced in terms of offense and defense as player teams. The hardest areas will be closer to balanced, but many areas are not.
4. There are many exceptions, but many groups are smaller than your party, in the 4-6 range. Try pulling.


I'm willing to bet that any class could make it from droknar's to marhan's grotto with less that a full party.

Just felt like griping. Thanks to the forums for giving me an outlet. I do play wow, and I enjoy it, but I also enjoy GW. The characters are less cartoony, skill icons and color coding are top-notch. The dual-class system was a breakthrough and is applied well to the game. I play GW because the extra element of challenge is great after hours of annihilating murlocs or whatever, but sometimes it seems like the game is just trying too hard to make my life miserable. If you screw up once, its practically over. There is little forgiveness. The game transforms into more of a test than I enjoy. I get tested enough at school.. I need something that is a challenge, but that won't smother my enthusiasm. Maybe with a little more effort, I can figure it out. If you've got something negative to say, go suck a lemon.

Peace

Question seems to have been answered. Nothing more needs to be added here.

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