How will certain runs work without Shadow Form

Shadow form or shadow farm as i call it it the 1 skill that dominates all making everything so easy but how will runs work without it below i will talk about some hard runs that use sf to do.

Gates Of Madness HM - Alot of people hate this mission since wipeing at shiro is so frustrating there is some permas who run this for 15k each but if they go who else is they as not many people can do this with h/h setup.

Slavers Exile (Dunkan NM and HM) - In NM And HM Dunkan the black is a horrible foe with near 50,000 health and this is a run that perma is popular for as they can have the job done in under 10 mins but for a balenced team what could be whiped by 1 spirit rift it could take over 1 hour to atleast beat him

Catacombes of Kathandrax - i know this is a 600/smite run but the 2nd floor requires a perma so personally i dunno if the 600/smite could do the 2nd floor

tell me what you think guyes and say any other runs that you think that might be a stuggle without the almighty sf

The short answer: people will need to learn to play *gasp*

I've done all of those 3 examples all with henchmen, so IT IS possible. So what happens there? People fail because they're doing something wrong and instead of learning, adapting and succeding, we see 'LF RUNNER HM' everywhere. It's ridiculous/sad how most people will rather pay up someone to play the game for them because they can't be bothered to think for themselves and tackle on something harder than what they're confortable. Pong, might be an awesome game for those people. This type of running is something I really hope not to see in GW2, if people can't play the game, they shouldn't still be able to complete it by someone else.

I really can't wait for the SF nerf and watch all the crying and bitching on guru and in game. Oh will I spend the next days in ToA laughing.

edit: well I might be thinking whisful here, this is what I'd like to see happening. The reality will probably be - 600/smites will do all the dungeon running you'll ever need, and the next overpowered build will take over the rest of the game, that's how it always goes down. And that's if SF is nerfed properly, we all know how much it can and went wrong already.

Gates Of Madness HM - possible without perma; i mean a rush, not actuall beat it in a "normal" way.

Slavers Exile (Dunkan NM and HM) - displace spirits, tank dies near duncan, necro kills him with signet of sorrow.

Catacombes of Kathandrax - are you sure it "requires" a perma or it is just the easiest method?

UWSC - goes back to earth eles.

DoA - goes back to obsi tanks.

All 3 things can be done more or less easily with H/H.

Gate of Madness. This one is the easiest. In fact sometimes i have failed to get the extra because my H/H killed shiro before we could activate all the shrines.

Duncan. Have done it only a few times (because of having to kill all the other bosses first). The other elite areas are more difficult than this one.

Kathandrax. Easy too. If you want to go 600/smite the key skill is Pain Inverter for the wurms that don't atack and for that boss on level 3. A Rit 600 doesn't need pain inverter as vengeful weapon steals their life, but of course Pain Inverter still makes it faster.

Why the hell are you even playing those missions and dungeons if it's all so negative to you?

Gates of Madness HM: last done with an Imbagon in the group. Enemy damage was little more than a tingling sensation. Bonus not a problem. First we killed the Lich, then activated the five altars and removed Shiro.

Salver's Exile HM: Signet of Sorrow is not too bad like Desert Rose said.

Kathandrax: Any group of eight humans will have few problems, provided they got a decent build and know their priorities killing enemies. The two endbosses are a bit annoying, but nothing one can't handle.

Most notably, the absence of Shadow Form will no longer turn DoA and FoW into the Benny Hill Show. UW might also be a good area, instead of a 15 minute chest run. That is not only ruining the fun for most players, it also ruined the scarcity of UW chest loot in no time.

I never used Shadow Form that much and have done the things listed fine w/o it.

Gates of Madness- i did H/H, its do-able you just need specific skills to kill Shiro like insidious, empathy, Spoil Victor.

Duncan- i do Slavers on a weekly basis and the only time we needed perma was to get to the dungeon and move spirits. I did spirits on my mes so perma is not needed on that part and its not impossible. And i never had the 1hr problem to kill him either, it usually takes 10mins or less.

Btw, whats with all this "ZOMG!!! if Shadow Form is going bye bye what we gonna do???" Learn to play like everyone else did and quit making posts about this pointless QQ stuff. I dont do UWSC or any other speed clear and i make enough gold playing through the game. I even was able to get obsidian for my mesmer and was happy i earned it through playing and not doing hours of speed clears.
Me personally, i could care less if they nerf SF or not and for all of you that dread that day when they do nerf, il be here waiting to count how much QQ threads get posted while you bite your nails wondering how your gonna go through the game without Shadow Form.

the question is still, how will they nerf it. it's possible that new builds will spread after a month since the upcoming nerf as it won't shatter some of the ways.
the easiest and most disrupting would be to change shadow form into stance skill, instead of enchantment - that would keep the shadow form as a skill in game, wouldn't require any other skill change and kill the permasins - perfect solution.

i dont have a problem i was talking about people in general as alot of people cannot find perfect builds to work for them.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Impossible_Odds <-this

It's impossibly bugged.

They'll run just like they did before Shadow Form. I can't remember a run I've paid for that had to use Shadow Form.

You do? Gee, I wish you'd told me sooner. Silly me, I went and killed him HM using an H&H team that didn't have ANY of these essential skills, and he went down quite easily.

None of the things you mention really needs Shadow Form. In fact, the more you think about it, the more you realize there are very few farms/runs currently that really need Shadow Form to be effective... Perma is just so massively over-powered that people have lazily used it to do everything. This is also why its going to be nerfed by the way. The only farm/run I can think of that could NOT be done without Shadow Form is the HM Ravenheart Gloom run that I've made so much money from. Oh well, no more free Torment gems.

He didnt say ESSENTIAL he said SPECIFIC and he also said "like" meaning similar to these listed. if your gonna sling crap at least be accurate.




Cronk

Gates of Madness is easy anyways; you can make a nice bit of cash taking a couple people through it, actually, if you get the builds figured out.

But let's face it: who gives a flying shit if runs don't work anymore? Play the game itself some time.

that basically says it all
uw and things like that will just use obsi eles like it used to

Yup. I think the lesson they should learn from this for Guild Wars 2 is that hyper-specialized builds and skills that are tailored to trivialize some specific tasks and useless anywhere else are a bad thing for the game.

Given the state of the game - I think quitting (or not doing the optional content in question) will be a more appealing option.

I really laugh at all the people who rage and QQ at people getting runs.

Seriously, by getting runs they're not hurting you (In fact, if you started running people, it'd BENEFIT you), and most people don't want runs because they can't do something, but because after you do something for the 10th time it gets real boring, and not worth doing the normal way. Trust me, after getting my sin, war, necro, mesmer, AND ele to DoA AND Urgoz/Deep, I really don't feel like doing any more Cantha/Elona missions for my other characters.

Now, back on topic: Almost all runs can be done without a permasin. Second level of Kathandrax can be done with a VoS runner that uses stoneflesh aura, and UW/DoA/Urgoz/Deep can be done with an obsidian flesh tank, which is a lot easier now because of rock candies (If you use all 3 of them, and a pie, and a cupcake, you'll move at normal speed and pretty much insta-cast everything, making interrupts moot) - Everything that a perma can do, an obsidian flesh tank can do. The only difference is the 50% DMS and conditions and interrupts. Which are fixed by personal cons.

runs wont work :P