i hate Vloxen HM

Dark Paladin X

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2007

30 Jul 2009 at 21:21 - 1

Vloxen is giving a freaking hard time in HM with my elementalist. I cannot get pass the mobs at the top of the hill after the mesmer boss (and fighting the mobs near the mesmer boss and the mobs at the entrance to the second floor was a hellhole, although i did happen to pull the mobs away from the mesmer boss). Someone keeps removing my conditions for Discordway and outhealing the damage. Yes, I was calling the targets and yes I aimed for the monk first (I even bashed ctrl+space multiple times in anger when my character is dead). And yes, I used flags to order my h/h to move move move and flee. What's even annoying is they have rez spells so I'm forced to change my secondary to a ranger to bring frozen soil. And I don't not want to get a run for this dungeon since the price is just ripoff and I can't form a group since my alliance is too busy and virtually no one wants to form groups for the dungeon.

After failing the dungeon, I ended up using 40 honeycombs and 4-5 powerstones.

Here is the build I was using:
OgJTgU2iVCZ4qaBUHSuMc46gUEA

the necros:
OANEUshd9JFzoAWFgGUPEQY0M9B
OAhkUwG4RFmTM7oaHQE4hhJ1+iB
OAhjUoGYIPxspQGbYO5kmjzLGA

and the henchies I used were Mhenlo, Lina, Cynn, and Herta.

I come to the conclusion that Vloxen in HM is impossible.

Side note: the powerstones were mostly obtained from quests and me farming the materials, the honeycombs were mostly from the farewell to gaile event.

Sindo

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2008

West Kentshire Pony Club [Pony]

Me/

30 Jul 2009 at 22:11 - 2

Of course! I can't do it, so it must be impossible!

Carboplatin

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2005

[PIG]

W/A

30 Jul 2009 at 22:20 - 3

discord way is not the best in there, their teams are balanced with good healing/hex removal.

Best is to run some holy damage, they take double. 3 smiter heros should give you a much easier time.

Ugh

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2009

30 Jul 2009 at 22:39 - 4

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Paladin X View Post

Vloxen is giving a freaking hard time in HM Hard modes are generally harder than non-hard modes. I think it's supposed to be like that.

Expherious

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2007

Wolfenstein Fuel Dump

Melandru's Elite Hunters [Hunt]

30 Jul 2009 at 22:48 - 5

omg impossible I H/H'd it with my dervish and some RoJ monks lol

riceangel

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2008

Floirda

[ASH]IGN: Tokyo Hina

W/E

30 Jul 2009 at 22:49 - 6

Honestly after a few wipes you should realize that its just your build that isnt working

s t e e

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2009

Death By[Emo]

Mo/Me

30 Jul 2009 at 23:03 - 7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sindo

Of course! I can't do it, so it must be impossible! I totally feel the same way. ^^

Demonlord Matt

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2009

Alliance Of Fides [AoF]

W/D

30 Jul 2009 at 23:05 - 8

but riceangel... i got my build off of pvx.. and its not working??? what is the world coming to???

Jeydra

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

30 Jul 2009 at 23:13 - 9

Considering the dungeon, don't run full Discordway. You'll be competing hard against their MMs for bodies and there aren't enough for a full set of 30 - not to mention there are 8v8 fights (e.g. at the start of the second level) where you don't have time to spawn an army first.

Run two spirit spammers + a MM. Make sure you have a micro'able Aegis / Displacement, and Rend Enchantments, and Protective Spirit, and Frozen Soil. There is only one healer for most mobs, so focus it down quickly (Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support, two Norn shouts, micro Rend Enchantments, call target for heroes to focus!). With Frozen Soil up the rest of the mob becomes mop-up.

This dungeon is, frankly, pretty easy for me to H/H now - and I'm an Elementalist primary.

Also see: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10375219

aga

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2009

England

30 Jul 2009 at 23:32 - 10

I'm pretty sure i've seen you in Doomlore spamming "OMG vloxen HM is impossibe, i use 40 honeycombes, 5 powerstones and discord". about 3/4 people said (including me) that discord doesn't work well in there. I even gave you some heroes builds that work wonders there, and you didn't respond. I think you should accept the innevitable, and pay for a runner. Or even better ask your guild/alliance for help.

Dark Paladin X

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2007

31 Jul 2009 at 00:32 - 11

Quote:

Originally Posted by aga View Post

Yea that was me, I'm trying to prove that the dungeon is can't be done at all without getting a run.

Quote: One of the reasons I increasingly hate Discordway is that lots of people seem to be convinced that it is the PvE build capable of vanquishing and doing dungeons, ignorant to other builds as well as the weaknesses of Discordway. Just look at ZQs for example, people will ask for Discord partners. As though 6-man Discordway is the most effective!

Discordway may be strong and universal, but it has several weaknesses you must be aware of before you attempt to apply the build:

1. Lack of bodies is the single biggest weakness of Discordway;
2. No hex removal;
3. Weak before you get a sizable army of minions.
4. All professions are locked - you need N/Mo, N/Rt x2.

Take a look at Vloxen's HM and see if you can identify problems with running Discordway. Do you need hex removal? Not really, well Arcane Conundrum is a bit dangerous but that's all, you can count on Mhenlo to Deny Hexes and remove some. Is there a lack of bodies? Not really, although there are Ooze popups and such - BUT you are facing Stone Summit MMs who will outcompete your own MMs to the bodies, since they have HM fast casting. If you can overwhelm the first mob you will also have a complement of minions that you can use to beat the next mob, etc. Still, you have to overwhelm the first mob first!

Then take a look at the dungeon itself. There's one painful mob to face on level 1. Can you beat that? What about the first mob on level 2 when you have no minions? It is honorable 8v8 there. Can you beat that? What if the Stone Summit Summoners beat you to the bodies, can you overwhelm them regardless? The Stone Summit have resses, can you deal with those?

What makes you think Discordway is the best build to use against this dungeon?

If you cannot imagine using other builds, then you will fail, and keep failing. But you can't prove that the dungeon cannot be done without getting a run, because it can, and here's a thread to prove it:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10378692

Of course the screenshot I uploaded there is rather obselete. The build gets through Vloxen's HM alright, but playing a player offensive character is considerably faster than playing a player defensive character. With the new Ritualist buffs every dungeon I've tried - and I've H/H'ed every dungeon except Shards, which I have not attempted - can be done with a player offensive character. Run two spirit spammers + a MM, and you can still slot Frozen Soil onto one of the Rits, and voila! Problem solved.

PS: Said this before, will say it again. Vloxen's HM is not the hardest dungeon in the game. Duncan HM has you facing the same mobs, except the very first one you face (i.e. before you get any bodies) has two Monks. And you need to have Swap somewhere, and possibly Signet of Sorrow. Forgewight HM is even harder. Summit healers healing Burning Spirits, and the terrain can be constricted, and you might have to face some mobs 8v9, them being the 9.

I kid you not when I say Vloxen's HM is reasonably easy. Compared to most of PvE it's pretty hard, yes. But it's still easily H/H'able, and compared to the hardest areas in the game it's really quite insignificant.

Shayne Hawke

Departed from Tyria

Join Date: May 2007

Clan Dethryche [dth]

31 Jul 2009 at 01:53 - 16

The only part about the dungeon that is hard with H/H Discordway is the first mob on the second floor, and that can be easily taken out by identifying an important target or two, killing it or weakening it significantly, wiping, and reapplying pressure until everything dies.

The rest can be beaten with this easy strategy: Hit U, flag your mob to where you think the next enemy mob will be before you get in range to see/spawn it, hold Ctrl/Alt, step forward a few inches until you see one or two enemies. Your team will destroy them, you wait a few seconds, creep forward a few more inches, and they take out the next two that you see.

The whole dungeon can be done like this. If that doesn't work, I've found another effective method is to pull a whole mob to the very edge of where they will follow you, and blast the enemies on the outside as the whole mob runs back and forth as you dash in and out of that boundary.

Kerwyn Nasilan

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2007

WHERE DO YOU THINK

31 Jul 2009 at 02:14 - 17

Didn't you post a thread about an impossible dungeon a while ago?
Are you aware of the definition of "impossible"?
And also "Discordway" is not the definitive beat everything, omgpunzed, lolwin build. So don't say you ran that and claim it to be impossible because it failed.

Dark Paladin X

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2007

31 Jul 2009 at 02:24 - 18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra View Post

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10378692

Of course the screenshot I uploaded there is rather obselete. The build gets through Vloxen's HM alright, but playing a player offensive character is considerably faster than playing a player defensive character. With the new Ritualist buffs every dungeon I've tried - and I've H/H'ed every dungeon except Shards, which I have not attempted - can be done with a player offensive character. Run two spirit spammers + a MM, and you can still slot Frozen Soil onto one of the Rits, and voila! Problem solved.

PS: Said this before, will say it again. Vloxen's HM is not the hardest dungeon in the game. Duncan HM has you facing the same mobs, except the very first one you face (i.e. before you get any bodies) has two Monks. And you need to have Swap somewhere, and possibly Signet of Sorrow. Forgewight HM is even harder. Summit healers healing Burning Spirits, and the terrain can be constricted, and you might have to face some mobs 8v9, them being the 9.

I kid you not when I say Vloxen's HM is reasonably easy. Compared to most of PvE it's pretty hard, yes. But it's still easily H/H'able, and compared to the hardest areas in the game it's really quite insignificant. Well I can't run RoJ necros since ANet changed the AI of the mobs that now recognizes it as an AoE damage. But I do know by heart that the dungeon boss itself is easy, it's just getting to him is really a pain in the ass due to Stone Summit Dwarfs that keeps removing the damn conditions and ressing (and one point the Stone Summit Dwarves rushed up and destroyed the FS despite casting it in a reasonable distance so that won't aggro it).

I think I did got a run on Ooze Pits for only 7k, that's a great deal there.

Jeydra

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

31 Jul 2009 at 03:03 - 19

Dark Paladin X

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2007

31 Jul 2009 at 04:49 - 20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra View Post

So you can't run RoJ, nothing stopping you from running the two spirit spammers right? I've already mentioned the build two times in this thread, yet you don't seem to have seen it ...

And use some imagination - if you can't use RoJ, what is the next, most obvious elite to use on a Smiting Monk? (Hint: UA)

What can you do about the Summit running up to FS and destroying it? (Hint: KD with YMLAD! and recast it once it dies)

If you prefer to get a run then by all means, get one. But don't come here posting that it cannot be done, because it can. I've done it before and I know how to do it. I can almost do the dungeon with my eyes closed, H/H. I can get you more screenshots to prove what I say, although "why should I?" is a question I can't answer.

If you prefer to keep complaining about how hard the dungeon is and how Discordway cannot H/H the dungeon for you, go ahead, but don't expect anything constructive to come out of it. Even if I try using YMLAD or some knockdown, another mob would just attack it quickly. And due to long recharge of spirits as well as casting time, there is a good chance I'd get interrupted. And are screenshots are enough solid proof that this dungeon can be done with h/h? Look, I don't to go through the hassle of having to change my heroes' build everytime I go to do some vanquishing/dungeon. I want a universal build that works prefect on all areas.

Jeydra

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

31 Jul 2009 at 06:11 - 21

What can possibly interrupt you casting FS in that dungeon ...

If you don't want to believe that this dungeon can be done H/H, fine with me.

If you're looking for a universal build that works everywhere - I just gave you one! 2 spirit spammers + MM works in more areas of the game than standard Discordway. But the build doesn't work perfectly everywhere. You could attempt to do DoA with it and you will probably fail. Or you could try some areas of the game (eg. Snowman HM) and you will find there are better builds. Whatever.

Let me tell you this also, I tend to stick with a certain build more than any other. Say I think I need more healing, but not so much healing to warrant a full-out Monk, then I load up a Smiter. If I need more damage and anticipate no bodies, then I load up either a Rit (if I'm not already using them) or a VoR Mesmer. And so on. My heroes already have builds equipped, and bar special requirements like Swap for Duncan HM, I usually do not have to change. The so-called "change my heroes' build" is just "choose which heroes to use".

Shasgaliel

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2008

[bomb]

31 Jul 2009 at 06:56 - 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke View Post

Dar Gulak

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Dec 2008

31 Jul 2009 at 14:15 - 23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Paladin X

I want a universal build that works prefect on all areas. Look, this doesn't exist, no build will work perfectly on all areas, you will have to change and make some tweaks. That is quite obvious on HM.

toocooltang

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2008

USA

ToA

31 Jul 2009 at 16:33 - 24

The challenge here is the balanced stone summit groups. I would not use discord here because its single target dmg and you need alot of AOE dmg. I would also try to find a friend to do this dungeon with.

Things you'll need in your team build-
1.) Enchantment removal - I use air of disenchantment + interrupts and diverson on a mesmer.

2.) Hex and condition removal- I would bring a monk with sig of judgement (aoe holy dmg) + smite hex/cond, and also add some prot to the bar. For energy on the monk bar add some inspiration interrupts.

3.) Non conditional AOE dmg- Things like FOC, defile/desecrate enchantment, VoR, Esurge, Searing flames. Basically anything that does dmg and doesn't require conditions to be met to do the dmg (i.e. no discord)

4.) Party wide defense- Aegis, paragon shouts (stand your ground, there on fire, etc), rit spirts like life, recup, recovery.

5.) Things to mess with the AI. If you bring a necro add suffering as a cover hex. The AI will spend time removing hexes and not healing. Bring conditions, you are an ele so burning is good. Same reasoning for bringing hexes

If you decided to bring a MM, make sure they have 1 bloodstained insig and a 40/40 death set. You should also include in there bar some death magic spells that do dmg so if they dont have minions they arent completely useless.

Tactics-
Basically kill the "defenders" first, they are prot'ers and will shut down your dmg. When I did this dungeon I targeted heros on them because its that important. Then go after the other healers, then the mesmers. Bring plenty of DP removal because the dungeon can be very very hard to complete without dying once.

If i did this dungeon on an ele I would bring the AP metor shower build. You should really focuse on having a high damage out put from your team. In a protracted fight agiants the stone summit you wont win because they have higher energy pools, armor, etc etc. Plan on going in and killing fast.

Dusk_

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2005

02 Aug 2009 at 21:32 - 25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Paladin X

I want a universal build that works prefect on all areas. So this thread amounts to "I'm lazy, so I'll use hyperbole to whine in the hopes that the game is made easier".

Originally Posted by Ugh

Hard modes are generally harder than non-hard modes. I think it's supposed to be like that. thank you captain obvious, I could have said a hellhole full of Stone Summit Dwarfs under steroids.

But at least give me some well-thought out feedback on the build I ran for Vloxen. I still want to use Discordway since I feel that it's the only build in HM that is smoothly capable of vanquishing and doing dungeons.

aga

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2009

England

31 Jul 2009 at 00:59 - 12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Paladin X

I still want to use Discordway since I feel that it's the only build in HM that is smoothly capable of vanquishing and doing dungeons. What did people ever do before discord? Used their own builds?

Discord really wont work well in vlox, try using a hero with Lingering Curse, barbs and MoP, a spirit spammer, and n/rt healer with weapon of shadow (this helps a lot here). And IMO Cynn is almost completely useless in HM, better off taking the 2 monks, earth ele (mainly for the wards) and Zho (as she rock the interupts)

But if you really want to use discord here, then you'll have your work cut out, as like mentioned perviously, the dwarf MM's create minions so fast your heroes wont be able to get many.

Anduin

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

Ice Dragon Berserker Lodge

31 Jul 2009 at 01:07 - 13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugh

Hard modes are generally harder than non-hard modes. I think it's supposed to be like that. True, hard mode should be harder. But, a regular dungeon should not have the elite Summit from Slaver's. It should have the regular hard mode versions.

Dark Paladin X

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2007

31 Jul 2009 at 01:25 - 14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anduin

True, hard mode should be harder. But, a regular dungeon should not have the elite Summit from Slaver's. It should have the regular hard mode versions.
Well, that's not the case with Vloxen, I encoutered the mobs from the Slaver's Exile >.< But I did find it ironic when I saw the "weaker" Stone Summit end up fighting the "strong" Stone Summit behind the first boss in the first level. Then, I had to deal with the strong Stone Summt that constantly rip me apart like 10 times >.< .

And the one with the mesmer boss in the second level was much worse.

Jeydra

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

31 Jul 2009 at 01:42 - 15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Paladin X View Post

Yea that was me, I'm trying to prove that the dungeon is can't be done at all without getting a run.

thank you captain obvious, I could have said a hellhole full of Stone Summit Dwarfs under steroids.

But at least give me some well-thought out feedback on the build I ran for Vloxen. I still want to use Discordway since I feel that it's the only build in HM that is smoothly capable of vanquishing and doing dungeons.