PvE skill abuse = excessive widespread use???

Spirits are not overpowered. Even so, it's so slight that there are TONS other things that need attention before it's ever addressed. I mean, taking into account that it takes some time to throw all the spirits up there, for DPS that, correct me if I'm wrong, is like... 120ish? in that range?

Usually spirit Spammers are very vulnerable to AoE. VERY. it's a bit difficult to get all your spirits out of aoe before at least some of them die. They are pretty vulnerable to attack, moreso it seems then minions are. While this is good in a sense, if all your spirits die, you're pretty much skrewed for the duration of some of these skills' long recharge times.

Point being, Spirit spammers are not OP. OP are things like Shadow Form. Spirit spammers will be OP when they become the 'norm'. Right now they are just a pretty good alternative.

Yes, a character that can summon 4 meat shields which are half as tough as an avarage caster and deals up to 100 DPS at range, can support your phyicals with splinter weapon, has one of the most powerful e-managment skills in the game and still has a free secondary, 3 free skill slots and 103 free attribute points is absolutly balanced and not even slightly overpowered... NOT.
If you devote your entire bar to spirit spam you can even go up to 150 DPS and 6 meat shields that are tougher than an avarage caster.

Arguing spirits and in particular SoS aren't overpowered is ridiculous, but after all it's PvE, who cares about balance?

The devs are impossible to predict.

I guess I'm the only rit that never uses SoS in their bar... wow. It's a nice skill, but spirit spamming still isn't all that good compared to other things you can do with a rit. I still prefer to run a party support build with AP and YMLaD! and FH! and GDW with spirit burn and splinter. but I guess I'm just strange and set in my ways as I've been a huge fan of Rits since before SoS and spirits got buffed.

If you devote an entire bar to making creatures, they should stand up to monsters.

See: Minion masters and the recent pet buffs for more examples

Because where the Monk is still widely in demand without Selfless Spirit, upgraded spirits are the only thing getting Ritualists into groups; that and (very rarely) restoration.

A better comparison would be SoS vs the entire Healing Prayers and Protection Prayers line.

saw this coming from a mile away.

I could kinda see them nerf SoS if that wasn't like the only good offensive elite they had at their disposal.

Sorry but I think you need to leave this thread until you know what you're talking about.

CoP got Mesmers into groups. Then CoP ended up being abused even by Mesmer secondaries, as a farming/speed clear tool in Cryway... Et voilà, the nerf came.

Anyway, I don't really see this happening to SoS rits, as the nature of Binding Rituals itself doesn't allow that sort of mass abuse. SoS might be toned down a little in the future, but, I believe, never to a level it becomes THAT much less usable.

Like, say, VoR to Mesmers?

I agree with him/her. Spirits WERE powerful even before the update. Armor ignoring damage, very few counters, DPS could be pretty high in the right circumstances. The downside - inherent weakness of the spirits apart - was the high energy cost and the slow casting time that induced people to precast rituals and then to move them around with Summon Spirits. Not much has really changed with this, except you can spare points in Spawning Power since spirits are much more durable on their own now.

I always liked to run a spam build on my rit prior to the SoS changes. I stopped playing for a while and when I started up PvE again to go do Zaishen quests I naturally went back to my rit because it's basically an easy-button PvE class.

I read about SoS in the rit forums and basically dropped SoS in place of Wanderlust. I have to say it's uber. I cleared out the last Zaishen bounty on Mallyx the Unyielding with H/H in way under the 20 minute allotment in hard mode.

It's not even funny how fast things drop when you hit them with Painful Bond + 6 spirits.

It's PvE so I don't even care if it's nerfed or not. It's not a viable farming build, but it does make rolling through areas pretty easy. It's remeniscent of the good old days when minions weren't limited to 10. Ahh the times I had in Sorrow's Furnace with 32+ minions...

*waits anxiously for Mending to be nerfed for non-monks*

But no, skills should be nerfed when it is glaringly more powerful than any alternatives.

PvE "balance" shouldn't be about "omg the monsters don't stand a chance", because monsters never stand a chance. PvE "balance" should be based around "why the hell would I use skill X when I can use skill Y?"

Sos can't be overused in a party because only 3 of these spirits can be into play at the same time, unless I am wrong. 1 Sos per party isn't abusive at all. 7 SF in a party is abusive.

Hell that's not even the reason why SF should be nerfed. It should be nerfed because standing in a mob of 20++ HM monsters indefinitely without taking a single damage isn't normal and GW for sure wasn't intended to be played that way.

Funny how tonight when I looked in the party window, all I saw was "Party looking for MM, Nuker, and Monks"... dunno where the op saw a window full of "Party looking for SoS", but it for sure wasn't todays Z-Mission.

If you don't think those things made spirits weak you're wrong. Those things you listed pretty much killed spirit usage before the update. Spirits are actually viable now unlike before when they were really only useful when you wanted to screw around and for a certain few other things. Powerful? lol.

Considering spirits die rather quickly when attacked (and they ARE targeted by enemy AI often), I don't think it's that overpowered. Secondary Rt SoS Spirit Spammers work decently in NM, but with no Spawning, the spirits drop like flies in HM.

I have noticed that SoS Spirit Spam isn't 'required' for a rit to play in a group as Ursan and HB were back in the day. People are still open to other Rit builds.

You sure about that? I had a lot of spirits up yesterday, and every time I attacked a different target, the spirits followed suit. They did this even if the previous target was still alive, and there was very little delay.

you just got lucky... I've been playing my Rit since the factions preview event and I've never been able to actually "control" the targeting of a summoned spirit. from time to time using summon spirits can help push the target better, but it still isn't a consistent thing. seems to me you just got lucky. the targeting of spirits is one of the main reason I feel they're not very good for much beyond fodder for Rit e-management skills and to reduce life sac or soloing.

I'll always hold that the strength of a rit is weapon spells and item spells. there are a handfull of defensive spirits that are great, but most offensive ones are just not that reliable.

EDIT: offensive spirits are good, they can deal serious damage and are a GREAT wall for the backline. I just don't feel they're as good as other things that Rits can do.

Yep , offensive spirits control is none i think , they aggro like minions and there you go , wont stop till target is dead or other spirit attacks anything else ...... is kinda weird but i dont think they follow their masters target calling.

Define "powerful" then. If "powerful" means "autowin", sure, Spirit Spam has never been anything like that.

I've been playing my Rit for ages and played spirits even before the "spirit spammer" label came out. Little has changed for me now, my Rit is still the one the gets through things with more ease.

People who played spirit spam (like me) dealt with those weaknesses. Slow casting and fragility were both addressed with a wise use of Summon Spirits. Sure, they were annoying issues that pushed a lot of players away. Ok, you had to rely on a PvE-only skill, but those downsides were pretty much balanced by their firepower. Stackable, armor ignoring damage with very few counters. Protect them, move them away from AoE, and you were done. Not easy, and not enjoyable for most of the players out there, I admit it, but that doesn't make a thing "not powerful" to me.

Now little has been made to make spirit spam more "powerful", it's just "easier" since you don't even need to really pay attention at your spirits anymore. I don't even spend that many points in Spawning Power now, the level increase is enough.

I dunno. I find that my SoS spirits (and Bloodsong, the only other offensive spirit I use regularly) more often than not attack what I'm attacking (which is not always the closest since I tend to go for Rits, Monks and Eleis, in that order, first) if I start wanding (*not* spellcasting at) my target before they've chosen their own, which they usually seem to take a second or two to do after summoning or after their current target has died.

Probably just be a matter of subjective perception, of course, but that's how it seems to me...

What a bunch of winners geeze,

One post whats overpowered, 1 post whats underpowered ect

Get a grip guys if you dont like it the way it it is dont put it on your skillbar...

Oh no cant do that cause I use it in pve on other chars.
You know this was the sort of thing that started yrs ago guys wanting what ...they...want to play with.


So either accept what they do even if you moan or just simplay dont play the game . the guys her only represent a small minority.

Adapt is the key simply put..its seeems guys having nothing to do on gw and just want to gripe there woes in print


If its not fun for you then plenty of other games to take up your time

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