**************************************************
(TL;DR)
*Proposal*
Change the cost of unlocking a skill from 1 Skill Point and 1 Platinum...
...to...
... 1 Skill Point and 100 Gold.
This still makes it a Gold Sink, but doesn't punish the player too much because he/she does not grind just to unlock the game.
This game is based all about the Skill Bar and the Skills that you use, and it is terrible that it is limited severly because of an arbitrary Gold Sink.
**************************************************
(LONG VERSION)
Currently it costs 1 Skill Point and 1 Platinum(1000 Gold) to unlock a Skill.
The problem I have with this is that, you unlock Skill Points faster than you obtain Gold, from just playing the game normally.
Normal Is:
*Doing missions and selling every item you find.*
*Running through Instance Zones(Town to Town) killing monsters along the way.
*[Both above without using any CHEESE(Starcraft reference) farming builds.]
For my characters, and I have 8[No Primary Monk and Paragon(9th Character Slot is for PvP)]; I have on average for each character about 100-130 unspent Skill Points.
Now my Bank Account between all my characters is 100 Platinum in the storage, which is supplemented by the occasional trading if I see a really good deal to make some gold.
*Proposal*
Change the cost of unlocking a skill from 1 Skill Point and 1 Platinum...
...to...
... 1 Skill Point and 100 Gold.
This still makes it a Gold Sink, but doesn't punish the player too much because he/she does not grind just to unlock the game.
This game is based all about the Skill Bar and the Skills that you use, and it is terrible that it is limited severly because of an arbitrary Gold Sink.
**************************************************
(STORY)
When I tried introducing someone to this game a few years ago when it was still just the Prophecies Campaign, he liked the No Monthly Fee philosophy about it.
But when I showed him what it would take to fully unlock the character Skill Wise, he got turned off.
**************************************************
(CONCLUSION)
You shouldn't have to farm or grind to utilize an aspect of a game, when that aspect of the game is the core purpose of what defines it.
In Guild Wars' case, the Skills and the Skill Bar.
**************************************************
Changing The Cost of Unlocking Skills in PvE.
Jimyd
MagmaRed
Be glad they added the 1k cap to the price. It didnt' use to stop increasing in cost. But unlocking skills is not that hard. Prophecies has many quests that unlock skills with no money or skill point cost. PvP allows skills to be unlocked with no money or skill points.
I have 2 accounts and 15 PvE characters. I have never had problems with money and skills or skill points. All of my characters have ALL of their primary class skills and 5 of my characters have all of their secondary class skills unlocked.
If it is a problem for you, you are doing things wrong. Between Balthazar Faction and hero skill trainers and skill quests, there isn't a reason to have trouble paying 1k for a skill.
I have 2 accounts and 15 PvE characters. I have never had problems with money and skills or skill points. All of my characters have ALL of their primary class skills and 5 of my characters have all of their secondary class skills unlocked.
If it is a problem for you, you are doing things wrong. Between Balthazar Faction and hero skill trainers and skill quests, there isn't a reason to have trouble paying 1k for a skill.
Jimyd
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by MagmaRed
Be glad they added the 1k cap to the price. It didnt' use to stop increasing in cost. But unlocking skills is not that hard. Prophecies has many quests that unlock skills with no money or skill point cost. PvP allows skills to be unlocked with no money or skill points.
I have 2 accounts and 15 PvE characters. I have never had problems with money and skills or skill points. All of my characters have ALL of their primary class skills and 5 of my characters have all of their secondary class skills unlocked. If it is a problem for you, you are doing things wrong. Between Balthazar Faction and hero skill trainers and skill quests, there isn't a reason to have trouble paying 1k for a skill. |
Hero Skill Trainers are limited to certain skills.
Skill Quests, only unlock a very small portion of skills, and that is from your Home Campaign that your character came from.
*NOTE*
I should add, I took a 1.5 year break from the game, since last week. But none of my characters have even unlocked their Primary Proffesion Skills yet, and I don't own EoTN.
I'm currently grinding away with my Elementalist right now,JUST FOR GOLD, to unlock skills.
Refer to this table, and do the math:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Skill#By_cost
It costs roughly on average, 100 Platinum, per a character to unlock their Primary Proffesion Skills; ONLY.
That is about 100,000 gold(more if PROPH,less if FACT/NF) just to unlock your Primary Proffesion.
Chocobo1
You might as well let them start with every skill then. Why does everyone think things in this game should be easier? There is no point at all for this, you can buy the essential skills at the start of the game pretty cheaply, and once you have a base of around 20 skills you can then expand on this for 1 plat each.
Jimyd
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Chocobo1
You might as well let them start with every skill then. Why does everyone think things in this game should be easier? There is no point at all for this, you can buy the essential skills at the start of the game pretty cheaply, and once you have a base of around 20 skills you can then expand on this for 1 plat each.
|
At this point in the game.
There are already/plenty enough cosmetic Gold Sinks in the game to warrant a rebalance of the cost of skills.
I would be okay with the 1 Platinum cost, if you were to unlock a skill for 1 PvE character, it would unlock all those skills for your other PvE characters ONLY; once you have ascended.
Jimyd
The problem is, I don't want to see this unlock method carry over to Guild Wars 2, and hinder the core of the game. Because a DEV justs copy+pastes, the easy way.
Guild Wars' core has always been about the Skills and the Skill Bar.
Gold drops in very small proportions and is split 8 ways, assuming you are playing the game as a normal team/party.
80 Gold found is really 10.
Guild Wars' core has always been about the Skills and the Skill Bar.
Gold drops in very small proportions and is split 8 ways, assuming you are playing the game as a normal team/party.
80 Gold found is really 10.
Chocobo1
There are so many ways to make money 1 plat is a joke. This game has far changed from just Prophecies. Even if you only buy Prophecies, it's still pretty easy to make money, it's not like back at the start where setting up a 55 Monk or Necro would be financial suicide.
Daisuko
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Jimyd
The problem is, I don't want to see this unlock method carry over to Guild Wars 2, and hinder the core of the game. Because a DEV justs copy+pastes, the easy way.
Guild Wars' core has always been about the Skills and the Skill Bar. Gold drops in very small proportions and is split 8 ways, assuming you are playing the game as a normal team/party. 80 Gold found is really 8. |
80 / 8 = 10
Marverick
Cheese is integral to the game; the threat of cheese forces people to not cut corners. If you remove the cheese then everyone would be 14ccing and whatnot.
So by your reference then farming is an integral part of Guild Wars and should not be removed.
1k is not a lot. When I first started playing I bought every single skill I thought was interesting, and I still had enough money without farming.
So by your reference then farming is an integral part of Guild Wars and should not be removed.
1k is not a lot. When I first started playing I bought every single skill I thought was interesting, and I still had enough money without farming.
Jimyd
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Marverick
Cheese is integral to the game; the threat of cheese forces people to not cut corners. If you remove the cheese then everyone would be 14ccing and whatnot.
So by your reference then farming is an integral part of Guild Wars and should not be removed. 1k is not a lot. When I first started playing I bought every single skill I thought was interesting, and I still had enough money without farming. |
...that plays on average on the small end, 4 hours a day; to the mid, 8 hours a day; and to the long, 12 hours a day?
Playing 5/7 days of the week.
N E D M
I always thought it should cost 1 platinum OR 1 skill point rather than both.
Daisuko
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Jimyd
So how long do you think it should take a person, that is brand new to the game, to earn 1,000,000 gold to fully unlock 1 character...
...that plays on average on the small end, 4 hours a day; to the mid, 8 hours a day; and to the long, 12 hours a day? Playing 5/7 days of the week. |
Personally, I unlocked every non-elite skill from playing Alliance Battles and buying them with Balthazar Faction over the course of... oh, less than a month. And this was 2 years ago. It's much, MUCH easier now that there are zaishen quests.
I'm sure if you tried to fail less you could unlock all of the skills in the game (non-elites) in about 2~3 weeks.
If you're still having problems, ArenaNet DOES sell a "skill unlock pack" for about 5 bucks to unlock all the skills for a campaign, something like 15~20 total to unlock all of them.
EDIT : I like how you're still trying to justify your comments with math when you fail at the most basic of math.
Sindo
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Jimyd
So how long do you think it should take a person, that is brand new to the game, to earn 1,000,000 gold to fully unlock 1 character...
...that plays on average on the small end, 4 hours a day; to the mid, 8 hours a day; and to the long, 12 hours a day? Playing 5/7 days of the week. |
Jimyd
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by N E D M
I always thought it should cost 1 platinum OR 1 skill point rather than both.
|
/10THIS.
That is what really should be done.
Sindo
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Jimyd
This, right here.
/10THIS. That is what really should be done. |
Daisuko
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Sindo
That is what really should be done about what? THERE IS NO PROBLEM.
|
Lux Aeterna
Absolutely yes, I mean really you could even make it cost 0 gold, that would really make me happy.
I'm so so sick of random who have barely any skills and can't run any builds, if skills costed significantly less it might mean that more random pug players would have a non-horrible build + skill pool, leading to less of the massive epic fail we see in random GW players.
It'd be even better if we dropped the attribute quests -- drop useless attribute quests, make skills free except for skill points, and I'd have to kick fewer people for being worthless due to their builds.
Right now I want to try a new build, but I'm stuck because I only have 876 gold and need to either sell ectos or gold items just to make 120g for my skill.
Vote: Remove attribute quests, make skills cost 50g. This would make most of the player base suck less.
This would also eliminate some of the intolerably awful hero builds we see these days,
I for one would love that even though my heroes rock (my heroes rock because I spent like 100k on them).
Do the devs read these forums?
I'm so so sick of random who have barely any skills and can't run any builds, if skills costed significantly less it might mean that more random pug players would have a non-horrible build + skill pool, leading to less of the massive epic fail we see in random GW players.
It'd be even better if we dropped the attribute quests -- drop useless attribute quests, make skills free except for skill points, and I'd have to kick fewer people for being worthless due to their builds.
Right now I want to try a new build, but I'm stuck because I only have 876 gold and need to either sell ectos or gold items just to make 120g for my skill.
Vote: Remove attribute quests, make skills cost 50g. This would make most of the player base suck less.
This would also eliminate some of the intolerably awful hero builds we see these days,
I for one would love that even though my heroes rock (my heroes rock because I spent like 100k on them).
Do the devs read these forums?
Gboy Mesmero
you know bold and underline is used to emphasize words
all you are doing is making your post very hard to read by doing that to every other word
anyway on topic
you don't need every single skill to progress through the game
just get what you like, and just stick with it for a while, then repeat
all you are doing is making your post very hard to read by doing that to every other word
anyway on topic
you don't need every single skill to progress through the game
just get what you like, and just stick with it for a while, then repeat
Verene
Things cost money. Consider the money cost paying for the time that the skill trainer would be getting paid to actually teach your character the skill.
It's not hugely difficult to make small amounts of money in the game, even if you don't do anything special. I made something like 20k just playing the game normally for a few hours each day on Friday and Saturday. True, I was in the Desolation and Realm of Torment, so stuff from there will sell for a bit more from earlier portions of the game, but even so. No farming or anything like that, just doing quests and missions in NM.
Why do you need to buy every skill for your character anyway? Half of mine haven't even hit the 1k per skill breakpoint yet, because I simply get the skills I absolutely need.
It's not hugely difficult to make small amounts of money in the game, even if you don't do anything special. I made something like 20k just playing the game normally for a few hours each day on Friday and Saturday. True, I was in the Desolation and Realm of Torment, so stuff from there will sell for a bit more from earlier portions of the game, but even so. No farming or anything like that, just doing quests and missions in NM.
Why do you need to buy every skill for your character anyway? Half of mine haven't even hit the 1k per skill breakpoint yet, because I simply get the skills I absolutely need.
Saph
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Verene
Why do you need to buy every skill for your character anyway? Half of mine haven't even hit the 1k per skill breakpoint yet, because I simply get the skills I absolutely need. |
But I've never had to grind for gold for skills. 1k is pretty simple to make imo. I think it should be a toss up between choosing to spend skill points or gold on skills. I look through most of my characters and see thousands of unspent and pretty much useless skill points, so they should be integrated more into getting skills. That way, if I dont have the money at that moment I can choose to pay in X amount of skill points, or if I dont have enough skill points, I can choose to pay in gold.
Verene
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Saph
I like my characters to have an array of skills, because I like to try new skill combinations and what not. Makes playing more fun for me personally.
|
but in general, you really do not need to buy every single skill you see in the window when you visit a skill trainer.
Liam_UK
imo get rid of skill points there a waste of time, the onlything people use them for now is to make cons with and even doin that skill points are a waste of time, about what this guys saying moaning that 1k is to much for skills for a new player, you got to think here really, 8 skills with a new chars only going to cost you around 1k its self, and a new player aint gonna want every skill for there chars when they have JUST started playing the game
imo jimydy your posting is a waste of your time, skills are fine at 1k, with out farming and just playing through the game
ive been playing the game for 5--6 months ive gt my main char with all skills and most on all 5 secondary profs
imo jimydy your posting is a waste of your time, skills are fine at 1k, with out farming and just playing through the game
ive been playing the game for 5--6 months ive gt my main char with all skills and most on all 5 secondary profs
MirkoTeran
/no. They already made them much cheaper in the past and they even added skill tomes. People will always ask for more.
kazjun
You don't need to unlock all skills for a pve. I've got some skills I've never even put on my skill bar more than once or twice in over 4 years. Some secondaries are useless to some classes, eg, most caster secondaries are pointless on a warrior unless you're running a gimmick build.
Second, most classes have whole trees that have been nerfed to crap and shouldn't be taken at all unless running a gimmick build, eg tactics, motivation.
Third, many of the skills leftover are crap and unworthy of taking anyway, eg many older ele skills which are simply outdated.
Fourth, you can only bring 8 skills per bar anyway.
Get 8 skills you need, and a few extra to allow you some flexibility, the rest you can unlock if you want over time. Getting all skills unlocked on a pve char really is just vanity in most cases, so not really essential to play the game. Though I guess you do get skill hunter titles from it, then again thats vanity too.
Second, most classes have whole trees that have been nerfed to crap and shouldn't be taken at all unless running a gimmick build, eg tactics, motivation.
Third, many of the skills leftover are crap and unworthy of taking anyway, eg many older ele skills which are simply outdated.
Fourth, you can only bring 8 skills per bar anyway.
Get 8 skills you need, and a few extra to allow you some flexibility, the rest you can unlock if you want over time. Getting all skills unlocked on a pve char really is just vanity in most cases, so not really essential to play the game. Though I guess you do get skill hunter titles from it, then again thats vanity too.
Louva A Deus
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Jimyd
So how long do you think it should take a person, that is brand new to the game, to earn 1,000,000 gold to fully unlock 1 character...
...that plays on average on the small end, 4 hours a day; to the mid, 8 hours a day; and to the long, 12 hours a day? Playing 5/7 days of the week. |
wilebill
Hero trainers in Nightfall will unlock skills for the character you are playing and heroes. You gain hero points for this by just playing normally. Hold down the Alt key to see if there is a hero trainer where you are if you are in Nightfall. See wiki.
Make sure you have an Identification Kit and identify golds and blues to make them sell for more. You will eventually want to carry an Identification Kit, a Salvage Kit, and a Superior Salvage Kit. Some times a blue or gold armor drop will have a rune. Harvest the rune with a superior salvage kit. Talk to a rune dealer to see what the prices are on various runes. Some are nearly worthless but some of these sell for hundreds of g, up to several plat. Then too, you or your heroes may be able to use the rune or inscription.
Some materials are worth a lot. Salvaging common drops may be worth it, but see a materials trader for the current prices on various materials. See wiki. Some dyes, black, white, silver, red, sell for a good amount.
Just running an area with a full group of hench or heroes and hench should net anywhere from a few hundred g up to a plat or two. Maybe more.
"Cheese" farming builds ... some of these are not too hard! Especially if you start with lower level easy farming. (All your loot are belong to me!)
I've never had any problems with plat in the game. Only 100 g in storage? I cannot understand why. The change most of us want is an increase in the amount of k you can have in storage! 1000 k is too tight a shoe!
Skill prices are are not unreasonable.
Make sure you have an Identification Kit and identify golds and blues to make them sell for more. You will eventually want to carry an Identification Kit, a Salvage Kit, and a Superior Salvage Kit. Some times a blue or gold armor drop will have a rune. Harvest the rune with a superior salvage kit. Talk to a rune dealer to see what the prices are on various runes. Some are nearly worthless but some of these sell for hundreds of g, up to several plat. Then too, you or your heroes may be able to use the rune or inscription.
Some materials are worth a lot. Salvaging common drops may be worth it, but see a materials trader for the current prices on various materials. See wiki. Some dyes, black, white, silver, red, sell for a good amount.
Just running an area with a full group of hench or heroes and hench should net anywhere from a few hundred g up to a plat or two. Maybe more.
"Cheese" farming builds ... some of these are not too hard! Especially if you start with lower level easy farming. (All your loot are belong to me!)
I've never had any problems with plat in the game. Only 100 g in storage? I cannot understand why. The change most of us want is an increase in the amount of k you can have in storage! 1000 k is too tight a shoe!
Skill prices are are not unreasonable.
MithranArkanere
New players already have reduced costs for the firsts skills a character acquires.
They can make new characters and buy the skills that appear in the first trainers with low cost.
I don't play more than 5 hours per week, Yet I have unlocked all skills, each of my characters owns all the skills of their primary profession, and one of them owns all skills but 2 (I'm leaving those for until I get the last 2 hero skill points).
No one should have any problem getting skills.
They can make new characters and buy the skills that appear in the first trainers with low cost.
I don't play more than 5 hours per week, Yet I have unlocked all skills, each of my characters owns all the skills of their primary profession, and one of them owns all skills but 2 (I'm leaving those for until I get the last 2 hero skill points).
No one should have any problem getting skills.
Aldric
The only change i would like to see is being able to buy a skill for no cash and 5/10 skill points but thats purely to use up the 600 or so my main has unused at this point.
Verene
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by wilebill
Make sure you have an Identification Kit and identify golds and blues to make them sell for more. You will eventually want to carry an Identification Kit, a Salvage Kit, and a Superior Salvage Kit. Some times a blue or gold armor drop will have a rune. Harvest the rune with a superior salvage kit. Talk to a rune dealer to see what the prices are on various runes. Some are nearly worthless but some of these sell for hundreds of g, up to several plat. Then too, you or your heroes may be able to use the rune or inscription.
|
Windf0rce
I don't support this because the game really needs some Gold sinks, skills are a huge sink, and while expensive, they are not really difficult to get eventually.
It's not hard to unlock the first few basic skills for a character, they will be all under 1 plat including Signets of Capture to create at least 2 basic bars with an elite on them.
Hero Skill Trainers in NF and EoTN also provide an excellent amount of free (and some GOOD) skills. Prophecies skills can be earned for free from quests, even though there are less of them available for non-tyrians (but then you can get them from skill trainers, too).
Some professions, such as Assassins, Rangers and Warriors have it even easier when it comes to learning skills, as their tomes are really common, thus cheap to acquire. Paragons and Dervishes are also easy due to smallest skill pool.
Monk would be the hardest with large skill pool and very hard to find/expensive tomes, but even then, there are many worthless skills that can be easily avoided for most of your character's life. I know I'm slowly learning my skills...
It's not hard to unlock the first few basic skills for a character, they will be all under 1 plat including Signets of Capture to create at least 2 basic bars with an elite on them.
Hero Skill Trainers in NF and EoTN also provide an excellent amount of free (and some GOOD) skills. Prophecies skills can be earned for free from quests, even though there are less of them available for non-tyrians (but then you can get them from skill trainers, too).
Some professions, such as Assassins, Rangers and Warriors have it even easier when it comes to learning skills, as their tomes are really common, thus cheap to acquire. Paragons and Dervishes are also easy due to smallest skill pool.
Monk would be the hardest with large skill pool and very hard to find/expensive tomes, but even then, there are many worthless skills that can be easily avoided for most of your character's life. I know I'm slowly learning my skills...
-Makai-
Hero skill points and tomes have already eased the process enough.
FoxBat
Just stick tomes into the scroll trader, that will reduce prices in a reasonable fashion.
Zahr Dalsk
I'd like the ability to either buy skills for 1 Skill Point and 1 platinum, or 10 Skill Points and no gold/platinum at all.
I hate the fact that skill points are gained ridiculously fast and end up just sitting there useless.
I hate the fact that skill points are gained ridiculously fast and end up just sitting there useless.
Axel Zinfandel
I tend to agree with the either or arguement. I never understood why it has to cost a skill point AND gold.
I'd like to see the skill system like the hero skill trainers in NF. 1 skill point gets you one skill (or 2 skill points), and you can pay the trainer 1 plat for a skill point.
though it's honestly not that important to me.
Also identify whites. No really, I'm not kidding. Identifying whites add to it's value,especially when the item is max or near max, which is probably the single most obscure known, common fact in GW. I've never done the math, but I almost guarantee you that it adds up to be worth it.
I'd like to see the skill system like the hero skill trainers in NF. 1 skill point gets you one skill (or 2 skill points), and you can pay the trainer 1 plat for a skill point.
though it's honestly not that important to me.
Quote:
| Make sure you have an Identification Kit and identify golds and blues to make them sell for more. You will eventually want to carry an Identification Kit, a Salvage Kit, and a Superior Salvage Kit. Some times a blue or gold armor drop will have a rune. Harvest the rune with a superior salvage kit. Talk to a rune dealer to see what the prices are on various runes. Some are nearly worthless but some of these sell for hundreds of g, up to several plat. Then too, you or your heroes may be able to use the rune or inscription. |