allowing heroes to be used in GvG and HA

http://www.guildwars.com/events/cont...l_bar_contest/
AI abuse, just like an 8 man team, is a tatic, just that the knowledge of it is easy to comprehend and far spread.it should not be undermined just because we understand the mechanics of the Ai better than human players. AI abuse also come with its flaws too which many do not want to address when confronting the update changes.

the only difference between heroes and henchmen is customisation. the henchman that are coming out from xunlai contest are going to have the same AI as the heroes. does that mean we ban henchmen with AI that function better than human ability in pvp?

AI abuse is a small issue compared to player microing. player microing requires skill, it is not an innate AI. why should we deprive the expansion of more talented players from exhibiting their skills just so that they can win? It is not an unfair advantage if some1 has more control over more characters in a battle. i agree that player to player coordination is harder compared to microingas players lack communication, but it is reduced with the help of vent teamspeak etc. microing has noo "add-on" to help in it and unskilled players usually lose focus if they try to micro too quickly, thus it is equally difficult.

henchmen cannot comprehend complicated builds and would only make it worse for the team sometimes. thus microing is needed to add the fair advantage

heroes add a different game play to pvp. microing is an aspect of pvp that is overlooked but equally important in the realm of the competitive. microing and player coordination are 2 different situations and tatics, and it adds more creativity to the game.

it should be seen in the same light of Hero battles as heroes are allowed to be used in it and it adds colour to the gameplay.

adding heroes with fixed set of skills will stagnate and make gameplay stale. there will be builds revolved around countering those henchman builds and the creativity of the range of skill build design will be limited. GW is only better than other games because of the unique game play which is mostly made up of the skill build selection. GW pvp world is a constantly changing world and the builds keep changing too, with the static build of the henches, players would find it hard to adapt.

the fact is the underlying problem is not solved if heroes are being removed from gameplay. they play an important role to both skilled and unskilled players as they help find people within their skill range. there are already henchmen provided in this areas but the reason why they are not used is not because of the skill compatibility but the fact that it is stale and does not change with the meta. pvp is about counters of skill builds and synergy. skill compatibility could also be measured in its adaptation to the current pvp situation.it greatly limits the number of strategy present, and thus people would rather not play than use the henchemen, and it would only result in less people doing this pvp grounds.

what is the difference between a hero and a henchemen anyway other than the flexibility of skill build?

the context and intention are meant just for fillers for low ranked teams, but if high ranked teams are not using it,it just shows they are not compatible for play and does not serve the purpose of the group if it doesnt even work out for a win.

Anet can change the skill anytime and make builds obsolete. the only builds that survive are those 1.using underused skills that wont get change or 2.meta builds like shock axe WoH healer
the problem of the first is that underused skills dont usually compliment the meta and cant usually fit into most formations , while the problem of the second is that the playable builds are usually important enought to be needed to be taken by a player, and no one would ever let a henchmen play it for them eg. frontlines and infuse monks

(edit)

Just say no to heroes in PvP.
Besides, Little Thom has a trash mouth on vent.

If you say no to heroes in PvP then you should also say no to henchies in PvP. They are worse than heroes.

There's no diversity lost unless you're planning on not playing with a full team.

Heroes are easier to exploit (Tease Hero etc) and Henchmen can't be exploited really. Henchies are good for fooling around, but depending on your hero setup, you can actually play fairly serious with heroes and win some games because their AI is too "good" at certain tasks, better than any player, and you can make builds that exploit that AI. Henchmen have viable generic builds but nothing that couldn't be played better by a human a lot easier, and that's the key difference.

I agree heroes are easy to exploit and they also have the biggest game bug the game has ever seen. Many matches come down to corpse control in halls. example: Someone dies on a spike on altar in a king of the hill match. A hero gets a well of profaine up with no 40/40 faster then a necrotic traversel human can traverse to the corpse. You can not tell me that the necro is late because he uses pod and while pod is casting he has nt selected to be used right away after. Neither of them using 40/40 the 3 second cast well goes up before the 1 second cast nt. This is because the hero ai is actually casting the spell before the target is dead. It has been a huge problem for teams not actually running crappy hexways.

I fully support the removal of heroes and if people can't play with out the heroes then go pve please. High end pvp aka gvg is not for you.

Are some of you completely missing the posts where people want neither heroes nor henchmen in PvP?

Learn to make friends geez.

You just said it, henchmen suck. The team, who doesn't have enough human players would be in a HUGE disadvantage. How is this going to be a fair fight? So what is the point of taking part in GvG/HA if you dont have enough human players? Who would enter a pvp match to lose?

Therefore, having henchmen replace heroes is a stupid move. ANet might as well just remove heroes and do nothing else about it since they have been complaining how busy they are.

Daesu, if you don't have enough human players, then simply don't play pvp. Because pvp is about PLAYER VERSUS PLAYER NOT ABOUT HERO AI VS PLAYER.

I have no problem with AI in GvG, it just forces the players on the other team to micromanage a bit more, making them more susceptible to panic and overloading themselves. Although I think interrupt skills should have a lowered rate of use unless a human player pings an enemy is using Empathy or what-not, to SOMEWHAT emulate human reactions.

/facepalm
I apologize for my humor..(or lack there of)
MY point is exactly that, no heroes OR hench should be allowed.
The whole point of PvP is : Player vs. Player.
And before anyone QQ about the lack of f-list, guild, ect. being on at the same time you are...guesting is funzor.
If you wanna swim in the big pool with the 'good teams', get better, and make more friends. (Not an insult..just a fact)

Except for the part where the best teams are the ones that use heroes.

Then IMHO they aren't the best...they rely on hero/hench to carry them.

Right, because it takes less skill to micro additional characters!

Selket, Do you really think they herowayers micro their smiter hero, (max 1 skill, so hard...), hexer hero, me/rt tease hero?...
Don't make a joke of yourself please..

So I guess things I did to hold halls clearly never happened?

Tease claim resource, micro weapons, micro roj to actually kill things?

Nope never did those, it can't be possible. I guess I've never played with heroes before.

ther r moving heros from pvp soon

That's kind of like saying:

"What's the difference between a lump of clay and a rock?"

Customization is everything

yes you can make more friends and wait for same time join good guild etc

but using heroes is also part of strategic playing
you also need skills to micro hero to synergise in combos
some people purposely bring heroes just because they can coordinate better and i dont see a problem in that, it cant be considered unfair, if a person is good enough to play 2 people's role why deprive him the priveledge of doing so

if hero's AI is so bugged, wad is the diff with with henchmen AI anyway
hero AI btw is not that good for all classes or builds. it has its strengths and flaws and we shouldnt be so dismissive just because people are abusing its strength.

I don't agree with this so called contest and the only thing I agree with is removing heroes from PvP. They really should remove henchmen as well but they'd rather bloat the game more with useless things.