VSF Etiquette

expecting each player to provide one random cons per run to perma should probably be part of etiquette.

This is what I hate most playing as a Perma:

Getting REZ!!!! in the middle of the fight...not once, but twice!!! Anyone get rez more than two times during the fight?

Not like the BIP is close to the wall and I don't have full energy on rez. How can the person who rez me expect me to maintain perma SF when I have barely have enough energy for GoS+DP only.

Oh well...

I disagree with you about your etiquette on perma.

A perma DOES run the entire thing while others do barely anything but kill 1 mob.
This is VERY much in the nature of dungeon runs. Specifically frostmaw. Which is a 25k run even though a perma can't do it himself due to incubus.

RoJing is so easy. While the perma does literally everything but FS and pressing a button that makes things explode.
I heavily disagree with your statement, especially considering since there's a big reason permasin is the least played roll. The permasin needs more revenue. 100g per roj, at least.

i agree with the last 3 posts.

People need to understand that the sin's job isn't as straight forward as "run in a circle". I mean, the sin doing the run is also looking to get the run done and has all the intentions to complete it as well. A little patience for a sin who struggled with a bad spawn goes a long way.

Plus, Sins are more than always the one PUGs are looking for, since so many people are lazy to do it themselves (don't take offence, it's human nature and there are 7 other slots which require less skill and attention). So why should people berate the Sin? you need him, and it's easier to find another RoJ bot.
But the sin should likewise not abuse this power, so to say.

Ignore anything about a blacklist. it is simply childish people with their noses up high who were not happy with "noobs" and wish to waste their time feeling high and mighty. it's sad really.

What I've found as a Perma running VSF is that while cons aren't necessary to use for most spawns, its easier to just use them (I use a cupcake and a drink on each run). That way you will make it for sure, regardless of the spawn. However, this is quite expensive if you do it often. I've been doing this for nearly a week and burned through a stack of cupcakes and 5 kegs of aged dwarven ale.

Now fortunately I've met nice people that gave me kegs, so I only had to pay for one. But being a consistent Perma seems to be quite expensive. (I believe the current price of cupcakes is 80-100k per stack)

Now what my tips would be for the teams doing this are the following:

Perma: Bring that +15 -1 energy regen staff , it'll let you live even if you mess up. Take your time to pull them slowly into the corner (walk backwards if you use a speed enhancing consumable). And ping Thommis (its much easier for you to ping while walking than it is sometimes for the group to find him between the many foes) when you have the aggro ready in the corner.
One aged dwarven ale per run should do, by the time your first has ran out you can just time your I am unstoppables to avoid knockdown. (halfway your shadowform so it'll still be on while you recast your next and once you need to cast the one after the I am unstoppable will be ready on time)
For those who have trouble with choking gas: there is only one group with distracters in it, its the group just before the stairs. Make sure you cast your new shadowform and dwarven stability just before you aggro that group. Dash and heart of shadow to speed up the run, so you can get around the wall to cast your next shadowform safely. Use more dashes/heart of shadows to shake off the group (shouldn't be a problem).

FS: If you do bring QZ, mention it, too often did the QZ appear all of a sudden and I didn't have enough energy to actually shadowform.

RoJ monks/Nukers: Stay away from the wall whenever possible and follow calls. Doesn't sound hard but a shocking amount of players doesn't realise what staying at the wall does to the carefully collected aggro.

HB monk: Bring protective spirit, the assassin can and will die to a group of dying foes due to death novas among other evil aoe. Don't use it on him though until he has all the aggro and the team is ready to smite.

Bip: Check with your assassin first, but in my experience the only moment when an assassin needs a bip is when he is just ressurected, to speed up the run. Don't try to cast bip on the assassin while he's at the wall, chances are you die and the effort was for nothing.
Also, don't bring enchantments, it may get you killed by symbiosis all of a sudden. And some new moves Triel and I worked out: You can swap the spirits to avoid them from spawning all of a sudden. Like teams usually do when battling Duncan, you can use the assassin skill swap to teleport the enemy spirit away. And because its still alive, no new spirit will spawn at the original spawning spot. This way you will not die all of a sudden. (Don't forget to swap to a normal armor before swapping, or you will die before you can swap).

That all being said, accidents happen. So no reason to flame someone unless he/she is being totally ridiculous (ignoring you etc..) And there are plenty of nice people to meet during farms like this.

Many of the above comments are why I H/H the VSF. No leavers, no complainers, less stress. Wow, very similar to the majority of PUGs. Oh and Cynn is always very polite and thankful. I am also tired of being harrassed every time I go to the Grotto now as a Sin. Just because my prof tags says A/E doesn't mean I am a perma all the time stop inviting me!! End rant.

Perma's job is a lot harder than everyone else's. I've done every spot in vsf numerous numerous numerous times. While the perma uses his own personal cons/booze/etc to make the run possible, everyone else benefits, while he technically loses money, unless of course he gets a VS. And he does this for free... so. I believe if your perma is doing multiple runs with you, and he's fast, and gets the job done quickly and efficiently then the other team members, yes, should be donating booze/cupcakes/rock candies/whatever to him. It's pure courtesy. He's spending his money to help everyone else make money, don't be greedy. When I run perma, I don't expect donations because i know the nature of people. I don't even ask. But honestly, when people do donate, I highly appreciate it. If your perma is only running once or twice than there's no need to donate. And when I roj, bip, fs, w/e, I always donate to the good permas. Because I know for a fact, that their job is not easy. I understand that it's a team farm and the perma wouldn't be able to hit chest without the RoJ's killing everything (actually you can run this solo, but it takes longer).. but any role besides perma, has it easy, they get to afk for 3-7 minutes until the perma runs to slaver's, then to thommis, then they just spam 1,2,3 until chest pops up.

Anyway, It's just proper courtesy take care of the person taking care of you, while i agree with you that the perma should not DEMAND it, the other team members, should donate. Scratch my back, and I'll scratch yours. But sadly there's lots of greedy people in the world.

Even if you do 20 runs, and all you get is onyx and diamonds, not even 1 gold drop. You can still give the perma 20 firewaters and walk away with a 5k profit.

Just so you can see the math, you did 20 runs, and got 40 stones.

20 onyx
20 diamonds

40 stones x 250g (currently what they sell for) = 10k
20 firewaters = 5k

10-5=5k profit.

Dont be greedy!