Revert Masochism

Masochism was recently changed to be a Soul Reaping/Death Magic copy of Awaken the Blood. It used to read: "For 30 seconds, you gain 1...4 Energy whenever you sacrifice Health."

This skill was a staple skill for Orders and Bips, but now has a totally different purpose.

My suggestion is to revert this skill and give it's current functionality to a different skill. If necessary, move a Death Magic skill into Soul Reaping if Foul Feast and Hexer's Vigor are really important.

This change really does leave orders spam firmly in dervish hands. And yeah, there was plenty more trash skills they could've chose to rework.

yes...i miss it badly >.<

Melandru's Shot was recently changed to be a mediorce skill similar to other ranger elites. It used to be an 8 second recharge.

This skill was a staple skill for rangers in PvP.

My suggestion is to revert this skill and buff other elites to give rangers more versitality. If necessary, give it a 10 second recharge.

On topic:
Not mocking you, btw; just QQing. There doesn't seem to be anyone in favor of the change to Masochism (If there are, I haven't seen them). And I don't play a necro, so I'm not very familiar with their skills/builds. But sure, I'll be fine with a change. This new version doesn't seem that useful.

orders has been ran fine for years, what does this change? revert to pre eotn orders build..

Dervish's got the wind prayers support skills they usually run nerfed aswell. I liked the old Maso, apart from orders it made for some fun and interesting builds, even if they were not effective. The new Maso is just another skill to throw on an MM.

Actually Vow of Piety was completely changed so it no longer fuels Orders that well anymore as well.

They changed the function of a skill that wasn't broken and turned it into a skill that's not as useful as people want to think.

Yes, revert it.

While I certainly miss the old Masochism, I'm also in love with the power on the new one. The bonus is pretty insane for a minion master. Ideally I'd like to see both skills co-existing (and I don't much care which one keeps the name Masochism).

would like it reverted also and while at it revert poison heart so I can use it to fuel my twin moon sweap

I missed it too.
/signed

I love this new one. It's a staple in any discord build.

i voted for no cos this new version imo is more useful. the old one was useless because necros have soul reaping which gave energy anyways, and as for dervish order builds, don't they get energy/hp from ending enchantments which orders spam all the time? why the need for more energy spells when ur getting free energy anyways. like majikmajikmajik said: orders has'nt died, u've just got to go back to older builds that worked just as good before.

This version is definitely good, but buffing minions and Discord was completely unnecessary. Masochism was a good non-elite alternative that helped fuel orders, which can get costly even with Soul Reaping. The Dervish version took a hit as well, with a minor recharge hit to Dwayna's Touch and a complete overhaul of Vow of Piety that build was hit even harder.

what was vow of piety's effect pre-nerf?

yes, i vote to revert it.

however, you can still run Cultist's Fervor and be perfectly fine for orders.

BiP isn't a big deal either if you run a paragon secondary with the energy shouts that they have.

this is like the [order of undeath] skill mechanic change all over again lol...

as a necro, i used the old [masochism] quite a bit and while i hate to see it go, the new masochism is fun to play with. for me it can go either way, and i'll be content. however, i think this would be a better solution...

> revert [masochism]
> give the "new masochism" effect to the pve-skill [signet of corruption]

the reason for this is that human mm's are a dying breed. i enjoyed it heavily pre-nerfs, and still do enjoy it. there is no doubt that mm's are already powerful enough, however they have been allocated as a hero task. [signet of corruption] is pretty useless, so lets let it see more use and have human mm's have a bit more fun, while hero mm's will be unchanged.

For 20 seconds, whenever you lose an enchantment, 1 ally in the area is healed for 5...41 Health.

And it was an enchantment, not a stance, providing nice synergy with Arcane Zeal, Mystic Healing, and of course Order of Pain/Dark Fury. While I'd love to see that skill reverted allowing a secondary class to outperform a primary has lead to issues in the past. Reverting Masochism, or changing some skill to function as it did, would be a good way to solidify the necromancer as the better class for Order usage.

They basically boosted discordway while nerfing the underplayed physicalway. Sigh to consider that in the previous update notes they said "we want to make buffing a single character more fun" .

Eh, actually, it's not that much of a buff. That 3% sac does quite a bit, my heroes are killing a lot faster but they're having trouble staying alive, in places that they should be getting little-no damage. It'd be great on a human necro, but heroes that redline and are always casting, it's not worth the +2 death and SR.

Signed to revert for the bolded part , masochism was fine.

Well that sort of skill is somewhat hilarious. It stacks with AotL for 11 level 21 minions or can add to the the damage from OoU if your monks don't mind the sacrifice.

Shame about losing the old functionality though. The energy gain on sacrifice was invaluable for sac heavy spam builds and the like - namely orders. I can run OotV while maintaining 3 enchantments as a human without Masochism no problem, but I doubt a hero can manage it with only one maintained enchantment now.

Lol are you really having energy problems with orders? Don't you remember when necros had to keep up both order of the vampire and order of pain up at the same time in b/p groups? Bip spam is harder now? Cmon it costs 5 energy. Don't for get a crap load of stuff dies in pve too for soul reaping. Here's some theoretical mathway. Let's say you have 13 soul reaping and you get your 3 deaths every 15 seconds. Thats 39 energy total or 2.6 energy per sec. You also naturally gain 1.33 energy per sec making that a total of about 4 energy per second. That is plenty of energy to cast one orders spell once every 6 seconds while using other support skills. Now maybe you'll have a little bit less energy because you put points in different atts or used different runes. I'd recommend both superior blood and soul reaping runes with prot spirit for some defense to help reduce the amount of hp you sac. You also have SoLS to help with energy and should have an energy pool around 50 that can be quickly regain between battles. Necros didn't have problems after the soul reaping nerf and before masochism. Bip also used to cost 5 energy and there were no problems with that either.

I believe in urgoz when I ran orders before masochism, I had a bar something like this. [Order of Pain][Blood Renewal][Aegis][Extinguish][Protective Spirit][Necrotic Traversal][Well of Blood][Rebirth]. There was plenty of extra dmg and party support to go around with the b/p team, giving a lot of physical dmg support. If you're also looking for physical dmg support, dont forget barbs and mark of pain.

Not quite exactly sure why anet wanted to change this skill, but at least its interesting now. Running up to 11 lvl 20+ minions or so can be nice. Makes them a little less squishy too.

BTW Don't forget vampiric horrors that will easily manage that 3% sac ^^

It should be more than manageable, even for a hero. Consider that an orders hero is casting Order of Pain and Dark Fury as frequently as they can (every 7~ seconds), consuming 17% health with each cast. At a 3% sacrifice you'll need to be casting a spell roughly every second to amount the same health loss as an orders build.

My suggestion is to revert the old function and add the new one to a different skill, so that both functions exist.

That's also one hero, not 3. And since all but one or two spells that regular discordway uses are <= 1s casts, it pretty much goes by itself. This doesn't include regular sac for the curses necro, for stuff like Meekness, who would still want +2 SR (As SR rocks) and +2 death for stronger minions and stronger discord. Everyone knows heroes are stupid, they continue to cast spells until they're out of energy (And necro heroes rarely are) so they're sacing health every time.

I also don't keep my SR at 12+ on my heroes (Except for 1) so they're usually sac'ing 4, not 3% health.

don't you remember when the mm had 20+ minions and you got a crap ton energy back from non-capped soul reaping? man i miss those days .___.

hmmmmmmm. while everybody looks at going to level 19 death magic with this, I'll just take advantage of being able to go 14+2 instead of using a rune which takes away HP from now on.

But then Blood of the Master will just cause you to sac more health.

Oh right... that sucks. But I'm gonna test it out anyways! Hopefully I will get a monk who sees what I'm doing.

Masochism was un-needed, Soul Reaping supplies orders.
And here we have a tribute to cultists fervor, except without the spell bug.
I can now hit out the Equivalent of RoJ's damage in 2 seconds flat with a N/A Build i made for pve, but with a down side of sacrifice, which only really add's up to 35% of your health bar in loss.
I would rather have Cultists fervor back, and masochism reverted in this case.

i was just thinking about this, and having both functionalities present basically turns all 5 energy spells into 1 energy spells at an appropriate SR spec, which means you can be permanently casting interspersed with 10e skills and never even dip into your energy pool (ps, i voted 4 u!)

Wait. Why do you need masochism reverted? Soul Reaping is not enough energy?
I guess other people's opinions will differ. But I like the new masochism much better. Though could be nice to see the skills co-exist.

/signed for making another skill into old-masochism
/notsigned for reverting

At least necros now know how Dervish enchantment jugglers felt

Bend over and grab ya'lls knees each & every update cuz Anet ain't here to please ya'll. They ain't makin' that dough monthly, so wtf do they even care about? NOTHING, that's what..

Truth Hurts... doesn't it?

I liked the old Masochism for niche builds, it was fun to play with. I think the way to go would be to apply the new functionality to something like Verata's Sacrifice, which is already Minion-themed, but terrible.