/notsigned.
There are other options for dealing with interrupts then MoR. And half the time you wont even need it. A good 600/smite pair can still do UW/FoW/whatever else without it. It's still usable in it's current form, only more energy heavy,and if it's that big a problem try using glyph of concentration.
Petition to split Mantra of Resolve for pvp/pve
mudkipz
Fate Crusher
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Age
Mantra of Resolve was used way before 600 and Raptor farming came into play.It was mainly used on the 55 for the UW and where interrupts were common.It now useless for this.
/sign for revert. |
Are you evil? Or do you play bspike?
Red Apple
Quote:
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Originally Posted by mudkipz
It's still usable in it's current form, only more energy heavy
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and by which professions it can be used efectively, without being a ele that is....
Perhaps I would agree with you if the recharge was less otherwise it seems like if the skill would fall into the underused skills pool(PvE) ...
Quote:
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Originally Posted by mudkipz
,and if it's that big a problem try using glyph of concentration.
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nanase ren
/Signed
Anet is Forcing more people to use sins making this game a joke
Anet is Forcing more people to use sins making this game a joke
Zesty
I don't see why everyone thinks this is a nerf for 600/Smite when it doesn't nerf any areas at all. Any area you would use MoR for can be done without it.
CoF - Mo/D with Light Of Deldrimor and Eternal Aura is faster than the Mo/Me anyways. As long as your a good 600 you shouldn't have any problems.
UW - Mo/W Frenzy and Pain Inverter, by far much better than MoR if your experienced enough.
Other Areas - There are no other popular areas where MoR is even a popular skill for 600/Smite.
It wasn't a 600/Smite nerf it was a PvP NERF THAT WASN'T SPLIT... Wake up. And I don't see why it matters if more people play Shadow Form if it is getting nerfed anyways. They can use it for max 2-3 months more before it is nerfed.
This is a pointless thread anyways. The way it hurts more than just 600/Smite farms makes it an obvious revert NEXT SKILL UPDATE. It makes me laugh to think that some of these people are mad that 1 of 9000 raptor farm builds was nerfed and some are mad because it supports SF even though SF will probably be nerfed next update anyway when is the only time they would revert the skill making 600/Smite a popular gimmick again that they'd probably want nerfed, although its not nerfed now anyways so...
CoF - Mo/D with Light Of Deldrimor and Eternal Aura is faster than the Mo/Me anyways. As long as your a good 600 you shouldn't have any problems.
UW - Mo/W Frenzy and Pain Inverter, by far much better than MoR if your experienced enough.
Other Areas - There are no other popular areas where MoR is even a popular skill for 600/Smite.
It wasn't a 600/Smite nerf it was a PvP NERF THAT WASN'T SPLIT... Wake up. And I don't see why it matters if more people play Shadow Form if it is getting nerfed anyways. They can use it for max 2-3 months more before it is nerfed.
This is a pointless thread anyways. The way it hurts more than just 600/Smite farms makes it an obvious revert NEXT SKILL UPDATE. It makes me laugh to think that some of these people are mad that 1 of 9000 raptor farm builds was nerfed and some are mad because it supports SF even though SF will probably be nerfed next update anyway when is the only time they would revert the skill making 600/Smite a popular gimmick again that they'd probably want nerfed, although its not nerfed now anyways so...
drkn
/notsigned
revert the nerf completely and nerf it other way around, so that it doesn't work for e/me and mo/me, but still works for me/ (change attribute, set breaking point, make it end when you use a self-targeting enchantment - whatever).
revert the nerf completely and nerf it other way around, so that it doesn't work for e/me and mo/me, but still works for me/ (change attribute, set breaking point, make it end when you use a self-targeting enchantment - whatever).
Wolf2581
I love it how some of the people in support of the skill change are of the "lrn2play" and "screw the farmers" variety. How about constructive feedback about the skill itself?
The change needs to be split because it is entirely a PvP problem.
The change needs to be split because it is entirely a PvP problem.
S_Serpent
/signed
like I said a million times: don't mess with other players fun unless you are willing to have your fun taken away and see if you will like it. Don't go tell others why don't you just go play the way I play, because my play is the only legit way! This is just short visioned POINT
like I said a million times: don't mess with other players fun unless you are willing to have your fun taken away and see if you will like it. Don't go tell others why don't you just go play the way I play, because my play is the only legit way! This is just short visioned POINT
Gun Pierson
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Age
Mantra of Resolve was used way before 600 and Raptor farming came into play.It was mainly used on the 55 for the UW and where interrupts were common.It now useless for this.
/sign for revert. |
There's no need to make a nerf like that to the UW duo smite run this late in the life of the game. If they wanted this setup to stop, they should have done it 3 years ago. The only thing they achieve now is aggrevating players who like the build, much to the amusement of others.
/Signed
Desert Rose
A split is not necessary, if you use MoR thoughtfully you are still able to farm with your E/Me or 600HP.
Even if you are somehow unable to use MoR thoughtfully you can bring a ranger with [[Quickening Zephyr] to reduce the recharge to 10 seconds, if that's not enough you can give this ranger [[Balthazar's Spirit] and switch it yourself with [[Dwarven Stability] to have a (nearly) permanent MoR back.
If you use it in ordinary builds the skill does exactly what it's supposed to do: It protects your most important skills against interrupts, it doesn't make you completely immune to them.
But i suppose a split will come in 2/4 months because now you have to actually pay attention when you 600HP and cannot longer watch TV/wathever at the same time, that's something that must not be.
Even if you are somehow unable to use MoR thoughtfully you can bring a ranger with [[Quickening Zephyr] to reduce the recharge to 10 seconds, if that's not enough you can give this ranger [[Balthazar's Spirit] and switch it yourself with [[Dwarven Stability] to have a (nearly) permanent MoR back.
If you use it in ordinary builds the skill does exactly what it's supposed to do: It protects your most important skills against interrupts, it doesn't make you completely immune to them.
But i suppose a split will come in 2/4 months because now you have to actually pay attention when you 600HP and cannot longer watch TV/wathever at the same time, that's something that must not be.
Opeth
no. deal with it like everyone else.
not signed
not signed
Shadowmoon
Quote:
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Originally Posted by HawkofStorms
@Shadowmoon, even if a.net says they nerfed this for PvP reasons, you have to think they knew this would nerf PvE builds as well, and did so intentionally.
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I just hope they have a few people with there finger on the pulse of pve in there new testcrew to actually comment on skill balances for the pve side.
Tenebrae
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Desert Rose
But i suppose a split will come in 2/4 months because now you have to actually pay attention when you 600HP and cannot longer watch TV/wathever at the same time, that's something that must not be.
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/notsigned
Shadowphoenix
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Opeth
no. deal with it like everyone else.
not signed |
^Agree with this /not signed, besides those who're QQ that Shadow Form wasn't nerf in this update(and i hope they will nerf soon enough) don't worry they're reserving the best for last, anyone remember Ursan?
Nerel
/not signed.
I think 5 seconds with a 20 second recharge was a bit rough, but not spilling any tears for the 600. Just hurry up and nerf Shadow Form... beat it down harshly. Then curb stomp it while it's down...
I think 5 seconds with a 20 second recharge was a bit rough, but not spilling any tears for the 600. Just hurry up and nerf Shadow Form... beat it down harshly. Then curb stomp it while it's down...
Demonlord Matt
/signed i hate in in pvp love it in pve skill split is needed
Kashrlyyk
if only we had a Community Relation Manager that could tell us if that was deliberate or an oversight, but, well, we only have Regina.
/signed
/signed
Perfected Shadow
/signed
+ Do the same thing for rip enchantment
and unnerf selfless spirit; bring on the flames.
+ Do the same thing for rip enchantment
and unnerf selfless spirit; bring on the flames.
ant12ant
/signed
I prefer PVE and when they nerf something globally (PVP&PVE) it sucks everywhere
I prefer PVE and when they nerf something globally (PVP&PVE) it sucks everywhere
Hayt
/signed
Really don't like this change....
Really don't like this change....
AlsPals
/Signed, HATE this change. If they absolutely have a problem for PVE though why not a concession.
10e
For 10 seconds,(everything it does now).
20 Recharge
It will be even more energy intensive in areas. This 5 second window of opportunity stuff does NOT count in PVE, where creatures will interrupt things as meaningless as auto attacks. 10 Seconds gives enough time to do things, while making that downtime more meaningful. I call dartboard. The nerfs I saw, justified by PvP meta, trickled down into PvE. Sleeping on the job?
10e
For 10 seconds,(everything it does now).
20 Recharge
It will be even more energy intensive in areas. This 5 second window of opportunity stuff does NOT count in PVE, where creatures will interrupt things as meaningless as auto attacks. 10 Seconds gives enough time to do things, while making that downtime more meaningful. I call dartboard. The nerfs I saw, justified by PvP meta, trickled down into PvE. Sleeping on the job?
nightcreeper
Unbelievable how much drama people do for a simple skill, you KNEW that if overabusing 600s something will come sooner or later, you TURNED a COOPERATIVE game into a FARMING, RUNNING and VANQUISHING game just with 600s, and yet still have the shame to want it back, GIVE ME A BREAK, so you HAD IT COMING stop crying like babies and accept reality.
/notsigned
P.S. Shadow Form is next in line so be prepared so don't do more drama when the time comes.
/notsigned
P.S. Shadow Form is next in line so be prepared so don't do more drama when the time comes.
AlsPals
Even though this helps tone down 600 as some people consistently say, thats not the only use for this skill. Some areas in HM are relentless with interrupts. And yes, I used things other than Discord/sabway, so there isnt always meatshields to roll my way through areas. MOR also helped with abstract farming for mes tomes/avoiding melee interrupts.
reaper with no name
/notsigned
Just because SF hasn't been nerfed yet doesn't mean it's not going to. In fact, anet has already said they're looking at it. They just happened to have a quick fix for 600 (whereas they see SF as a problem requiring a more complex solution).
Just because SF hasn't been nerfed yet doesn't mean it's not going to. In fact, anet has already said they're looking at it. They just happened to have a quick fix for 600 (whereas they see SF as a problem requiring a more complex solution).
Mr. Undisclosed
Not signed, people need to learn to adapt.
Age
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fate Crusher
Why would you want to revert it completely? You just stated completely PvE related issues about how you used the skill so why do you want to ruin PvP as well?
Are you evil? Or do you play bspike? |
I wished I played bspike.Change for /split.
Thenameless Wonder
/signed
Basically ANet wants to make MoR less effective, that's fine, but don't kill the 600/Smite!
Basically ANet wants to make MoR less effective, that's fine, but don't kill the 600/Smite!
BlackSephir
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Thenameless Wonder
but don't kill the 600/Smite!
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aga
/notsigned
Need to kill off dungeon running...
Need to kill off dungeon running...
Aldo wants more
/signed
But will this thread have any actual sway with linsey or the GW1 live team?
But will this thread have any actual sway with linsey or the GW1 live team?
upier
If A.Net decides that they want farming to be end-game content - then yes, bring it back. This also means keeping stuff like SF and potentially bringing back some old crap.
If A.Net decides that they don't want farming to play a major role in PvE, then rework titles, kill off other things and keep this one dead.
If A.Net decides that they don't want farming to play a major role in PvE, then rework titles, kill off other things and keep this one dead.
sosycpsycho
Quote:
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Originally Posted by upier
If A.Net decides that they want farming to be end-game content - then yes, bring it back. This also means keeping stuff like SF and potentially bringing back some old crap.
If A.Net decides that they don't want farming to play a major role in PvE, then rework titles, kill off other things and keep this one dead. |
Nuclfus
"Mantra of Resolve is the sort of skill that can cause problems in how the game plays. We've made dramatic numerical changes to this skill, essentially changing its function from giving long-term protection against interrupts to allowing a player to only protect key skills from interruption. By reducing its duration to 5, we hope to accomplish three things: First, having much shorter duration compared to recharge will require thoughtful usage of the skill. It can still be used to protect key spell-casts but will not provide blanket protection. Second, by requiring the caster to use the skill right before casting a spell, we give enemies a chance to see that Mantra of Resolve is in effect. We didn't feel that it was reasonable for someone's interruption attempt to be countered by an invisible stance that was activated a full minute or more earlier. Third, we wanted to make the energy cost of the skill matter. Even though the skill only takes 5 energy, needing to use it right before casting a spell should be a meaningful change."
Even for PvP, what I find to be completely ignored in this rationalization is that Mantra of Resolve has always been a "double-edged sword" at interrupt prevention. I think losing 10...5 energy per prevention was a fair price (in PvP play) for it being "an invisible stance", and the energy cost from that mattered plenty enough. Sure the enemy ranger might waste an interrupt or two, but I can see plenty of instances where maybe your losing 5, 10, or maybe 20 energy to compensate could in the end cost you the battle instead.
The new duration is 5 seconds, flat. There aren't very many spells in this game with a 6 second cast, but those are the ones for which anti-interrupts SHOULD be a particularly worthwhile investment. But if your prevention still leaves you wide open for a whole second on the skills that need it the most (any half-decent PvPer will count the seconds and watch for that window), then does it even have a point?
Personally I'd go for either a) removing the energy loss to restore some sense of par with its competitors, or b) making its duration close to Pious/Mantra of Concentration. Probably just pipe dreams given the state of this game.
Even for PvP, what I find to be completely ignored in this rationalization is that Mantra of Resolve has always been a "double-edged sword" at interrupt prevention. I think losing 10...5 energy per prevention was a fair price (in PvP play) for it being "an invisible stance", and the energy cost from that mattered plenty enough. Sure the enemy ranger might waste an interrupt or two, but I can see plenty of instances where maybe your losing 5, 10, or maybe 20 energy to compensate could in the end cost you the battle instead.
The new duration is 5 seconds, flat. There aren't very many spells in this game with a 6 second cast, but those are the ones for which anti-interrupts SHOULD be a particularly worthwhile investment. But if your prevention still leaves you wide open for a whole second on the skills that need it the most (any half-decent PvPer will count the seconds and watch for that window), then does it even have a point?
Personally I'd go for either a) removing the energy loss to restore some sense of par with its competitors, or b) making its duration close to Pious/Mantra of Concentration. Probably just pipe dreams given the state of this game.
IntrospectivePirate
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Nuclfus
"Mantra of Resolve is the sort of skill that can cause problems in how the game plays. We've made dramatic numerical changes to this skill, essentially changing its function from giving long-term protection against interrupts to allowing a player to only protect key skills from interruption. By reducing its duration to 5, we hope to accomplish three things: First, having much shorter duration compared to recharge will require thoughtful usage of the skill. It can still be used to protect key spell-casts but will not provide blanket protection. Second, by requiring the caster to use the skill right before casting a spell, we give enemies a chance to see that Mantra of Resolve is in effect. We didn't feel that it was reasonable for someone's interruption attempt to be countered by an invisible stance that was activated a full minute or more earlier. Third, we wanted to make the energy cost of the skill matter. Even though the skill only takes 5 energy, needing to use it right before casting a spell should be a meaningful change."
Even for PvP, what I find to be completely ignored in this rationalization is that Mantra of Resolve has always been a "double-edged sword" at interrupt prevention. I think losing 10...5 energy per prevention was a fair price (in PvP play) for it being "an invisible stance", and the energy cost from that mattered plenty enough. Sure the enemy ranger might waste an interrupt or two, but I can see plenty of instances where maybe your losing 5, 10, or maybe 20 energy to compensate could in the end cost you the battle instead. The new duration is 5 seconds, flat. There aren't very many spells in this game with a 6 second cast, but those are the ones for which anti-interrupts SHOULD be a particularly worthwhile investment. But if your prevention still leaves you wide open for a whole second on the skills that need it the most (any half-decent PvPer will count the seconds and watch for that window), then does it even have a point? Personally I'd go for either a) removing the energy loss to restore some sense of par with its competitors, or b) making its duration close to Pious/Mantra of Concentration. Probably just pipe dreams given the state of this game. |
I think we are done here.
Zera Fang
Quote:
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Originally Posted by nightcreeper
you TURNED a COOPERATIVE game into a FARMING, RUNNING and VANQUISHING game just with 600s
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If they didn't want us to farm they never would have put in such rare skins or put in titles that require so much time to grind down that you have to either give up your life for a few weeks or work on it every time you get on to have a chance at finishing it. And don't you dare start preaching about cooperative play, this game is dying and it's next to impossible to find a full team of 8 people to play a mission when it isn't the Z mish of the day or vanquish an area when you aren't in a guild/alliance that focuses on that.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by upier
If A.Net decides that they want farming to be end-game content - then yes, bring it back. This also means keeping stuff like SF and potentially bringing back some old crap.
If A.Net decides that they don't want farming to play a major role in PvE, then rework titles, kill off other things and keep this one dead. |
Shasgaliel
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zera Fang
No, we didn't. Anet did. They introduced all these titles to max, all these items to get and look slick with, they are the ones that pushed everyone to farm if they wanted things. 600 monks just grew out of that desire.
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It is all your decision, your choice. People farm and max titles since they want to. It is not needed and not necessary. Anyway it is not the place for title discussion.
I am definitively against the reversing it back. I would not mind it being changed in a way it is not completely useless but useless for farming reasons only. Not sure if such a change would be possible without entirely reworking this skill.
Master Sword Keeper
/signed
For the Pve/pvp split.
/notsigned @ hawk of storm's pesimistic attitude. Not everyone likes to SF.
So wait lets recap here....
[rant button] /startrant
We dont want to clear dungeons with 3 people, who are actually nice enough to take 5 other random people for the ride, but! We'll clear UW in about 20mins... Hmmm
1. Elite areas are elite areas because it takes strategy and common sense, not just mindless button bashing 1,2,3. Over and over and over and over.
At least with 600/smite, the smiter has to think of placement, skill rotation and above all where his team-mates are standing in accordance to the aggro.
it requires more brains than any other build in the game. Also, as for the pirate weekend, i managed to rack up a nice number of bottles from another farm using a DERVISH.
Goes to show, the more "versitile" players will know to create builds rather than rely on one solo build alone.
/signed for nerfing SF. we dont need it, we never did.
/rantover
For the Pve/pvp split.
/notsigned @ hawk of storm's pesimistic attitude. Not everyone likes to SF.
So wait lets recap here....
[rant button] /startrant
We dont want to clear dungeons with 3 people, who are actually nice enough to take 5 other random people for the ride, but! We'll clear UW in about 20mins... Hmmm
1. Elite areas are elite areas because it takes strategy and common sense, not just mindless button bashing 1,2,3. Over and over and over and over.
At least with 600/smite, the smiter has to think of placement, skill rotation and above all where his team-mates are standing in accordance to the aggro.
it requires more brains than any other build in the game. Also, as for the pirate weekend, i managed to rack up a nice number of bottles from another farm using a DERVISH.
Goes to show, the more "versitile" players will know to create builds rather than rely on one solo build alone.
/signed for nerfing SF. we dont need it, we never did.
/rantover
Desert Rose
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Nuclfus
Even for PvP, what I find to be completely ignored in this rationalization is that Mantra of Resolve has always been a "double-edged sword" at interrupt prevention. I think losing 10...5 energy per prevention was a fair price (in PvP play) for it being "an invisible stance", and the energy cost from that mattered plenty enough.
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Darcy
While I think 5 sec is too short a time, I don't see what all the weeping is about. I have been smiting for two different 600s since the change and they are not having big problems. But I am not happy with the effect on my ele's builds.
dusty4444
600/smite can still be used, just that now you actually have to know what skills you are bashing. Mantra just made it dumb easy for everyone, and waaaaay too many dungeons had runs. Stop whining and start playing.
/notsigned
/notsigned