The Assassin's Demise: A Lament
Bobby2
Sephir, don't bother. Tenebrae is very versed in the skill of ignoring rational arguments. Just leave in the knowledge that you are right.
_Nihilist_
Comparing Shadow Form to any other single skill is folly in and of itself if you are trying to prove that it is not broken.
You can't compare Shadow Form to Obsidian Flesh in any equal light because they aren't equal.
1) SF prevents targeted spells and causes all attacks to miss, OF only prevents targeted spells
2) SF being permanently maintained has no drawbacks whatsoever, as the "you lose all but 5...50 health" clause won't kick in, maintaining OF means that you move 75% slower, you can't circumvent/ignore the downside of the skill
You can't compare Shadow Form to Obsidian Flesh in any equal light because they aren't equal.
1) SF prevents targeted spells and causes all attacks to miss, OF only prevents targeted spells
2) SF being permanently maintained has no drawbacks whatsoever, as the "you lose all but 5...50 health" clause won't kick in, maintaining OF means that you move 75% slower, you can't circumvent/ignore the downside of the skill
Bobby2
You may deem it broken but evidently it is allowed to exist. Why get so worked up? It's only PvE. 
BlackSephir
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Originally Posted by _Nihilist_
I specifically said
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I'm glad to see someone doesn't view the Assassin as purely a vehicle for running permaform. But again, you--and as far as I can tell, everyone else who's been criticizing me--haven't really read the actual content of my original post, and my subsequent rebuttals. I'm NOT complaining about the mere fact of SF's existence. What I'm COMPLAINING about is the fact that it's turned an entire class into a niche build, and the mentality that that's created--the instant tendency to dismiss any Assassin that doesn't run permaform as somehow lacking. And like I've said from the beginning, I fully acknowledge the limitations of my knowledge...which makes it hard for me to see how this is flame-bait. If others choose to only read a few words from my posts and assume I'm just QQ'ing about SF itself, that's their problem.|
SF is broken, but your "IT SHOULDNT BE MAINTANABLE BECAUSE THIS WAY YOU CAN MAINTAIN IT" is idiotic, stupid and moronic.
but I guess expecting something from guru users was my mistake.
Lieutenant Banana
...Really? What part of "I don't want this to devolve into a flame war" DON'T people get?
Also, my assassin is my main. He is in no way shape or form my "perma," he's my assassin. Yes most of the things I tend to do nowadays usually involve the use of SF, but be honest with yourself, 58 day old man. What else is there to do? Just because the skill is good is no reason to hate on it. Just because it works well enough to make it "dominate" a class, as you say, is no reason to bash on it. It should just inspire you to make one yourself, stop crying about everyone else doing it, and stop making ridiculous flame-bait threads.
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I suppose we should just be glad that our heros cant say: NO! IM NOT PARTYING WITH YOU, YOUR NOT SF! THANK YOU. You've just backed up what I've been trying (and apparently failing) to get across all along--the hypothetical existence of other viable sin builds doesn't address my complaint at all, since almost none of those builds are utilized in regular gameplay anymore, particularly in high-end areas but also in many low-end ones...note the impromptu survey of sins I took in Ran Musu a week or so ago. As I've said all along, if anyone can show me concrete evidence that the Assassin is thriving in PvE as a diverse melee class is welcome to, and I'll readily acknowledge that I'm wrong at that point. But since out of the myriad of people who have been bashing me thus far, only ONE has actually stated that he runs an Assassin with more than one build, my thesis stands.
ogre_jd
Well, I run a Critical Barrage build, 3 or 4 different Dagger builds (trying to wean myself off of Death Blossom; the main problem in that seems to be the excessive recharge times of many Dagger attacks 
and, yes, have even been messing with Shadow Form builds in the last two weeks or so attempting to find one that works for me (that 3 second window between SF's recharge and it's duration is easy to miss when you're slow-reflexed and have a crappy connection) to perhaps attempt to farm a little extra cash now that I've seen just how expensive Vabbian armor can be. :P
Still, I'm sure there's plenty of other actual Assassin players out there (including a few in this thread) - it's just that we're mostly quiet types who have actually been playing our Assassins because we like them rather than having jumped on the bandwagon once they became the farming profession of choice.
and, yes, have even been messing with Shadow Form builds in the last two weeks or so attempting to find one that works for me (that 3 second window between SF's recharge and it's duration is easy to miss when you're slow-reflexed and have a crappy connection) to perhaps attempt to farm a little extra cash now that I've seen just how expensive Vabbian armor can be. :PStill, I'm sure there's plenty of other actual Assassin players out there (including a few in this thread) - it's just that we're mostly quiet types who have actually been playing our Assassins because we like them rather than having jumped on the bandwagon once they became the farming profession of choice.
Bobby2
Blossom spammers will always have a use. At least the people I play with seem to think so. Lucky me, I guess.
Lieutenant Banana
...and finally, I get what I was hoping for: the acknowledgment of the existence of melee sins by virtue of real fact rather than hypotheticals. I'm all too happy at this point to admit that in light of the last two posts, I may have been wrong about the complete downfall of the Assassin as a melee class...although I kinda wish there were more than two replies 
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Blossom spammers will always have a use. At least the people I play with seem to think so. Lucky me, I guess.
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Check the threads on here mate.|
Well, I run a Critical Barrage build, 3 or 4 different Dagger builds (trying to wean myself off of Death Blossom; the main problem in that seems to be the excessive recharge times of many Dagger attacks and, yes, have even been messing with Shadow Form builds in the last two weeks or so attempting to find one that works for me (that 3 second window between SF's recharge and it's duration is easy to miss when you're slow-reflexed and have a crappy connection) to perhaps attempt to farm a little extra cash now that I've seen just how expensive Vabbian armor can be. :P Still, I'm sure there's plenty of other actual Assassin players out there (including a few in this thread) - it's just that we're mostly quiet types who have actually been playing our Assassins because we like them rather than having jumped on the bandwagon once they became the farming profession of choice. Interesting. I've always wanted to try Crit Barrage, but never seemed to get around to it--maybe I'll try that next. I, too, am trying to find a replacement for DB, but it's difficult--my favorite thus far is an AP build that uses powerful but long-recharge chains (I'm currently experimenting with Iron Palm-Falling Spider-AP-Twisting Fangs-SoTS if necessary. Energy-intensive, but works fairly well against single targets). And as you say, I'm sure that there are indeed others who continue to play the Assassin as a melee DPS class as opposed to or in addition to an invincible super-farmer...and having now actually heard from a couple of them, I'm perfectly willing to concede that point.
Bobby2
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Originally Posted by Lieutenant Banana
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Quote: Originally Posted by Lieutenant Banana
