I believe that banning heroes from all PvP does NOT solve the real problem here, and takes away some positive aspects of the game.
The main problem with heroes in PvP is that AI interrupt Mesmers are a lot better than human interrupt Mesmers. The symptoms are:
1) Human Mesmers become relatively worthless.
2) Some games are dominated by Mesmer heroes easily interrupting spells.
The ill-chosen "solution" of banning heroes from PvP handles the symptoms somewhat, but does nothing about the problem. For example, interrupt Mesmers will still be underplayed in PvE. Why bother waiting for a human Mesmer to do a mission when a hero can beat him easily?
Banning heroes from PvP also creates several new problems. For example:
-It takes most of the fun out of building good heroes. PvP is in many ways the "end-game" for GW. Gearing up and tuning your heroes is fun because they can be of help in the end-game - if you ban them from the end-game, this will just become a waste of time and items.
-Waiting times for PvP will rise dramatically. GW's player base is nowhere near as large as, for example, WoW's. Finding enough players for AB is pretty much only a real possibility during AB weekend. Why? People can't fill up the empty spots in their team with heroes. Banning heroes from all PvP types simply causes this problem to spread like the plague over all PvP.
--BONUS: Arenanet will "fix" this problem by coming up with special henchies. Excellent, now we will only be able to play popular run-of-the-mill team builds rather than come up with ideas of our own. I'm thrilled.
-The game will suck for new players, killing most of the player base growth. Most guilds will only pick the established players for their PvP matches. How are new players ever to get into PvP if they a) never get picked for a team, and b) can't build a team of their own with heroes?
Arenanet could prevent all these problems AND handle the original problem better by just making heroes a little worse at interrupt spells - e.g. make Mesmer heroes only "see" spells cast by their current target, and the last target called by their controller.
Suggestion: Nerf hero AI rather than ban heroes from PvP
Nechrond
Dobermann
OMG
/neversigned
8 Players vs 6 Players and 2 heroes?
Do I need too say anymore
A-Net sold us (pvp'ers) out too pve'ers. Cos pve noobs will buy the skill and equipment unlock packs.
Heroes have raped heroes ascent too worthlessness.
Rank isn't worth jack all now.
And now i shall rip your arguments too peices:
Banning heroes from PvP also creates several new problems. For example:
-It takes most of the fun out of building good heroes. PvP is in many ways the "end-game" for GW. Gearing up and tuning your heroes is fun because they can be of help in the end-game - if you ban them from the end-game, this will just become a waste of time and items. -
WRONG: Try doing all of underworld or DoA with only heroes. PvP and PvE are seperate, and
should remain so.
-Waiting times for PvP will rise dramatically. GW's player base is nowhere near as large as, for example, WoW's. Finding enough players for AB is pretty much only a real possibility during AB weekend. Why? People can't fill up the empty spots in their team with heroes. Banning heroes from all PvP types simply causes this problem to spread like the plague over all PvP.
--BONUS: Arenanet will "fix" this problem by coming up with special henchies. Excellent, now we will only be able to play popular run-of-the-mill team builds rather than come up with ideas of our own. I'm thrilled.[b]
You just owned yourself here, how will it increase waiting times if they add henchies. WRONG.
[b]-The game will suck for new players, killing most of the player base growth. Most guilds will only pick the established players for their PvP matches. How are new players ever to get into PvP if they a) never get picked for a team, and b) can't build a team of their own with heroes?[b]
Get better and play real builds and earn your skill.
This all from a dedicated player, who has played balanced since a N/E Tainted with Malestrom, combined with Evisc Axe and Sb/Infuse was called balance.
One more thing, nerfing heroes would kill pve, would dessicate sabway, and wld stop mesmer heroes from giving you a chance against certain HM bosses.
/neversigned
8 Players vs 6 Players and 2 heroes?
Do I need too say anymore
A-Net sold us (pvp'ers) out too pve'ers. Cos pve noobs will buy the skill and equipment unlock packs.
Heroes have raped heroes ascent too worthlessness.
Rank isn't worth jack all now.
And now i shall rip your arguments too peices:
Banning heroes from PvP also creates several new problems. For example:
-It takes most of the fun out of building good heroes. PvP is in many ways the "end-game" for GW. Gearing up and tuning your heroes is fun because they can be of help in the end-game - if you ban them from the end-game, this will just become a waste of time and items. -
WRONG: Try doing all of underworld or DoA with only heroes. PvP and PvE are seperate, and
should remain so.
-Waiting times for PvP will rise dramatically. GW's player base is nowhere near as large as, for example, WoW's. Finding enough players for AB is pretty much only a real possibility during AB weekend. Why? People can't fill up the empty spots in their team with heroes. Banning heroes from all PvP types simply causes this problem to spread like the plague over all PvP.
--BONUS: Arenanet will "fix" this problem by coming up with special henchies. Excellent, now we will only be able to play popular run-of-the-mill team builds rather than come up with ideas of our own. I'm thrilled.[b]
You just owned yourself here, how will it increase waiting times if they add henchies. WRONG.
[b]-The game will suck for new players, killing most of the player base growth. Most guilds will only pick the established players for their PvP matches. How are new players ever to get into PvP if they a) never get picked for a team, and b) can't build a team of their own with heroes?[b]
Get better and play real builds and earn your skill.
This all from a dedicated player, who has played balanced since a N/E Tainted with Malestrom, combined with Evisc Axe and Sb/Infuse was called balance.
One more thing, nerfing heroes would kill pve, would dessicate sabway, and wld stop mesmer heroes from giving you a chance against certain HM bosses.
Gift3d
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Nechrond
I believe that banning heroes from all PvP does NOT solve the real problem here, and takes away some positive aspects of the game.
The main problem with heroes in PvP is that AI interrupt Mesmers are a lot better than human interrupt Mesmers. The symptoms are: 1) Human Mesmers become relatively worthless. |
BlackSephir
Quote:
| 1) Human Mesmers become relatively worthless. |
Dobermann
as for the "worthless human mesmers"
Please look at all the me/mo RoJ+Cry of Pain builds.
Please look at all the me/mo RoJ+Cry of Pain builds.
Nechrond
Posts #4 and #5 kill the official motivation for banning heroes from PvP and thus support my point. Thanks guys!
EDIT: I also have some doubts that you really run into that many Cry of Pain builds in PvP, what with it being a theoretical impossibility and all that.
EDIT: I also have some doubts that you really run into that many Cry of Pain builds in PvP, what with it being a theoretical impossibility and all that.
BlackSephir
No prob, gimme a call when AN finally listens to your ideas.
Nechrond
If you have any better ideas, I'd be happy to listen to them. But banning heroes from all of PvP because one specific type of hero causes trouble is just wrong, and a waste of a really nice feature. It's like banning Necromancers from PvP because bloodspike causes problems.
I'd also be fine with, for example, just banning certain skills on heroes in PvP.
I'd also be fine with, for example, just banning certain skills on heroes in PvP.
MagmaRed
Heroes are better than humans at reaction. Humans are better than heroes at decision. I'd rather have someone use an interrupt on a skill like Aegis, Weapon of Warding, Linguring Curse than I would have them use it on Patient Spirit (which is ready again before the interrupt is), Mend Body and Soul, or Parasitic Bond. Some skills are not worth interrupting, and heroes can't make those decisions.
AB has never allowed heroes, so nothing is changing there. I don't see how your idea effects AB or heroes either one in regard to this, unless you want to suggest Anet allow heroes for AB.
And for those poor PvE players who rely on heroes.... you idea is HORRID. Worst idea there is for a PvE player. If anything, the hero AI needs to be buffed as there are many things they fail at still that they shouldn't.
But the replacement of heroes with hench is bad for 2 reasons (in my opinion). First is they are using meta builds which won't work for many teams and will be nerfed with skill changes. Second is it is PvP.... which for those who forget is Player versus Player. If you want to play against NPCs, go do PvE.
AB has never allowed heroes, so nothing is changing there. I don't see how your idea effects AB or heroes either one in regard to this, unless you want to suggest Anet allow heroes for AB.
And for those poor PvE players who rely on heroes.... you idea is HORRID. Worst idea there is for a PvE player. If anything, the hero AI needs to be buffed as there are many things they fail at still that they shouldn't.
But the replacement of heroes with hench is bad for 2 reasons (in my opinion). First is they are using meta builds which won't work for many teams and will be nerfed with skill changes. Second is it is PvP.... which for those who forget is Player versus Player. If you want to play against NPCs, go do PvE.
Nechrond
AB has never allowed heroes, so nothing is changing there. I don't see how your idea effects AB or heroes either one in regard to this, unless you want to suggest Anet allow heroes for AB.
That's why I chose it as an example. AB = no heroes, AB also = an eternity of waiting. I fear that other PvP will end up like that too. Remember that if a 6-man team can't start because they can't add 2 heroes, that is 6 players taken out of the equation right there. The formats concerned aren't exactly known for their PUGs, more for people from the same guild who work together well.
And for those poor PvE players who rely on heroes.... you idea is HORRID. Worst idea there is for a PvE player. If anything, the hero AI needs to be buffed as there are many things they fail at still that they shouldn't.
Aye, the AI needs a major buff in some places. I merely suggested a slight and very selective nerf. Slightly nerfing Mesmer heroes would also make using OTHER heroes more attractive.
But the replacement of heroes with hench is bad for 2 reasons (in my opinion). First is they are using meta builds which won't work for many teams and will be nerfed with skill changes.
This, but it also forces you to use standard builds, because you can't get the NPC's to support doing anything original.
Second is it is PvP.... which for those who forget is Player versus Player. If you want to play against NPCs, go do PvE.
I might have agreed with this if GW had a 10x larger player base, but it hasn't.
EDIT: Also, yes, I would love it if they allowed heroes in AB. This would mean people could play it whenever they wanted to, instead of only during AB weekend.
That's why I chose it as an example. AB = no heroes, AB also = an eternity of waiting. I fear that other PvP will end up like that too. Remember that if a 6-man team can't start because they can't add 2 heroes, that is 6 players taken out of the equation right there. The formats concerned aren't exactly known for their PUGs, more for people from the same guild who work together well.
And for those poor PvE players who rely on heroes.... you idea is HORRID. Worst idea there is for a PvE player. If anything, the hero AI needs to be buffed as there are many things they fail at still that they shouldn't.
Aye, the AI needs a major buff in some places. I merely suggested a slight and very selective nerf. Slightly nerfing Mesmer heroes would also make using OTHER heroes more attractive.
But the replacement of heroes with hench is bad for 2 reasons (in my opinion). First is they are using meta builds which won't work for many teams and will be nerfed with skill changes.
This, but it also forces you to use standard builds, because you can't get the NPC's to support doing anything original.
Second is it is PvP.... which for those who forget is Player versus Player. If you want to play against NPCs, go do PvE.
I might have agreed with this if GW had a 10x larger player base, but it hasn't.
EDIT: Also, yes, I would love it if they allowed heroes in AB. This would mean people could play it whenever they wanted to, instead of only during AB weekend.
nkrumsvik
[quote/] 1) Human Mesmers become relatively worthless. [/quote]
Ehmm.. ok?
/NOT signed
Ehmm.. ok?
/NOT signed
Killed u man
Player vs Player.
AI shouldn't be in PvP. The ONLY, and I mean ONLY exception here would be:
In an AT/mAT a guild can pick a henchie (From the contest for example) if someone laggs out.
If someone leaves in-game, instead of graying out, his character gets replaced by a henchie of the same profession. (And only in GvG)
People should alrdy be happy you're still going to be able to feely use heroes.
AI shouldn't be in PvP. The ONLY, and I mean ONLY exception here would be:
In an AT/mAT a guild can pick a henchie (From the contest for example) if someone laggs out.
If someone leaves in-game, instead of graying out, his character gets replaced by a henchie of the same profession. (And only in GvG)
People should alrdy be happy you're still going to be able to feely use heroes.
Dobermann
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Nechrond
Posts #4 and #5 kill the official motivation for banning heroes from PvP and thus support my point. Thanks guys!
EDIT: I also have some doubts that you really run into that many Cry of Pain builds in PvP, what with it being a theoretical impossibility and all that. |
more problems with heroes in pvp: Roj monks, perfect tainted necromancers.
Also i never said anything about cry of pain in pvp, so where the hell do you get that from?
Nechrond
Let me just give you guys a logic chart to save you some time:
(int heroes ruin pvp) - no - (banning of heroes not necessary)
|
yes
|
(int players also ruin pvp) - yes - (Mesmer int needs PvP nerf)
|
no
|
(all heroes are too good in pvp) - yes - (you suck, learn to play)
|
no
|
(int heroes need PvP nerf)
The only point not on this chart is "NPC's do not belong in PvP". That would be a valid point if the player base were a lot bigger, but sadly, it isn't. Clear?
Tip for the RoJ: Step out of the RoJ already. If your opponents can keep you in the RoJ, then they're just playing well and deserve a win.
The point about tainted heroes is 100% valid, they ARE too good at that. This still does not warrant banning all heroes from PvP. My suggested hero AI change would fix it, as would implementing altered skill versions for PvP heroes.
(int heroes ruin pvp) - no - (banning of heroes not necessary)
|
yes
|
(int players also ruin pvp) - yes - (Mesmer int needs PvP nerf)
|
no
|
(all heroes are too good in pvp) - yes - (you suck, learn to play)
|
no
|
(int heroes need PvP nerf)
The only point not on this chart is "NPC's do not belong in PvP". That would be a valid point if the player base were a lot bigger, but sadly, it isn't. Clear?
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dobermann
Muppet:
more problems with heroes in pvp: Roj monks, perfect tainted necromancers. Also i never said anything about cry of pain in pvp, so where the hell do you get that from? |
The point about tainted heroes is 100% valid, they ARE too good at that. This still does not warrant banning all heroes from PvP. My suggested hero AI change would fix it, as would implementing altered skill versions for PvP heroes.
Dobermann
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Nechrond
Tip for the RoJ: Step out of the RoJ already. If your opponents can keep you in the RoJ, then they're just playing well and deserve a win.
The point about tainted heroes is 100% valid, they ARE too good at that. This still does not warrant banning all heroes from PvP. My suggested hero AI change would fix it, as would implementing altered skill versions for PvP heroes. |
Eragon Zarroc
lets ban all AI non-human playersfrom any kind of pvp -_- problem solved. no hero, no henchmen :P
Nechrond
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dobermann
so running a BB sin too keep you in the roj means "theyre playing well"?
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Eragon Zarroc
no hero, no henchmen :P
|
AlsPals
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dobermann
OMG
Heroes have raped heroes ascent too worthlessness. Rank isn't worth jack all now. |
Arkantos
Where's the AI in Player vs. Player?
Heroes have done more harm than good in PvP, so no, I'd much rather see them gone.
Heroes have done more harm than good in PvP, so no, I'd much rather see them gone.
Axel Zinfandel
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Gift3d
i lol'd and stopped right here.
|
But yeah, this is quite possibly the worst idea I've seen here a long while.
/neversigned with a side of /threadlock
MagmaRed
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Nechrond
AB has never allowed heroes, so nothing is changing there. I don't see how your idea effects AB or heroes either one in regard to this, unless you want to suggest Anet allow heroes for AB.
That's why I chose it as an example. AB = no heroes, AB also = an eternity of waiting. I fear that other PvP will end up like that too. Remember that if a 6-man team can't start because they can't add 2 heroes, that is 6 players taken out of the equation right there. The formats concerned aren't exactly known for their PUGs, more for people from the same guild who work together well. And for those poor PvE players who rely on heroes.... you idea is HORRID. Worst idea there is for a PvE player. If anything, the hero AI needs to be buffed as there are many things they fail at still that they shouldn't. Aye, the AI needs a major buff in some places. I merely suggested a slight and very selective nerf. Slightly nerfing Mesmer heroes would also make using OTHER heroes more attractive. But the replacement of heroes with hench is bad for 2 reasons (in my opinion). First is they are using meta builds which won't work for many teams and will be nerfed with skill changes. This, but it also forces you to use standard builds, because you can't get the NPC's to support doing anything original. Second is it is PvP.... which for those who forget is Player versus Player. If you want to play against NPCs, go do PvE. I might have agreed with this if GW had a 10x larger player base, but it hasn't. EDIT: Also, yes, I would love it if they allowed heroes in AB. This would mean people could play it whenever they wanted to, instead of only during AB weekend. |
I use Mesmer heroes a lot in PvE. Your slight nerf would make me not want to use them. You want changes for PvP, but what you suggest affects PvE as well.
If you can't find enough people to play any version of PvP (AB is what you mention) then you need to look harder. Change districts (Euro, American, International, etc.) and ask your guild/alliance. Although wait times may occur, I have never had to wait more than 15 minutes, and that was during an AB weekend where the place was over crowded.
Zahr Dalsk
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Nechrond
Suggestion: Nerf hero
|
/never signed, ever
Nechrond
Do not double post.
Some of you guys seem to think that admitting that you can't read more than a handful of words in one go ADDS to your credibility. If you don't read all I have to say, then don't bother replying. In case you worked on your reading skills a bit and are reading this post:
The motivation for banning heroes from PvP is that they're too good at certain things. If you think they're not, then the motivation is void and heroes shouldn't be banned. If you think they are, the logical solution would be a very selective nerf to the things they're too good at. If this could be paired with a buff to the things they're not good enough at, so much the better. Simple logic.
Then have the nerf only be effective in PvP. I'm open to suggestions and your concern is valid. I just think that banning heroes from PvP is a horrible idea.
I'm European and have a job. The time I get to play starts at about the time the Europeans stop playing, and ends at about the time the Americans get out of bed. If I just convince guildies to stay online so we can build 3 complete 4-man teams, that only means 12 people are wasting their time waiting in vain for opponents to show up. I'd gladly play with a hero team against other working guys with hero teams, because it's a lot better than not playing at all.
Do not double post.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
I stopped reading right here.
/never signed, ever |
The motivation for banning heroes from PvP is that they're too good at certain things. If you think they're not, then the motivation is void and heroes shouldn't be banned. If you think they are, the logical solution would be a very selective nerf to the things they're too good at. If this could be paired with a buff to the things they're not good enough at, so much the better. Simple logic.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by MagmaRed
I use Mesmer heroes a lot in PvE. Your slight nerf would make me not want to use them. You want changes for PvP, but what you suggest affects PvE as well.
|
Quote:
| If you can't find enough people to play any version of PvP (AB is what you mention) then you need to look harder. Change districts (Euro, American, International, etc.) and ask your guild/alliance. Although wait times may occur, I have never had to wait more than 15 minutes, and that was during an AB weekend where the place was over crowded. |
Do not double post.
MithranArkanere
Let's see.
AI in parties is meant to fill gaps in emergencies.
"Oh, no, John Doe is not here!
"And there no one else to fill the gap!"
"We'll have to fill it with an hero/henchman"
If you dumb them down, that defeats their purpose.
If you keep heroes in PvP, since the builds used for them are the dumb-proof builds that use brute force and speed and not really skill at all, you'll get dumber heroes in both PvP and PvE. And just that, you don't fix anything at all.
You just make them use worse more builds.
AI in parties is meant to fill gaps in emergencies.
"Oh, no, John Doe is not here!
"And there no one else to fill the gap!"
"We'll have to fill it with an hero/henchman"
If you dumb them down, that defeats their purpose.
If you keep heroes in PvP, since the builds used for them are the dumb-proof builds that use brute force and speed and not really skill at all, you'll get dumber heroes in both PvP and PvE. And just that, you don't fix anything at all.
You just make them use worse more builds.
Nechrond
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
Let's see.
AI in parties is meant to fill gaps in emergencies. "Oh, no, John Doe is not here! "And there no one else to fill the gap!" "We'll have to fill it with an hero/henchman" If you dumb them down, that defeats their purpose. If you keep heroes in PvP, since the builds used for them are the dumb-proof builds that use brute force and speed and not really skill at all, you'll get dumber heroes in both PvP and PvE. And just that, you don't fix anything at all. You just make them use worse more builds. |
Following your logic, the Arenanet "solution" of giving us more henchies (that also are not allowed to have common hero builds) doesn't fix anything either, plus it has all the disadvantages listed in my OP.
MagmaRed
I highly doubt it is possible to nerf the AI for PvP and not PvE as well. Skills is one thing, but AI is completely different. And if you want to argue that heroes are being removed because they are better than humans at certain jobs, then you are missing a lot of AI changes if you leave it at Mesmers and interrupts. Monks can heal someone faster than a human for the same reason a Mesmer can interrupt - reaction time is better. Tainted Flesh, Death Nova, etc., etc...... do you start to see the various AI issues that can be used to say heroes are better than humans?
If they can split the AI between PvE and PvP then I won't care what they do to the PvP AI. I don't use AI in PvP, so it won't effect me. If, however, they change the AI for heroes in PvE, they sure as hell better improve it, not nerf it.
If they can split the AI between PvE and PvP then I won't care what they do to the PvP AI. I don't use AI in PvP, so it won't effect me. If, however, they change the AI for heroes in PvE, they sure as hell better improve it, not nerf it.
Nechrond
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by MagmaRed
I highly doubt it is possible to nerf the AI for PvP and not PvE as well. Skills is one thing, but AI is completely different. And if you want to argue that heroes are being removed because they are better than humans at certain jobs, then you are missing a lot of AI changes if you leave it at Mesmers and interrupts. Monks can heal someone faster than a human for the same reason a Mesmer can interrupt - reaction time is better. Tainted Flesh, Death Nova, etc., etc...... do you start to see the various AI issues that can be used to say heroes are better than humans?
If they can split the AI between PvE and PvP then I won't care what they do to the PvP AI. I don't use AI in PvP, so it won't effect me. If, however, they change the AI for heroes in PvE, they sure as hell better improve it, not nerf it. |
Alternatively, splitting skills into 3 versions - PvE, human-PvP and hero-PvP - would suit me fine too. I agree that interrupt Mesmer and Tainted Necromancer heroes are too strong (disagree about healing Monk, undecided about Death Nova), but banning all heroes from PvP is about the worst "solution" imaginable.
MagmaRed
You disagree that a hero Monk can cast a heal faster than a human Monk? If you do, then you must disagree that a hero Mesmer can interrupt better than a human Mesmer. I didn't say a hero can heal better, I said they can react faster.
Monks can heal someone faster than a human for the same reason a Mesmer can interrupt - reaction time is better.
And I'm glad to see you know how the AI is programmed and know what is possible. I don't, which is why I said I doubt the possiblility. I didn't say it was impossible, I said I don't think it is. I still don't.
But most important thing.... you seem to want to inforce your opinion as fact.... or you are just stating your opinion very strongly. Banning heroes from PvP is not the worst solution in my mind, nor in the mind of many people I know. In fact, most of the people I know would have been happier if they didn't include the henchmen, even if they were player designed.
Monks can heal someone faster than a human for the same reason a Mesmer can interrupt - reaction time is better.
And I'm glad to see you know how the AI is programmed and know what is possible. I don't, which is why I said I doubt the possiblility. I didn't say it was impossible, I said I don't think it is. I still don't.
But most important thing.... you seem to want to inforce your opinion as fact.... or you are just stating your opinion very strongly. Banning heroes from PvP is not the worst solution in my mind, nor in the mind of many people I know. In fact, most of the people I know would have been happier if they didn't include the henchmen, even if they were player designed.
Shayne Hawke
Making the AI stupider is most certainly not a solution to anything, ever.
mage767
I find it ironic that today in high-end pve like DoA, Underworld, FOW etc, people WANT to use people to play with and not heroes. But, in high-end pvp, people WANT some heroes to make life easier for them, and they want to keep them....lol
BlackSephir
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by mage767
I find it ironic that today in high-end pve like DoA, Underworld, FOW etc, people WANT to use people to play with and not heroes. But, in high-end pvp, people WANT some heroes to make life easier for them, and they want to keep them....lol
|
xenosagafreak
The AI's stupid enough.
/notsigned.
/notsigned.
The Drunkard
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Nechrond
I believe that banning heroes from all PvP does NOT solve the real problem here, and takes away some positive aspects of the game.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Nechrond
-The game will suck for new players, killing most of the player base growth.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Nechrond
Most guilds will only pick the established players for their PvP matches. How are new players ever to get into PvP if they a) never get picked for a team, and b) can't build a team of their own with heroes?
|
[/QUOTE]
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Nechrond
Arenanet could prevent all these problems AND handle the original problem better by just making heroes a little worse at interrupt spells - e.g. make Mesmer heroes only "see" spells cast by their current target, and the last target called by their controller.
|
/notsigned
Reverend Dr
One of the worst issues of the hero has nothing to do with AI, its that one person can easily micro 1-2 skills on a spike and through only one players action create a perfect spike.
Zahr Dalsk
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Nechrond
Some of you guys seem to think that admitting that you can't read more than a handful of words in one go ADDS to your credibility.
|
Lishy
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke
Making the AI stupider is most certainly not a solution to anything, ever.
|
Although any complaints about heroes spiking and such are a little silly.
Whatever heroes do, players on ventrillo do better. Way, WAY better.
Exception maybe being interrupts. Although I don't think it's a problem in PvE since I still think a human ranger with D.Shot is better for the sole purpose of having priority.
Reverend Dr
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Kain Fz
Although any complaints about heroes spiking and such are a little silly.
Whatever heroes do, players on ventrillo do better. Way, WAY better. |
Now players can compensate for vent lag, but that is far more difficult to do reliably during a match than it is for one person to push three buttons at the same time. That's the point, it is a case where something is much easier to do with heroes than it is to do with regular players.
Nechrond
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Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
I don't think you understand, kid. The reason I stop reading at "nerf heroes" is because it follows the mentality that heroes should be nerfed, an idea usually linked to "heroes are bad" and thus not really worth reading.
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2) I love the concept of heroes, which is exactly why I want to be able to use them in PvP, which is in turn WHY I'm suggesting an alternative solution.
3) The nerf I'm suggesting is very slight and would NOT lower a hero's intelligence, only his skill. There's a difference. Improvements to the decisions heroes make in combat would be great, it's just their perfect reflexes that need a little dent.
Optimally, heroes should act like human players, so that they could really do their job of filling the gaps caused by a lack of players - but if they're BETTER at a certain job, and get picked OVER human players, there's something wrong.
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Originally Posted by Reverend Dr
Vent has lag, everyone activating skills at the same tie someone says 1, will result in a very unclean spike (unless all people on vent physically live in the same area). Two heroes under the control of a player will have the same in game lag exactly and will spike completely clean everytime.
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Quote:
| Now players can compensate for vent lag, but that is far more difficult to do reliably during a match than it is for one person to push three buttons at the same time. That's the point, it is a case where something is much easier to do with heroes than it is to do with regular players. |
obsidian ectoplasm
Heroes are bad enough, they dont need to be worse.
Nechrond
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Originally Posted by obsidian ectoplasm
Heroes are bad enough, they dont need to be worse.
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