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Originally Posted by lilDeath
They should add Dwarves to the playable races list. They can be some evil buggers. |
unless you mean Stone Summit
Good Vs Evil.. GW2
Lonesamurai
unless you mean Stone Summit
lilDeath
Yep, any dwarves really.
A story plot can easily be introduced about how certain / specific Dwarves and their ancestors did not take up the rite to be turned to stone, just like Ogden.
A story plot can easily be introduced about how certain / specific Dwarves and their ancestors did not take up the rite to be turned to stone, just like Ogden.
Eliz Genevieve
I'm getting tired of explaining this.
As of GWEN, we destroyed the Summit last stand, eradicating the majority of the Summit dwarves.
And Ogden made it clear that he would undergo the ritual eventually, because, as the Tome of Rubicon says, all the Dwarf race is oging to be changed forever.
Anet probably made that for Ogden so we wouldn't cary a stone dwarf and probably spoil the others who were playing.
So, no dwarves in GW2, except a few who live in the mountains ecansed in stone, sedentaries and alone, apart from the rest of the world.
As of GWEN, we destroyed the Summit last stand, eradicating the majority of the Summit dwarves.
And Ogden made it clear that he would undergo the ritual eventually, because, as the Tome of Rubicon says, all the Dwarf race is oging to be changed forever.
Anet probably made that for Ogden so we wouldn't cary a stone dwarf and probably spoil the others who were playing.
So, no dwarves in GW2, except a few who live in the mountains ecansed in stone, sedentaries and alone, apart from the rest of the world.
Lonesamurai
ah,you paid more attention than I did to the end of the GWEN storyline
Eliz Genevieve
hehe :P
so, basicly, that's why Dwarfs cant be a playable race.
so, basicly, that's why Dwarfs cant be a playable race.
Mad Lord of Milk
Conquering people doesn't make you evil.
SlipknotOFA
We only saw a portion of each one we dont really know about the charr history. And anything can happen in 200 years from now. We really dont know anything about them and in gw2 we will learn alot more thats even if gw2 will even come out. Aion right now is top priorty i guess.
Coney
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Originally Posted by snaek
good vs evil would be a bad idea imo
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Chaotic
Good/Neutral/Evil
I do so miss DnD alignment, and it was such an integral part of the game (given your DM was half-way decent) - and no MMORPG has ever even come close to implementing it as it existed circa 1980-1984 DnD/ADnD. WoW was piss-poor at best, with the horde crap.
draxynnic
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Originally Posted by Lonesamurai
However its easier to see the good from the bad in 40k, and theres only one "Good" race now, the Tau are the youngest race, they have no psykers and no use of the Warp, they also use Star trek style warp engines and have no touch with the warp and so are not corruptible in the same way, however the "Greater Good" can be corrupted by good rhetoric and used against them, but hey, thats the way of the real world too
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(One might also argue the non-dark Eldar - again, in a more idealistic setting they'd probably be cast as Well Intentioned Extremists at best, but they do still seem to value the lives of aliens of races that don't threaten them much higher than anyone except the Tau. They're nasty from an Imperial perspective (but the Imperium is nasty right back - the Eldar generally at least need a reason to kill humans, even if it's that some Farseer predicted that if the multi-billion population of a planet wasn't wiped out there would be the possibility of an Eldar maiden breaking a nail five thousand years later), but the Craftworld Eldar and the Tau are probably the only codex races a member of a non-codex race could surrender to and have a chance of getting anything better than a quick death. That makes them... well, the lightest shades of grey.)
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Originally Posted by Mordakai
The only race that could be considered evil is the Blood Elves, but I admit I get lost in all the "rebels" vs "hardcore" Blood Elves lore, and which ones we are supposed to be playing.
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![]HM[ Sabre Wolf](/static/static/../Img/avatar102835_2.gif){kind=avatar}
]HM[ Sabre Wolf
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Originally Posted by Lonesamurai
...but the good guys are dodgy too and so easily can fall to the "Dark Side", especially those that use any form of magic, as all magic comes from the Warp, the realm of chaos and the stuff that makes chaos.
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But my big question is for GW2... the 6 gods... are they still going to be around? And it seems that there are atleast 4 known evil dragons to go after... maybe the dragons are counter points to the gods... ergo your good vs evil track for GW2?
Eliz Genevieve
Desert Dragon, Primordus, Orrian Dragon, Deep Sea Dragon, Ice and Snow Dragon, they're 5 :b
As for now, the Dragons are the main antagonists. Now to they why they are the main antagonists, is unknown, we don't know why their only goal seems to be 'deciamte & destroy'.
And the Gods are still around, they just don't interfere with Tyria anymore, the last sign that they care was Balthazar opening a portal to the Rift in LA.
As for now, the Dragons are the main antagonists. Now to they why they are the main antagonists, is unknown, we don't know why their only goal seems to be 'deciamte & destroy'.
And the Gods are still around, they just don't interfere with Tyria anymore, the last sign that they care was Balthazar opening a portal to the Rift in LA.
Servant of Kali
Asuras are evil.
Just look at their attitude. Besides, they didn't get that name for no reason.
Just look at their attitude. Besides, they didn't get that name for no reason.
AmbientMelody
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Originally Posted by Eliz Genevieve
I'm getting tired of explaining this.
As of GWEN, we destroyed the Summit last stand, eradicating the majority of the Summit dwarves. And Ogden made it clear that he would undergo the ritual eventually, because, as the Tome of Rubicon says, all the Dwarf race is oging to be changed forever. Anet probably made that for Ogden so we wouldn't cary a stone dwarf and probably spoil the others who were playing. So, no dwarves in GW2, except a few who live in the mountains ecansed in stone, sedentaries and alone, apart from the rest of the world. |
Guild Wars without Dwarves is Guild Wars no more, and fans will let Anet know that, if for some reason they decide to not include them. Fan service, you know? Dwarves will be, because they have to be, even if not as playable race.
Lonesamurai
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Originally Posted by AmbientMelody
Guild Wars without Dwarves is Guild Wars no more, and fans will let Anet knows that, if for some reason they decide to not include them. Fan service, you know? Dwarves will be, because they have to be, even if not as playable race.
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AmbientMelody
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Originally Posted by Lonesamurai
by what are you referencing that? you can't play as Dwarves in GW1 so why GW2?
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Lonesamurai
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Originally Posted by AmbientMelody
Because it's pretty doubtful Anet will decide to completely wipe out all the Dwarves from the game (**** the prophecy lol, who cares
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Dwarf
From Guild Wars 2 Wiki
(Redirected from Dwarves)
Dwarves are deathless humanoid creatures, encased in stone. They once inhabited the Shiverpeak Mountains. They gave up their flesh and their mortality 250 years ago in the name of their god, the Great Dwarf, to help defeat Primordus' greatest general, the Great Destroyer. They were successful, but at a great price.
Their physiology is short, stocky, bearded and, of course, rocky. Once the greatest crafters and smiths in Tyria, their position was quickly taken by the Asura after their demise.
Those few Dwarves who survived the battle against the Great Destroyer live an isolated, unending existence in the depths of Tyria and the highest reaches of the mountains. Scattered across the continent, they now serve as the guardians of Tyria from the minions of Primordus who dwell beneath the ground. As long as they try to break out and find new ways of reaching the surface, the Dwarves will be watching.
Eliz Genevieve
You got faster than I did.
Yeah, basicly that's why the Dwarves aren't that promenient in GW2, as stated in The Movement of The World, we are going to be lucky ones if we ever come across one.
Yeah, Anet isn't going to end the Dwarves, we all know that. They just can't be a playable race, because there's just too few of them. In an expansion, if they ever find a way to reproduce, then yeah, they can become a playable race. In the original GW2, no, they just can't.
And you are the first one to QQ about no Dwarves as playable races. At least that I know of.
Yeah, basicly that's why the Dwarves aren't that promenient in GW2, as stated in The Movement of The World, we are going to be lucky ones if we ever come across one.
Yeah, Anet isn't going to end the Dwarves, we all know that. They just can't be a playable race, because there's just too few of them. In an expansion, if they ever find a way to reproduce, then yeah, they can become a playable race. In the original GW2, no, they just can't.
And you are the first one to QQ about no Dwarves as playable races. At least that I know of.
Konig Des Todes
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Originally Posted by AmbientMelody
Guild Wars without Dwarves is Guild Wars no more, and fans will let Anet know that, if for some reason they decide to not include them. Fan service, you know? Dwarves will be, because they have to be, even if not as playable race.
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Originally Posted by AmbientMelody
Because it's pretty doubtful Anet will decide to completely wipe out all the Dwarves from the game (**** the prophecy lol, who cares
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Doesn't matter if people want them around in GW2, unlike Mursaat, there is proof they are not only low in numbers, but cannot reproduce. Mursaat - the only "near extinct" race to survive by player demand - can still reproduce.
Anet probably prevented saving the Dwarven race because of the good ol' Mursaat Rally. x)
HawkofStorms
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Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes
Says who? Guild Wars is Guild Wars even if the human race is wiped out. Just like reality is still reality if a civilization is wiped out (which has and will always happen). Denying races being wiped out just goes against the fact that any group of any existence will eventually fall to time.
Uhhh, they won't. They are just near extinct and cannot reproduce. What is done is done. And who cares? How about every freakin "lorist" who hates retconing. Doesn't matter if people want them around in GW2, unlike Mursaat, there is proof they are not only low in numbers, but cannot reproduce. Mursaat - the only "near extinct" race to survive by player demand - can still reproduce. Anet probably prevented saving the Dwarven race because of the good ol' Mursaat Rally. x) |
Not that I expect that to be happening. I still think Dwarves won't be a playable race (at least, not until an expansion). Just saying the whole "near extinct" thing doesn't mean anything as a defense to why this won't happen. They aren't a playable race because A.net says so, not because of lore reasons.
Konig Des Todes
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Originally Posted by HawkofStorms
Well, the thing people always seem to forget is, just because they are "near extinct" doesn't mean they can't be a playable race. Elves are "nearly extinct" in Warhammer Online, but they are a playable race. All "near extinct" means is we won't see towns full of em and lots of NPCs. If you make "stone dwarf" some sort of unlockable prestige class, it might still be kinda rare.
Not that I expect that to be happening. I still think Dwarves won't be a playable race (at least, not until an expansion). Just saying the whole "near extinct" thing doesn't mean anything as a defense to why this won't happen. They aren't a playable race because A.net says so, not because of lore reasons. |
Lonesamurai
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Originally Posted by HawkofStorms
Well, the thing people always seem to forget is, just because they are "near extinct" doesn't mean they can't be a playable race. Elves are "nearly extinct" in Warhammer Online, but they are a playable race. All "near extinct" means is we won't see towns full of em and lots of NPCs. If you make "stone dwarf" some sort of unlockable prestige class, it might still be kinda rare.
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High Elves are a lost remnant of the Eldar Race,just as the Warhammer fantasy world is a world lost in warp storms within Imperial Space (some say near the Cadian Gate near the Eye of Terror) and although the Eldar are a race on the edge of extinction,they still number in the billions, maybe trillions on their Craftworlds
The Dwarves of Deldrimor,(as stated earlier) turned to stone to keep Primordius' forces at bay and as such are both too STONY and too busy to be a playable race in GW2
Gigashadow
Here, this sums it up TBC lore well. Btw, I hate elves in space, whether it's WoW or Warhammer's Eldar.
http://lorelol.ytmnd.com/
http://lorelol.ytmnd.com/
Mordakai
I won't shed a tear for the Dwarves, I want Guild Wars 2 to be as original as a fantasy game can be (yes, I realize that's somewhat a contradiction).
Charr are pretty unique, Asura are cool, the Norn are, well, they are pretty derivative, but I know they will be popular.
The Sylvari could be very cool and mysterious OR they could just be Elves by another name (I hope not). If they go around saying stuff like "Explain these things called 'feelings' ", I'll be pissed!
Charr are pretty unique, Asura are cool, the Norn are, well, they are pretty derivative, but I know they will be popular.
The Sylvari could be very cool and mysterious OR they could just be Elves by another name (I hope not). If they go around saying stuff like "Explain these things called 'feelings' ", I'll be pissed!
Eliz Genevieve
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Originally Posted by Mordakai
The Sylvari could be very cool and mysterious OR they could just be Elves by another name (I hope not). If they go around saying stuff like "Explain these things called 'feelings' ", I'll be pissed!
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But then again, they should know what feelings are, Ventari should've transimted that way too well in the Tablet.
Konig Des Todes
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Originally Posted by Mordakai
The Sylvari could be very cool and mysterious OR they could just be Elves by another name (I hope not).
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The idea that elves have anything in common with nature is actually pretty false, in terms of the elfish origin. They would be seen more of as a group of beings which look at the whole, not so much are in tune with the world. It is pretty much comparing a tree hugger to a taoist when comparing what seems to be the influence of Sylvari (Nymphs and Dryads) to elves. In that order, mind you.
Yes, that may very well mean the average Sylvari NPC will be a hippie.
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Originally Posted by Mordakai
If they go around saying stuff like "Explain these things called 'feelings' ", I'll be pissed!
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Axwind
While texture and complexity in terms of alignment is a good thing, at the same time, one should avoid having too many shades of gray. There should be some black and white, but not so much as to drown out the gray. I hope that in GW2, we'll be presented with multiple paths in quests and dialogue and such rather than just one, sort of how NWN2 is with its branching dialogue and alternate story paths (such as how you can choose which way to get into Blacklake District in Neverwinter, for example). Bobby Stein mentioned in his wiki that dialogue in GW2 was going to be done differently than it is in GW1, so hopefully it's something like the above.
And while the dragons are certainly enemy enough, who says they and Joko are the only ones? It's not something I expect Anet to think of, but it would be interesting if the dragons' awakening was in fact not entirely of their own will, but rather aided by an as-yet unmentioned enemy with a hidden agenda of his or her own, one in which the unleashing of the dragons upon the world is but a prelude to an even darker struggle. The dragons, of course, would not take kindly to someone or something in the shadows attempting to use them like puppets, but neither would they stoop so low as to ally with any of what they see as inferior races (humans, Charr, etc.) to strike back, preferring instead to rely on their own considerable power.
So in such a scenario, you have not only conflicted allies (natural tensions between humans and Charr, Norn and Asura, etc.), but conflict between enemies as well, with the playable races and the world itself caught in the middle. The waker of the dragons need not be a conquest-obssessed megalomaniac, either, but for once a more complex, conflicted individual with entirely other, more personal motives.
And while the dragons are certainly enemy enough, who says they and Joko are the only ones? It's not something I expect Anet to think of, but it would be interesting if the dragons' awakening was in fact not entirely of their own will, but rather aided by an as-yet unmentioned enemy with a hidden agenda of his or her own, one in which the unleashing of the dragons upon the world is but a prelude to an even darker struggle. The dragons, of course, would not take kindly to someone or something in the shadows attempting to use them like puppets, but neither would they stoop so low as to ally with any of what they see as inferior races (humans, Charr, etc.) to strike back, preferring instead to rely on their own considerable power.
So in such a scenario, you have not only conflicted allies (natural tensions between humans and Charr, Norn and Asura, etc.), but conflict between enemies as well, with the playable races and the world itself caught in the middle. The waker of the dragons need not be a conquest-obssessed megalomaniac, either, but for once a more complex, conflicted individual with entirely other, more personal motives.
draxynnic
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Originally Posted by Lonesamurai
but you can't compare with High Elves with the GW dwarves
High Elves are a lost remnant of the Eldar Race,just as the Warhammer fantasy world is a world lost in warp storms within Imperial Space (some say near the Cadian Gate near the Eye of Terror) and although the Eldar are a race on the edge of extinction,they still number in the billions, maybe trillions on their Craftworlds |
Plus, from memory the Liber Chaotica describes the Eldar as being similar but different to the Asur, with the difference being implied to be more than just technology. Given the propensity of the Old Ones for genetic engineering, they may have been trying to engineer a breed of Eldar that was less vulnerable to Chaos. It's also notable that while Slaanesh exists in the Fantasy universe, he/she/it neither appears to have eaten the Elven gods, nor does he/she/it seem to have any special thirst for Elven souls over those of other races in the WHF world.
Possibly more relevant, however, is that Elves in Warhammer aren't really close to extinction in technical terms. They're dwindling in a manner that suggests that if it isn't reversed they will die out sooner or later, but the impression I've always had is that the total number of High Elves is still fairly close to the population of the Empire (the 'empty city syndrome' coming from the High Elves being that much more spread out, having Ulthuan, Arnheim, and various other colonies dotted around the world, and from having had a much higher population in the past). The Guild Wars dwarves, on the other hand, give me the impression of there only being a few thousand remaining - certainly not enough for several million players to each have a dwarf or two each.
squigoth
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Originally Posted by Cool Down
That leaves the Sylvari.. but they are a non-violent race as far as i could see on the wiki ? |
Marvollo Gaunt
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Originally Posted by Cool Down
When you look at the list of playable races which we have heard of so far, you have a list of five playable races.
* Asura * Charr * Human * Norn * Sylvari But are these races really balanced when you think of a good vs evil scenario. So far the only evil race i see on the list is the Charr ? Am i the only one who think that is a little lame, i would really love some more "evil" races. Asura could go as a kind of "evil" because of their personality, but still they help all the other ones in Eye of the North. Human's aint evil for sure, and Norn can't be either since they also assist the humans in Eye of the North. That leaves the Sylvari.. but they are a non-violent race as far as i could see on the wiki Correct me if I'm wrong, but that aint much evil in GW2 to me? |
Winterclaw
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Originally Posted by Racthoh
I don't understand the purpose of alignments in an MMO. Considering the appeal of an online game lies in the interaction with other players splitting the population for the sake of lore doesn't make sense.
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Take SWG or the KOTOR mmo. You've got a clear division of sides and I don't think that most of the time you'd have one side hanging out with the other. Or that WWII game (whatever happened to that). You probably shouldn't have a group of nazi stormtroopers and SS officers fighting for the british and americans.
That said, I don't expect sides in GW2 though.
Eliz Genevieve
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Originally Posted by Marvollo Gaunt
well, GW2 is supposed to take place like what 700 years after EoTN? That leaves a lot of room for Anet to work around alliances and things like that.
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MithranArkanere
Charr are not necessarily evil.
They may be cunning, sly and even a bit cruel, but they don't have to be evil.
Charr and Human hate each other, but is a stupid hate like Luxon vs Kurzick.
But hating each other doesn't mean that they are evil, it just mean that they are stupid.
Now, when they eat people, now that's evil. You don't it something that can ask you not to, that's basic manners.
The Charr we know are just pushed by the Shamans... and very hungry.
Games that allow both good an evil should have HUGE downsides when you choose evil, like not being able to enter towns, not accessing to many shops, being chased by super powerful law enforcers that will deliver incommensurable amounts of pain and kill you with their gaze...
Evil is to be banished, vanquished, DESTROYED, not to be played with as if it was harmless.
They may be cunning, sly and even a bit cruel, but they don't have to be evil.
Charr and Human hate each other, but is a stupid hate like Luxon vs Kurzick.
But hating each other doesn't mean that they are evil, it just mean that they are stupid.
Now, when they eat people, now that's evil. You don't it something that can ask you not to, that's basic manners.
The Charr we know are just pushed by the Shamans... and very hungry.
Games that allow both good an evil should have HUGE downsides when you choose evil, like not being able to enter towns, not accessing to many shops, being chased by super powerful law enforcers that will deliver incommensurable amounts of pain and kill you with their gaze...
Evil is to be banished, vanquished, DESTROYED, not to be played with as if it was harmless.
Ravious
I think if you watch 300, you will understand how Charr may be in GW2. Charr are like Spartans, and humans are like Athenians. Spartans have all contempt for Athenians as being [something I can't post here], but when the Athenians do push back Xerxes they are impressed.
I personally love the dwarves story. It is a tragic, selfless tale. They gave up free will, etc. in order to become weapons knowing that the change could never be undone. As an entire race that's pretty significant. I can't wait for the little vignettes on the remaining "dwarves" in GW2.
I personally love the dwarves story. It is a tragic, selfless tale. They gave up free will, etc. in order to become weapons knowing that the change could never be undone. As an entire race that's pretty significant. I can't wait for the little vignettes on the remaining "dwarves" in GW2.
Lonesamurai
I'm actually looking forward to meeting the stone dwarves in GW2 aswell
BrettM
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
CNow, when they eat people, now that's evil. You don't it something that can ask you not to, that's basic manners.
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Is there any evidence in GW that any humans were actually used for food? Certainly humans were held prisoner, enslaved, and used for some vile sport. (But Kournans used centaurs as slave labor, and might well have gotten around to crueler uses, so Charr aren't uniquely evil in this regard.) However, calling us "meat" to rattle us and actually using us as meat are two different things.
Konig Des Todes
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Originally Posted by BrettM
Is there any evidence in GW that any humans were actually used for food? Certainly humans were held prisoner, enslaved, and used for some vile sport. (But Kournans used centaurs as slave labor, and might well have gotten around to crueler uses, so Charr aren't uniquely evil in this regard.) However, calling us "meat" to rattle us and actually using us as meat are two different things.
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Lihinel
To be fair we skin them and probaly eat a Charr stake once in a while too.
(My Elementalist likes charred Charr stake the most.)
(My Elementalist likes charred Charr stake the most.)
Mordakai
I don't know if eating another race is more "evil" than killing it for no reason...
after all, what else are Charr going to eat? Grawl meat? Ewwww.....
after all, what else are Charr going to eat? Grawl meat? Ewwww.....
Konig Des Todes
Charr's food possibilities are Grawl, wolves/ravens, mandragors (which is unhealthy, as proven by a collector dialogue, and is prisoners' food), skales, mantids and humans.
Which would you eat as a Charr? Usable creatures *Grawl, wolves, ravens*, unhealthy creatures *mandragors*, or enemies *humans*?
Which would you eat as a Charr? Usable creatures *Grawl, wolves, ravens*, unhealthy creatures *mandragors*, or enemies *humans*?
tmr819
Hmmm, I think it would be fun to see centaurs as an additional playable race in GW2.
As far as "good versus evil", what I'd like to see -- if GW2 does introduce an Alliance/Horde kind of dynamic -- is for the two sides to be both "good" but be fiercely opposed to another. Present players with a faction choice that is not so cut and dried. I love the way conflicts are set up in G. R. R. Martin's Fire and Ice series, wherein good guys are often very bad and bad guys are, as well, not always as bad as they seem.
If GW2 were to set up some sort of massive overarching conflict, wherein each side has both good and bad aspects, and then allow players to choose to play any race but to also choose an alignment at some point later in the game, I think that would be pretty fun. The system might even permit "defections" to the other side in some circumstances.
As far as "good versus evil", what I'd like to see -- if GW2 does introduce an Alliance/Horde kind of dynamic -- is for the two sides to be both "good" but be fiercely opposed to another. Present players with a faction choice that is not so cut and dried. I love the way conflicts are set up in G. R. R. Martin's Fire and Ice series, wherein good guys are often very bad and bad guys are, as well, not always as bad as they seem.
If GW2 were to set up some sort of massive overarching conflict, wherein each side has both good and bad aspects, and then allow players to choose to play any race but to also choose an alignment at some point later in the game, I think that would be pretty fun. The system might even permit "defections" to the other side in some circumstances.