So my brother and I usually play together, I play Warrior, he plays Elementalist.
We're both familiar with Discordway and have been using variation after variation trying to get the best out of it. Anyway, last night we decided to do FoW HM and we completely rolled it and had our fastest time yet of 2 hours (including the 3 5-10 minute AFKs I had). I still think it could be better, so what are your opinions?
Warrior/Dervish - Me
~~~~
Strength = 12+1+1
Scythe = 12
Eremite's Attack
Mystic Sweep
Protector's Strike
Zealous Sweep
Ebon Battle Standard of Honor
Aura of Holy Might
"Save Yourselves!"
Warrior's Endurance
Necromancer/Monk - Hero 1
~~~~
Death = 12+1+3
Soul = 8
Healing = 10
Discord
Animate Bone Minions
Blood of the Master
Death Nova
Dwayna's Sorrow
Healing Seed
Signet of Lost Souls
Remove Hex
Necromancer/Ritualist - Hero 2
~~~~
Death = 10+1+3
Soul = 8
Curses = 8
Restoration = 10
Discord
Animate Shambling Horror
Rip Enchantment
Enfeebling Blood
Barbs
Life
Signet of Lost Souls
Death Pact Signet
Necromancer/Ritualist - Hero 3
~~~~
Death = 10+1+3
Soul = 8
Curses = 8
Restoration = 10
Discord
Animate Shambling Horror
Rip Enchantment
Weaken Armor
Defile Defenses
Rejuvenation
Signet of Lost Souls
Death Pact Signet
Elementalist/Assassin - Him
~~~~
Fire = 12+1+3
Energy = 8+2
Deadly = 10
Water = 2
Assassin's Promise
Glyph of Sacrifice
Meteor Shower
Mark of Rodort
Deep Freeze
Lava Arrows
Aura of Restoration
Fire Attunement
Ritualist/~ - Hero 4
~~~~
Channeling = 12+1+1
Spawning = 12
Signet of Spirits
Agony
Bloodsong
Painful Bond
Spirit Rift
Splinter Weapon
Boon of Creation
Death Pact Signet
Necromancer/Ritualist - Hero 5
~~~~
Death = 10+1+1
Soul = 8
Restoration = 12
Discord
Putrid Bile
Mend Body and Soul
Spirit Light
Protective Was Kaolai
Recovery
Weapon of Warding
Flesh of my Flesh
Necromancer/Ritualist - Hero 6
~~~~
Death = 10+1+1
Soul = 8
Restoration = 12
Discord
Putrid Bile
Mend Body and Soul
Spirit Light
Protective Was Kaolai
Recuperation
Weapon of Warding
Flesh of my Flesh
This version is slightly modified for FoW, but is generally what we use. So I'm just looking for any suggestions to make it better.
Any advice for this build?
Konker2020
FireWhale
Some things I noticed:
1. I think making the Rt half channling half restoration could be beneficial. I noticed you guys don't use sups that often, so I would suggest a 12+1+1 restoration (breakpoint for life)/11 +1 channeling/6+1 spawning for extra heals or a 12+1+1 channeling (breakpoint for splinter)/11+1 resto/6+1 spawning to keep up a 5 hit splinter. However, my favorite would be a 12+1+1 resto/11+3 channeling/6+1 spawning for the best of both lines. Something like:
SoS
Splinter
Protective was Kaolai
Life
Mend body/soul
Spirit light
Siphon Spirit
Death pact signet
Either way, the point is that spawning power does not deserve 12 in it and I think the Rt could be better utilized as a healer. There is a minor damage loss from removing pain, agony, and painful bond, but you gain much more benefit as a healer. Don't think you need more healers, but *shrugs*, it's a suggestion. Another option would be to explore the communing line (drop 4 from spawning and put 10 in communing) for pain/disenchantment/blinding/interrupting/etc. spirits.
Finally, if you keep your Rt the same, change spirit rift to Ancestor's rage. It's much much better.
2. You have no prots. If you do change your Rt to a healer, you could make one of those N/Rt healers a N/Mo protter. Very respectable despite the AI's deficiency in smart protting. The endless battery makes up for this so your N/Mo can just cast all the high prots he wants.
3. Withering aura. You have enough overlap anyhow and it's a fantastic skill for you.
1. I think making the Rt half channling half restoration could be beneficial. I noticed you guys don't use sups that often, so I would suggest a 12+1+1 restoration (breakpoint for life)/11 +1 channeling/6+1 spawning for extra heals or a 12+1+1 channeling (breakpoint for splinter)/11+1 resto/6+1 spawning to keep up a 5 hit splinter. However, my favorite would be a 12+1+1 resto/11+3 channeling/6+1 spawning for the best of both lines. Something like:
SoS
Splinter
Protective was Kaolai
Life
Mend body/soul
Spirit light
Siphon Spirit
Death pact signet
Either way, the point is that spawning power does not deserve 12 in it and I think the Rt could be better utilized as a healer. There is a minor damage loss from removing pain, agony, and painful bond, but you gain much more benefit as a healer. Don't think you need more healers, but *shrugs*, it's a suggestion. Another option would be to explore the communing line (drop 4 from spawning and put 10 in communing) for pain/disenchantment/blinding/interrupting/etc. spirits.
Finally, if you keep your Rt the same, change spirit rift to Ancestor's rage. It's much much better.
2. You have no prots. If you do change your Rt to a healer, you could make one of those N/Rt healers a N/Mo protter. Very respectable despite the AI's deficiency in smart protting. The endless battery makes up for this so your N/Mo can just cast all the high prots he wants.
3. Withering aura. You have enough overlap anyhow and it's a fantastic skill for you.
MisterB
Put Strength of Honor on one of your heroes to maintain on you.
laksa and curry
Looks good to me. Damn wished I had a brother to do 2 men H/H with.....
I would have used rez signet in place of death pact. Not a fan of death pact.
I would have used rez signet in place of death pact. Not a fan of death pact.
Konker2020
As far as FireWhale and MisterBs suggestion go, they seem to add to it.
@MisterB, was consider adding SoH, now you've confirmed it
@FireWhale, you have some good ideas as far as that goes, the healing is pretty good.
@laska and curry, I don't like Rez Sig as it requires Moral Boost to recharge (not that I need rez frequently anyways), but DPS works well b/c its quick and even if the guy you rezzed somehow manages to die again (assuming you rezzed him during battle), he doesn't get DP for it. Usually, rezzes should be saved for after battle, the only reason this team has 5 rezzes instead of my usual 2 is b/c of DPS, fast, no cost, more of a benefit than a downfall
Anyway, do you guys think that maybe throwing the other 2 spirits on heroes 2 and 3 and changing the healers to WoH Partyheal spammers with SoLS would be a good idea? Well, 1 and 1 Protter... Not real sure how well it would work, I have had probs with N/Mo healers.
@MisterB, was consider adding SoH, now you've confirmed it
@FireWhale, you have some good ideas as far as that goes, the healing is pretty good.
@laska and curry, I don't like Rez Sig as it requires Moral Boost to recharge (not that I need rez frequently anyways), but DPS works well b/c its quick and even if the guy you rezzed somehow manages to die again (assuming you rezzed him during battle), he doesn't get DP for it. Usually, rezzes should be saved for after battle, the only reason this team has 5 rezzes instead of my usual 2 is b/c of DPS, fast, no cost, more of a benefit than a downfall
Anyway, do you guys think that maybe throwing the other 2 spirits on heroes 2 and 3 and changing the healers to WoH Partyheal spammers with SoLS would be a good idea? Well, 1 and 1 Protter... Not real sure how well it would work, I have had probs with N/Mo healers.
Paul Dawg
Certainly no argument about that build in general, but on this particular team I don't see why they want to sacrifice damage for more healing. I kinda think they have enough healing. What I'd do with the Rit instead is make it pure spawning/channeling--in other words, forget about communing. There are enough channeling spirits to do serious damage, and you'll get strong splinter weapons (and nightmare weapons, if you like it) in addition. Make sure painful bond is on there--nice useful AoE hex. A dedicated channeling spirit-spammer is going to do a lot more damage than a channeling/communig hybrid spirit spammer. The only time I'd go with communing is when you already have a channeling spammer in place (and then the combination, with skills like anguish, is pretty effective).
Quote:
Originally Posted by FireWhale
Quote:
1. I think making the Rt half channling half restoration could be beneficial. I noticed you guys don't use sups that often, so I would suggest a 12+1+1 restoration (breakpoint for life)/11 +1 channeling/6+1 spawning for extra heals or a 12+1+1 channeling (breakpoint for splinter)/11+1 resto/6+1 spawning to keep up a 5 hit splinter. However, my favorite would be a 12+1+1 resto/11+3 channeling/6+1 spawning for the best of both lines. Something like:
SoS
Splinter
Protective was Kaolai
Life
Mend body/soul
Spirit light
Siphon Spirit
Death pact signet
Either way, the point is that spawning power does not deserve 12 in it and I think the Rt could be better utilized as a healer. There is a minor damage loss from removing pain, agony, and painful bond, but you gain much more benefit as a healer. Don't think you need more healers, but *shrugs*, it's a suggestion. Another option would be to explore the communing line (drop 4 from spawning and put 10 in communing) for pain/disenchantment/blinding/interrupting/etc. spirits.
Finally, if you keep your Rt the same, change spirit rift to Ancestor's rage. It's much much better.
SoS
Splinter
Protective was Kaolai
Life
Mend body/soul
Spirit light
Siphon Spirit
Death pact signet
Either way, the point is that spawning power does not deserve 12 in it and I think the Rt could be better utilized as a healer. There is a minor damage loss from removing pain, agony, and painful bond, but you gain much more benefit as a healer. Don't think you need more healers, but *shrugs*, it's a suggestion. Another option would be to explore the communing line (drop 4 from spawning and put 10 in communing) for pain/disenchantment/blinding/interrupting/etc. spirits.
Finally, if you keep your Rt the same, change spirit rift to Ancestor's rage. It's much much better.
Konker2020
@Paul Dawg, I agree with that entirely
Anyway, I changed up the builds a little bit. Here they are:
Warrior/Dervish - Me
~~~~
Strength = 12+1+1
Scythe = 12
Eremite's Attack
Mystic Sweep
Protector's Strike
Flail
Ebon Battle Standard of Honor
Aura of Holy Might
"Save Yourselves!"
Warrior's Endurance
Necromancer/Monk - Hero 1
~~~~
Death = 12+1+3
Soul = 8
Healing = 10
Discord
Animate Bone Minions
Blood of the Master
Death Nova
Dwayna's Sorrow
Healing Seed
Signet of Lost Souls
Masochism (testing this atm, not too convinced on the usefulness vs downfall, e-management is better)
Necromancer/Ritualist - Hero 2
~~~~
Death = 10+1+3
Soul = 8
Curses = 12
Discord
Animate Shambling Horror
Rip Enchantment
Enfeebling Blood
Barbs
Well of Suffering
Signet of Lost Souls
Death Pact Signet
Necromancer/Ritualist - Hero 3
~~~~
Death = 10+1+3
Soul = 8
Curses = 12
Discord
Animate Shambling Horror
Rip Enchantment
Weaken Armor
Defile Defenses
Withering Aura
Signet of Lost Souls
Death Pact Signet
Elementalist/Assassin - Him
~~~~
Fire = 12+1+3
Energy = 8+2
Deadly = 10
Assassin's Promise
Glyph of Sacrifice
Meteor Shower
Mark of Rodort
Lava Arrows
Glowing Gaze
Aura of Restoration
Fire Attunement
Ritualist/Monk - Hero 4
~~~~
Channeling = 12+1+1
Spawning = 8
Smiting = 10
Signet of Spirits
Bloodsong
Painful Bond
Ancestor's Rage (I agreed that AR was better than Spirit Rift, but was advised to try it, switched back to AR now)
Splinter Weapon
Strength of Honor
Boon of Creation
Death Pact Signet
Necromancer/Ritualist - Hero 5
~~~~
Death = 10+1+1
Soul = 8
Restoration = 12
Discord
Mend Body and Soul
Spirit Light
Protective Was Kaolai
Life
Recovery
Weapon of Warding
Flesh of my Flesh
Necromancer/Ritualist - Hero 6
~~~~
Death = 10+1+1
Soul = 8
Restoration = 12
Discord
Mend Body and Soul
Spirit Light
Protective Was Kaolai
Recuperation
Rejuvenation
Weapon of Warding
Flesh of my Flesh
Anyway, I changed up the builds a little bit. Here they are:
Warrior/Dervish - Me
~~~~
Strength = 12+1+1
Scythe = 12
Eremite's Attack
Mystic Sweep
Protector's Strike
Flail
Ebon Battle Standard of Honor
Aura of Holy Might
"Save Yourselves!"
Warrior's Endurance
Necromancer/Monk - Hero 1
~~~~
Death = 12+1+3
Soul = 8
Healing = 10
Discord
Animate Bone Minions
Blood of the Master
Death Nova
Dwayna's Sorrow
Healing Seed
Signet of Lost Souls
Masochism (testing this atm, not too convinced on the usefulness vs downfall, e-management is better)
Necromancer/Ritualist - Hero 2
~~~~
Death = 10+1+3
Soul = 8
Curses = 12
Discord
Animate Shambling Horror
Rip Enchantment
Enfeebling Blood
Barbs
Well of Suffering
Signet of Lost Souls
Death Pact Signet
Necromancer/Ritualist - Hero 3
~~~~
Death = 10+1+3
Soul = 8
Curses = 12
Discord
Animate Shambling Horror
Rip Enchantment
Weaken Armor
Defile Defenses
Withering Aura
Signet of Lost Souls
Death Pact Signet
Elementalist/Assassin - Him
~~~~
Fire = 12+1+3
Energy = 8+2
Deadly = 10
Assassin's Promise
Glyph of Sacrifice
Meteor Shower
Mark of Rodort
Lava Arrows
Glowing Gaze
Aura of Restoration
Fire Attunement
Ritualist/Monk - Hero 4
~~~~
Channeling = 12+1+1
Spawning = 8
Smiting = 10
Signet of Spirits
Bloodsong
Painful Bond
Ancestor's Rage (I agreed that AR was better than Spirit Rift, but was advised to try it, switched back to AR now)
Splinter Weapon
Strength of Honor
Boon of Creation
Death Pact Signet
Necromancer/Ritualist - Hero 5
~~~~
Death = 10+1+1
Soul = 8
Restoration = 12
Discord
Mend Body and Soul
Spirit Light
Protective Was Kaolai
Life
Recovery
Weapon of Warding
Flesh of my Flesh
Necromancer/Ritualist - Hero 6
~~~~
Death = 10+1+1
Soul = 8
Restoration = 12
Discord
Mend Body and Soul
Spirit Light
Protective Was Kaolai
Recuperation
Rejuvenation
Weapon of Warding
Flesh of my Flesh
Perfected Shadow
Hex removal would be good.
An idea: your brother could play an Ether Renewal infuser/protter with Great Dwarf Weapon for stronger and more dependable healing/prots. I think an Ether renewal bar has more potential than AP meteor shower+burning (I don't like degen).
Then you can replace one of the discord healers with a Barrage hero or something. Also with scythe, barrage, and GDW you got big damage and lots of KDs. But you would have to trade splinter for that.
Well of suffering is not good because it competes for bodies (2 potential bone minion bombs are better).
Power attack instead of protector's strike imo because isn't it rare to hit moving mobs anyway? Besides you have 2 fast attacks already so you can hit power attack -> mystic, power attack -> eremite's, etc. I haven't played W/D so not sure on this really.
An idea: your brother could play an Ether Renewal infuser/protter with Great Dwarf Weapon for stronger and more dependable healing/prots. I think an Ether renewal bar has more potential than AP meteor shower+burning (I don't like degen).
Then you can replace one of the discord healers with a Barrage hero or something. Also with scythe, barrage, and GDW you got big damage and lots of KDs. But you would have to trade splinter for that.
Well of suffering is not good because it competes for bodies (2 potential bone minion bombs are better).
Power attack instead of protector's strike imo because isn't it rare to hit moving mobs anyway? Besides you have 2 fast attacks already so you can hit power attack -> mystic, power attack -> eremite's, etc. I haven't played W/D so not sure on this really.
Konker2020
To start, Protector's Strike is not solely for damage, well it is, but not directly. It's 1/2s attack speed greatly increases the damage on a group b/c of its fast rate, especially with splinter. IMO degen is good b/c it counters regen, and it really helps to pressure healers, degen used efficiently is really decent. As far as the E/Mo ER Infuse/Prot, I'll mention it to him, and attempt to teach him. I mentioned it before and he just told me that he doesn't like healing. Well of Suffering adds to the pressure and the AI only uses it when there isn't one up that surrounds the enemies that are in range.
MercenaryKnight
I would still replace power attack with protector's strike. There is a such thing as an aftercast from your 1/2 attack speed. I would swap out zealous sweep for protector's strike if you want to keep it in there.
Instead of the ward I would go with asuran scan instead. Minions will be blowing up and won't receive much help from the ward. Pain inverter could also be a choice to cast on a high damaging target while you focus on another enemy. Energy shouldn't be a problem.
Toss this build onto the rit hero instead.
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Rt/M...ling_Ritualist
Instead of the ward I would go with asuran scan instead. Minions will be blowing up and won't receive much help from the ward. Pain inverter could also be a choice to cast on a high damaging target while you focus on another enemy. Energy shouldn't be a problem.
Toss this build onto the rit hero instead.
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Rt/M...ling_Ritualist
Gigashadow
Konker2020
Quote:
Originally Posted by MercenaryKnight
I would still replace power attack with protector's strike. There is a such thing as an aftercast from your 1/2 attack speed. I would swap out zealous sweep for protector's strike if you want to keep it in there.
Instead of the ward I would go with asuran scan instead. Minions will be blowing up and won't receive much help from the ward. Pain inverter could also be a choice to cast on a high damaging target while you focus on another enemy. Energy shouldn't be a problem.
Toss this build onto the rit hero instead.
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Rt/M...ling_Ritualist I assume you mean Protector's for Power Attack, and the aftercast on most attack skills is so minor with and IAS it doesn't even matter, on top of the fact that the aftercast would still be the same with Power Attack or Protector's. And I believe that you have only seen the one version, I updated the build in a further post. I recently changed the rit to something more along those lines.
Instead of the ward I would go with asuran scan instead. Minions will be blowing up and won't receive much help from the ward. Pain inverter could also be a choice to cast on a high damaging target while you focus on another enemy. Energy shouldn't be a problem.
Toss this build onto the rit hero instead.
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Rt/M...ling_Ritualist I assume you mean Protector's for Power Attack, and the aftercast on most attack skills is so minor with and IAS it doesn't even matter, on top of the fact that the aftercast would still be the same with Power Attack or Protector's. And I believe that you have only seen the one version, I updated the build in a further post. I recently changed the rit to something more along those lines.