Great patch.
Love the added content.
Sept 1st Update
beaverlegions
Martin Alvito
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shasgaliel
Naahh. They can do it in a bit smarter way. For example we added some random number generation in our internal queueing strings. At same time we optimized some of the queries and there was no difference in performance for the outside world.
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Originally Posted by moriz
if that likelihood gets reduced down to around 10%, even with perfect timing, then i'd say anet has done a good enough job. there won't be anyone attempting a sync with that kind of success rate.
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Suppose ten players attempt to sync in simultaneously and play with whomever they draw. You won't be able to just call your team that way, but you'll land 2/4 sync regularly and 3/4 sync occasionally. Since there are far, far fewer sync teams in existence, the relative advantage conferred actually increases.
Sync joins are one of those interesting problems where an ineffective prohibition can actually make the problem worse. If you strengthen the incentives to cheat, but cannot fully prevent cheating through enforcement, you can inadvertently make the problem worse.
The Scorpion Knight
Better late then never.
Raccoon
I'm not really fussed about syncing.
Too many idiots in RA anyway, can't blame anyone for trying to sync it.
Too many idiots in RA anyway, can't blame anyone for trying to sync it.
Abedeus
HAAA HAHAH! HAAAA HAHAHA!!
If you are asking, I'm laughing at all the people that keep living in denial because "syncing is not a bug".
Hohohoho.
If you are asking, I'm laughing at all the people that keep living in denial because "syncing is not a bug".
Hohohoho.
Lexar
5 of us in our guild all felt like FA yesterday, and we regularly got into the same team before and after the update. No noticable difference.
Not so sure what has been changed but I have a suspision that they're just stating it was a bug that has been fixed, and hope people won't bother to attempt to sync now, which would also fix it?
Not so sure what has been changed but I have a suspision that they're just stating it was a bug that has been fixed, and hope people won't bother to attempt to sync now, which would also fix it?
eyekwah2
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Fixed a bug that allowed teams to sync join in random PvP. ... It's still possible to sync in random PvP areas. |
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I promise as the president of the united states to cut taxes ... Next week taxes will be raised by 5% |
Kattar
Changes are in RA Lexar, not FA.
Rhamia Darigaz
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Originally Posted by Abedeus
HAAA HAHAH! HAAAA HAHAHA!!
If you are asking, I'm laughing at all the people that keep living in denial because "syncing is not a bug". Hohohoho. |
zelgadissan
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Originally Posted by Katsumi
Changes are in RA Lexar, not FA.
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Oh, and since we're on page 5:
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Originally Posted by me
Although I predict by...let's say page 5 there will be a screenshot of a guild team, whether it's RA, JQ, or FA.
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although there have been several people say they got it to work.
dunky_g
syncing doesnt matter when your running a defy pain / Endure pain wammo!
Short
I haven't read any other posts in this thread but...
[edit] Miscellaneous
Nicholas the Traveler has been brushing up on his language skills.
Kun Shao has gone on vacation until the Xunlai Tournament House is able to distribute points for the month of May.
Fixed a bug that allowed teams to sync join in random PvP.
[edit] Guild Wars Wiki notes
It's still possible to sync in random PvP areas.
FAIL
[edit] Miscellaneous
Nicholas the Traveler has been brushing up on his language skills.
Kun Shao has gone on vacation until the Xunlai Tournament House is able to distribute points for the month of May.
Fixed a bug that allowed teams to sync join in random PvP.
[edit] Guild Wars Wiki notes
It's still possible to sync in random PvP areas.
FAIL
Karate Jesus
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Short
I haven't read any other posts in this thread but...
[edit] Miscellaneous Nicholas the Traveler has been brushing up on his language skills. Kun Shao has gone on vacation until the Xunlai Tournament House is able to distribute points for the month of May. Fixed a bug that allowed teams to sync join in random PvP. [edit] Guild Wars Wiki notes It's still possible to sync in random PvP areas. FAIL |
For some reason every time I confirm that it's still possible to sync, my post gets deleted :/
deluxe
Played with some people with 400 hp casting meteor shower while being pummeled by 2 warrs.
Loving this so far! :S I really enjoy playing with the people from AD.
If it stays this way, the people who understand the game will stay away from RA.
Loving this so far! :S I really enjoy playing with the people from AD.
If it stays this way, the people who understand the game will stay away from RA.
upier
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Originally Posted by deluxe
If it stays this way, the people who understand the game will stay away from RA.
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I mean, not only is the game build up from the ground as a team game, in this particular format you play as a team, yet you enter solo.
!??!??!
Anyway - good to hear that syncing FA isn't a bug.
Fril Estelin
According to Linsey's devnotes of hell, the sync fix was supposed to be later with their bigger content update:
So maybe it's only a first step, or even a test?
Quote:
| Syncing Random - Our server programmer has been investigating how to fix this age-old problem of organized teams appearing in Random Arena, and we’re hoping to have the results in time for this build. |
icedwhitemocha
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Originally Posted by upier
Didn't they always?
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It's admittedly a stretch, but I almost feel like Anet has deleted an entire gametype tbh. I'd lobby for a tiered system segregated by total balth faction or glad points as mentioned above. At the *very* least, seperate international from the rest of the districts.
deluxe
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Originally Posted by upier
Didn't they always?
I mean, not only is the game build up from the ground as a team game, in this particular format you play as a team, yet you enter solo. !??!??! |
I'd play Alliance Battles if I wanted to play with players who have no understanding of the game.
Vazze
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Originally Posted by Martin Alvito
Any deterministic mechanism (like you suggest) can be inducted from data. Players will (quickly) isolate the mechanism and determine the strategy that maximizes the likelihood of landing in the same group.
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Shasgaliel
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Originally Posted by Vazze
If I am not mistaken they did not change the grouping algorithm, they just combined the districts. This is not enough. What moriz suggested (full randomization) is too much calculation indeed but there is no need for huge calculations to have better results, very simple non-random shuffling mechanisms should work here (for example separate odd and even ranks). ...but to be honest I wouldn't mind a grouping algorithm where my Balt faction directly determines my grouping rank...
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Zahr Dalsk
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Originally Posted by BlackSephir
How bad can you get at the game?
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The main reason for syncing is that people hated getting teamed up with people using PvE characters with a skill bar of Power Attack, Frenzy, Dolyak Signet, and Flare. Personally I prefer to just enter, play if there's a good team, resign and wait for game end if there isn't, but syncing was more efficient.
Srak Scream
4v4 meta in general is shit
cant wait for sealed deck, if done properly will be a true test of skill
cant wait for sealed deck, if done properly will be a true test of skill
pinguinius
Not enough people play anymore to entirely get rid of syncing without fundamentally changing the way groups are formed.
I recently got an RA team on my monk with another monk. We both /resigned and waited to be killed. Then, we likely immediately searched again, ending up with us both on the same team for a second time. We resigned again, died, and for a third time got on the same team the next round. This wasn't at odd hours, either, it was in the US districts at around 8:00 local time.
So basically, if you get 4+ guild members/friends searching at the same time, they're likely going to get in the same game even with this change.
I recently got an RA team on my monk with another monk. We both /resigned and waited to be killed. Then, we likely immediately searched again, ending up with us both on the same team for a second time. We resigned again, died, and for a third time got on the same team the next round. This wasn't at odd hours, either, it was in the US districts at around 8:00 local time.
So basically, if you get 4+ guild members/friends searching at the same time, they're likely going to get in the same game even with this change.
My New Name
In the end it wasn't a very useful update,was it?
Sankt Hallvard
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pelorin Eshmar
In the end it wasn't a very useful update,was it?
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They make a big announcement about changes that will be made with some tough decisions. Then a few days later they have actually "fixed ra syncing", but they have not! Wow, that's a big /facepalm right there.
I've never posted as much on guru as I have these past few days. I've always thought anet was more or less in control of the changes they make but now it seems its derailing completely.
They are removing TA because they lack resources to balance it properly? They could smiters boon stonesoul strike/holy strike and the arena would be perfectly playable. Those skills are used NO WHERE ELSE. Not even in pve!
And wtf is up with the latest buffs? LC at 5e and 10r and they end up having to nerf it to 15e and reduced effect and it's still playable. It seems they want to completely change up the gameplay. They are nearly desperate to force casters and assassins into play. Broken hexes and a lot of random buffs to sin skills that somehow end up being better utilized on rangers!
If all pvp'ers were given a poll I'm sure the vast majority would just smiters boon sins out of the game completely. The class seems only favored by "narutos" and I don't even know what naruto means. Does it really take that much resources to roll back the latest skill update? The fact that the r/a template is being (ab)used across ALL pvp formats should be a clear indicator it's OP? Yes? No?
Master Ketsu
Quote:
| They are removing TA because they lack resources to balance it properly? |
To repost what I suggested in the TA forums:
================================================== ============
Foul Feast: 0...1...2 energy. Max 5 energy gained. ( Would also help HA and GvG )
Plague sending: 5E, 12R -or- 2 sec cast time.
August skill update 2009: Revert it. ( Would also Help HA and GvG )
-ALL No att/unlinked shadow step skills- : Move to critical strikes, 50% failure with CS 4 or less. ( Would also Help pretty much every pvp format there is )
Shove: Fails if you are enchanted.
Visions of regret: Conditional damage negation applied to all hexes, not just Mesmer ones. ( Would also Help HA and GvG )
Distortion: Duration based on illusion, energy loss based on Fast casting. ( or some similar nerf that causes the skill to be only usable by Me/ ) ( Would also Help HA and GvG)
Mind blast: 0...3...6 energy. ( Would also Help HA and GvG )
Primal Rage: Smiters boon. ( Would also Help HA and GvG )
Shield Bash: 3 sec duration @ 0 strength. ( Would also Help HA and GvG )
================================================== ============
None of these are really that hard to understand.
moriz
the last skill update was the perfect example of why sin skills should never be buffed. the R/A builds with fast dagger attacks is beyond ridiculous. i mean, if those buffs were meant for pve use, then make them pve only changes.
Still Number One
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Originally Posted by moriz
the last skill update was the perfect example of why sin skills should never be buffed. the R/A builds with fast dagger attacks is beyond ridiculous. i mean, if those buffs were meant for pve use, then make them pve only changes.
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Windf0rce
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Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard
just smiters boon sins out of the game completely
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And I love it how the smiter's boon nerf became such a classic.
moriz
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Originally Posted by Still Number One
I'd say the fact that they pretty much have perma 75% blocking is the reason they are OP and not really the dagger skills. The dagger skills certainly contributed to it and obviously pushed the build from being good to OP, but I don't see a sin using that chain as a major threat. It is only a large enough threat to actually see significant playtime because of the stances. I think if you make escape end on non-bow attacks, the build is no longer OP.
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remember, the same template has been around for ages, using roughly the same skills. it's only after the fast activating dagger attacks came into play that really pushed it over the top.
Still Number One
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Originally Posted by moriz
the build can execute its full combo in approximately 2-3 seconds, and it recharges in around 2 seconds also. although the damage is generally not fatal, its sheer speed as well as its general invulnerability makes it seriously OP.
remember, the same template has been around for ages, using roughly the same skills. it's only after the fast activating dagger attacks came into play that really pushed it over the top. |
They have the ability to cause bleeding, cripple, and exhaustion as well as the ability to spam AoE damage. However, they do not have a reliable source of deep wound (if you bring impale you probably lose your snare) and they have no knock down ability. I believe if you get rid of their ability to have almost perma defense, you make them significantly less effective than a warrior would be at killing.
They kill through constant pressure and the fact that it is impossible for anything but blind and hexes to relieve that pressure is why we deem them OP.
Sure you can get rid of the 1/2 activation of the attack skills and hurt their ability to kill (which could kill the bar) or you could decrease their ability to stay alive (which I believe would also kill the bar).
I personally favor making them more vulnerable as opposed to making it harder for them to kill. But as the build annoys me, I would welcome either change to it.
zelgadissan
Escape has been a gimmick-based elite for ages, I remember seeing teams with multiple R/D Escape scythes in Tombs at least a year ago, I think maybe closer to two. I still don't understand why it doesn't end on attack, but I suppose that's quite off-topic.
I'm hoping (keyword: hoping) that this was a test by Anet to see how their first plan would work - by announcing syncing was dead, they would assume everybody would go try even harder to sync, which hopefully gives them the data they need to fix it for good. Sadly though, I think I might be giving Anet far too much credit.
I'm hoping (keyword: hoping) that this was a test by Anet to see how their first plan would work - by announcing syncing was dead, they would assume everybody would go try even harder to sync, which hopefully gives them the data they need to fix it for good. Sadly though, I think I might be giving Anet far too much credit.
Master Ketsu
I don't know how many times I have repeated this, but Escape is not the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing reason for sway and all ranger builds associated with it being overpowered. The only reason those builds use Escape is because they have no need for a real elite. Escape is filler. The current R/A Dagger version needs no elite because the low recharge and fast attacks give Rangers the ability of Mobius strike-Blossom spam without actually having to use mobius strike. With the previous R/D version, Escape was used because low cost derv skills and pious assault allowed for deep wound spam and high damage without Wounding strike. Escape is a filler elite that allows rangers who are using overpowered non-elite combos to rush in and spam said overpowered combos.
In other words, escape if anything is actually an underpowered skill. The reason for those builds being overpowered is the attack chains they use, not escape. If escape was changed to end on attack, it would never see the light of day on the bar of any semi competent player. Instead, rangers would just rework their build to use natural stride and add in some other elite to make up for it ( R/A would use Assault or shatter, no doubt. Some already do. )
Stop saying escape is the problem. It isn't. It never was. You are bad and should feel bad for thinking it is.
In other words, escape if anything is actually an underpowered skill. The reason for those builds being overpowered is the attack chains they use, not escape. If escape was changed to end on attack, it would never see the light of day on the bar of any semi competent player. Instead, rangers would just rework their build to use natural stride and add in some other elite to make up for it ( R/A would use Assault or shatter, no doubt. Some already do. )
Stop saying escape is the problem. It isn't. It never was. You are bad and should feel bad for thinking it is.
zelgadissan
I never said Escape was the problem - I agree the much bigger issue is the dagger chains, and I'm fully aware that a lot of teams have advanced to two Escapes and an Assault - my point is that nearly constant 33% IMS and 75% block on top of 1/2c chains just adds to the retardedness of the build. When combined it's basically pre-nerf Primal Rage without double damage.
The only time it gets used is for gimmick builds, so where's the problem with getting rid of it at the same time as these ridiculous 1/2 activation attacks? (BTW I know I'm bad
)
The only time it gets used is for gimmick builds, so where's the problem with getting rid of it at the same time as these ridiculous 1/2 activation attacks? (BTW I know I'm bad
)
lemming
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Master Ketsu
I don't know how many times I have repeated this, but Escape is not the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing reason for sway and all ranger builds associated with it being overpowered. The only reason those builds use Escape is because they have no need for a real elite. Escape is filler. The current R/A Dagger version needs no elite because the low recharge and fast attacks give Rangers the ability of Mobius strike-Blossom spam without actually having to use mobius strike. With the previous R/D version, Escape was used because low cost derv skills and pious assault allowed for deep wound spam and high damage without Wounding strike. Escape is a filler elite that allows rangers who are using overpowered non-elite combos to rush in and spam said overpowered combos.
In other words, escape if anything is actually an underpowered skill. The reason for those builds being overpowered is the attack chains they use, not escape. If escape was changed to end on attack, it would never see the light of day on the bar of any semi competent player. Instead, rangers would just rework their build to use natural stride and add in some other elite to make up for it ( R/A would use Assault or shatter, no doubt. Some already do. ) Stop saying escape is the problem. It isn't. It never was. You are bad and should feel bad for thinking it is. |
It was awful.
Still Number One
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Master Ketsu
I don't know how many times I have repeated this, but Escape is not the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing reason for sway and all ranger builds associated with it being overpowered. The only reason those builds use Escape is because they have no need for a real elite. Escape is filler. The current R/A Dagger version needs no elite because the low recharge and fast attacks give Rangers the ability of Mobius strike-Blossom spam without actually having to use mobius strike. With the previous R/D version, Escape was used because low cost derv skills and pious assault allowed for deep wound spam and high damage without Wounding strike. Escape is a filler elite that allows rangers who are using overpowered non-elite combos to rush in and spam said overpowered combos.
In other words, escape if anything is actually an underpowered skill. The reason for those builds being overpowered is the attack chains they use, not escape. If escape was changed to end on attack, it would never see the light of day on the bar of any semi competent player. Instead, rangers would just rework their build to use natural stride and add in some other elite to make up for it ( R/A would use Assault or shatter, no doubt. Some already do. ) Stop saying escape is the problem. It isn't. It never was. You are bad and should feel bad for thinking it is. |
It is because the chain really isn't that good. It is just very effective at pressure over time due to the fact that it activates them so quickly and often as well as having the ability to cause exhaustion. However in order for that pressure to kick in, they actually have to stay alive. The 8 second upkeep and 4 second downtime of escape allows them to do this, and if they get into trouble during those 4 seconds they can active lightning reflexes to save them. Without the ability to be able to permanently block 75% of the physical damage done to them, they would take too much damage and would not be able to effectively pressure. That is what linebacking is for after all, to relieve pressure.
If you give the enemy a window of opportunity to kill you, you will die. Escape pretty much keeps that window permanently shut and allows them to do their damage.
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Originally Posted by tehlemming
People ran Jagged/Fox Fangs/Blossom on sin primaries the first couple days of the update.
It was awful. |
Tearz1993
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Originally Posted by moriz
remember, the same template has been around for ages, using roughly the same skills. it's only after the fast activating dagger attacks came into play that really pushed it over the top.
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Perfected Shadow
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Originally Posted by Still Number One
If the attack chain was the problem then why don't people use it on assassins instead of R/A's?
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So the problem is the combination of expertise, fast activation/spammable dagger chain, and blocking to stay alive?
Still Number One
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Perfected Shadow
So the problem is the combination of expertise, fast activation/spammable dagger chain, and blocking to stay alive?
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FoxBat
Jagged->Fox mashing isn't really any better than moebius spam (barring orders/weapons that aren't used in half the builds). The difference is moebius is elite, which prevents you from using.... (dun dun dun) ESCAPE (or assault enchants but meh....)