SC nerf missed attempt and it s solutions

well what i will try to develop in this post ismy general feeling about anet attempt to nerf sc and what i believe to be the possible solution as a big user of SC that still wish they nerf it.

1- Anet does want to nerf SC ?
i believe yes cause they keep on nerfing roj / cop / shadow form (even if it had been buffed before^^) and changing behaviour of monster in uw and ofc the legendary buff of 100b

2-were thoose atempt effective ?
not at all ,
*they buff 100 b , the next day , perma is back on track with +10vs slashing and the combo feigned neutrality/shadow sanctuary
*they nerf roj + cop the next day we use foc/ renewal meteor , the next week we find out the manly spike
*they change behaviour in uw , the next day we find new way to kill dhum skel and manage new aggro and worse , it stopped poor 55hp , and "no conset" perma tank as most of warrior tank ... so now in fct due to this update , the ONLY way to do UW has become SC

3-is there a solution ?
yes:
*nerf shadow form ? ->they aparently dont want witch i agree with , perma are not over powered when not under conset

*or MY solution that would be very suitable i think :

NERF ESSENCE OF CELERITY :

+10%fast reload +10% fast incant +25% fast walk/run

no more shadow form without glyphe of swiftness or echo
= no more SC

back to team way finaly if of course they change thoose NOOB skeleton skill to something more inteligent

well i hope one day they will and wish to see you all in my team for uw

"ONLY way to do UW" is a bit of a strech. The only way to SC/exploit maybe. There are still working solo farm builds besides the 55 for farming UW (the spirit summoner build for instance). But it isn't the "only" way to play the UW. Balanced is of course, still very easy and doable (abiet, slow).

I'd rather just nip the problem directly by going after SF. That way you also nerf other forms of SC/dungeon runs that can use glyph.

Of course, if the Dhumm skills found in the .dat are legit, I think A.net already has a plan to nerf UWSC even more by just adding an end boss to the UW that SFs can't beat. When that will occur will probably be another big storyline event. Even then though, GW players are clever, so that might not be enough to stop UWSC if A.net refuses to just nerf SF.

I vote for a Shadow Form change altogether.

Go go uber end boss dhuum for SC nerf.

Nerfing the essence would only require all permas to be A/E and bring glyph of swiftness. Which, duh . . . Most of them are anyway. Only one skill slot would be lost. Only pools and possibly pits and chamber would be affected. Anyway I don't see people doing uwsc anymore. Whenever I go to ToA I may see like 1 or 2 people max doing uwsc but otherwise I see only fowsc groups. Anets recent nerf has been enough to nerf uwsc's. Proof? No more "OMGIGOTA6MINSCNUBS!!' threads.

Oh, great. Another SF thread...

Anet can do so many things to change permasins without killing off SF
some thoughts include:
-changing deadly paradox's functionality, which kills a/e and a/d
-Nerfing GoS to only affect ele skills (kills A/e)
-preventing the use of any other enchants being cast aside from SF (kills a/e, weakens a/d, makes a/me harder to maintain energy)
-Disabling all other enchants
- Adding sig of disenchant to shadow spawns and putting them in Fow, UW, Doa.
- Increasing recharge by a few sec
- Changing essence so that 20%sr changes to +10e
-etc.

It's quite obvious that Anet refuses to nerf it and tries to work around broken buids, so threads like these are just +1s.

/signed

Shadow Form needs to be hit
My view, until SF is adressed I think people will always find away around the UW additions.(skeletons)and any other new crap they toss in.
Not to mention all the other Speed clears shadow form opens up.

I would love to point out that Manlyway spikes have been around since before the CoP nerf. Plus this is another Nerf SF thread. Either abuse it like the rest of us, or keep your complaints to yourself. This is getting quite old and annoying. Go buy Factions and NF and start using it, lets see how much you complain when you running through rragars in like 13 mins or frosties in like 13 mins as well. If thats too fast, form a balanced group and take your time playing through it.

Make consets unuseable in elite area's?

Remove or nerf cons.
Change SF to be an actual form. A one that's useful in a normal game, not gimmicky farm/run builds.

I think... New descriptions...

Elite Enchantment Spell. All enchantments on you are removed. For 5...18...21 seconds, all Spells not casted by you that target you fail and all attacks against you miss, but you can't inflict damage. When Shadow Form ends, lose all but 5...41...50 Health.

Elite Enchantment Spell. For 5...18...21 seconds, enemies can't see you, but you can't inflict damage. When Shadow Form ends, lose all but 5...41...50 Health.



The meaning of a Shadow Form, is a Ghosthly Form, why enemies must see me when I'm in a ghostly form? Why i have to inflict damage when I'm a ghosthly form? I think this one can be only a simple runner.

I would say the best thing anet can do is release gw2 fast so we can all dump this broken game.

So everyone in the game WHO DOES NOT do SC should get screwed because of a few who do, the easiest way to nerf it, is to simply make SF have a longer recast time or make the enemies have touch skills that remove enchants, thus bypassing SF altogether.

I vote we stop changing the game, areas, and certain mechanics just because ONE SKILL RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOs it up.
Nerf SF.

I agree with the person above me. Just nerf the problem: SF. Don't change the areas/mechanics.

Ditto. Change the skill, not the enviros.

Thats what ppl who has brain and spent more than 2 mins thinking about it will believe.

Please not another Nerf SF thread trying to get around the problem by nerfing other stuff ....

+1 Not fair to those of us who like to solo farm UW.. I cant even do smite runs on my warrior because of those skeles, i am not happy camper

SF: 10e/2sec cast/30r: For 10...50 seconds, you cannot be targetted, but move 33% slower and speed buffs dont affect you. You deal -50% dmg with non-assassin skills and non-dagger weapons and deal +50% more damage with assassin skills and daggers. No end effect.


Pros:

-enemies cannot target you, same as the hide skill from the bmp.
-you can still kill stuff, just without sliver
-no longer needs DP or GoS to maintain
-killing groups with monks takes slower
-discourages running services
-encourages sins to use own skills

But, if that is too much for Anet to code, then here is a better solution: Make it so that no more than 2 copies of SF can be in a party.

Even simpler: disables non-assassin skills for 15 seconds.

The problem is not SF, but the fact that SF is indefinitely maintainable. Whether you hit SF directly or hit the support skills/consumables that make SF maintainable is immaterial. Arguably, hitting SF directly has less risk of resulting in unintended consequences. But some of those same support skills/items will be used to power Obsidian Flesh if SF gets hit, at little loss of efficiency in many places.

Which means that by nerfing SF - there will be no way to beat UW.


Stole the next quote from another thread because it became my favourite post regarding nerfing UWSCs:
If you can't do UW in a non-SF group now, there is a high chance that you STILL won't be able to do it even if they do trash SF!
My suggestion: get a bunch of friends that want to play in a sub-par way. That will save you oh-so much trouble!

/unsigned
no SF fix should not lead to nerfing every skills that are used along with it...

if your right foot is broken, trying to fix left foot instead is non sense, right ?

Essence is what made ursan so broken, you could spam skills without any team coordination and roll through areas. It would've been fine had they converted the damage to physical and increased the recharge on rage.

edit: Misread comment, thx hawk for pointing it out

Drunkard, I think you are misreading Elepantaliste. He agrees SF is broken, but doesn't see the point in "fixing" it by nerfing Essence. He'd rather nerf SF.

And... Essence isn't what made Ursan OP. It helped, but Ursan was still OP without it. Ursan was OP because you could perpetually keep an entire enemy mob knocked down (essentially, doing the same thing as SF... preventing enemies from even having the opportunity to even use skills against you). Essence helped, but the reason Ursan was OP (and Raven and Wolf were not) was because of the damage mitigation from perpetual kd/weakness spam combined with consistent damage.

FFS! Stop seeking ways around the most obvious thing. There's nothing more obvious than the fact that maintainable god mode is BAH-ROH-KEN. It was more than obvious mere days if not hours after the dreaded update and it should have been reverted immediately (and made a form instead of a spell to prevent Arcane Echo)

I tink this guy is right.
gw days are over.

What's the point in shadow form if you can't do damage, just for a run skill?

Personally, I want them to nerf it NOW so I can stop seeing "UWSC" or "SF" in one way or the other in the top guru threads and can now be bombarded with a new generation of QQ threads from elitist pricks about their UWSC being a normal timed run like the way farming used to be. God forbid you spend an couple hours on a GAME.

nerfing essence would just bring back the OF terra into UWSC.

simple awnser to all i have read in this post :

1-why not just nerf perma ?

perma who dont use SF are very bad farmer , compare it to a 600 it just sucks
though they are a old school build who has no reason to be nerfed as a tank ...or u must nerf defy pain and obsidian flesh also who are more powerfull tanks

2-why all essence user would be screwed ?

not screwed ,meteor use as mutch fast cast (witch is not provided actualy in essence) as fast reload for exemple , it is not just a nerf it is a change , and if u cant adapt then start playing a bit without noob conset it will help you to improve lol

try to play a bit perma without cons and u will see it is far from over powered , i go faster at farming any zonne with other characters than perma , perma is suposed to be a tank not anything else.

what i realy think is that gos never should have existed and perma should have stayed a/mes like it has been since NF release

but certainly not that they should be deleted ... if u delete perma , ok but then delete 600 , spirit spammer , 55hp , obsidian tank , well evry succesfull build ^^

600 can farm like 10 time more place than a weak perma

but nerfing essence would not affect game balance , still it would put teamway back in tracks

i am abusing it and still ask for nerf ...what about that ? too hard for u to imagine?

just to let u know , i am uwsc + fowsc + soosc+ ragnar sc all area ...
still i ask for nerf

ever heard about tanking ?




and for all that ask for SF nerf , no need for 2 reason :

1-perma are far from being good farmer without essence
compare to 600 they suck

2-perma existed as soon as NF was release , it did not unbalance the game at all , no one was doing uw under 9 minutes or 7 .
when did that occure ? when EON was released ...1 st it has been noob ursan ... then after nerf , noob uwsc (yeah i played them still think they are noob even if i m kinda pro uwsc)

ps: yes perma existed before eon , echo perma, no need "noob , gos is eon skill"



PPS: no without essence uwsc wont exist , gos perma cant uwsc , they would be slower than lot of teams and woould require too mutch candy and stuff for nrj etc
for exemple 600 would go faster (yes 600 can do all uw even if u dont know how)


AND WHY WE ASK FOR NERF IS NOT BECAUSE WE CANT PLAY SC BUT BECAUSE DUE TO SC WE CANT TEAM PUG CAUSE ALL PUG WANT TO DO SC BECAUSE IT IS OVER POWERED
SO WE ASK FOR BALANCE TO BE RETABLISHED SO THAT GW GO BACK TO A TEAM GAME WITCH IS IT S ORIGINAL PURPOSE
SORY IF YOUR ONE OF THOOSE NOOB THAT NEED UW TO BE DONE IN LESS THAN 20 MINUTE TO FIND IT INTERESTING

Even if they nerf it so can only tank, people are still going to be using it for Speed Clears. With a normal Rragars/kathy/Frostmaws team the tank (s) don't have to do any damage, just hold aggro. Frosties yes you can sliver the 4th floor, Rragars you can sliver the 2nd floor, Kathy you can solo the 1st and 2nd floor and just have your party do the 3rd with you. In theory if they make SF only a tanking skill, it won't slow down the speed clears that much, maybe make then take what another 2-3 mins. Not that big of a deal.

And it is not only getting old, but pathetic that people keep complaining about Shadow Form. Anet can't afford to get rid of it, too many people will quit the game. Even Lindsey herself said she was hesitant about touching Shadow Form, so...

This is the 986th time ive read this. Wont happen , like it didnt happen with UB nerf . At this point i dont really care if they change it , nerf it or leave it but if they do something about it , i will come here to see ppl QQ and have some fun .

bull shit

1-sc WILL be anihilated if you remove essence , i do play a lot my sin , i can tell you without essence , perma is just a very common farm build... lot slower than a 600.
specialy in the most used : FOWSC and UWSC cause other's sc even the most popular of them SOOSC are like representing 1/10 in number of player speacking
and i m quite xp at uw and fow and i can tell you frankly : doing pool , chamber , pit , terra1 or 2 , ... without conset is just bull shit , once again , 600hp go faster. and even a team would go faster and be so mutch more fun that no one would use anymore .
SC cant be without essence , any pro in SC know that.

and no , no one will leave the game if they remove SC ... like tenebrae said , it did not happen with ursan blessing nerf , it wont happen with essence nerf...
only a very few noob who will be replaced by as mutch good player who left the game because it was too easy since SC release.

All i got to said is someone has a "birdbrain" from the start and also they never think of the newcomer . Now they are stealling the fun from alot of people and also you are destroying the game. All i got to said is Nerf the stupid conset so that SF is not so OP rather then nerfing the UW which stole fun from ppl.

and if they don't get rid of it, people will farm themselves into a deep boredom and quit anyways.

Did I say anything about an essence, No. Don't put words in my mouth I never said. Noone said you can't do a Speed Clear without an essence. I've been in Frog runs that took 4 mins, NO ESSENCE, Kathy runs 3rd floor 3 mins, NO ESSENCE. All killing off essence will do is make the runs take a bit longer. You can still do A/Me and use Arcane Echo. Lastly, quite a few players, let me rephrase that, A lot of the Good players that are left, will quit if SF is nerfed. We have already lost a lot of good players to Aion, losing more will suck.

As for what the topic at hand, SF, like Lindsey said "We are hesitant to mess with SF." Does that mean they will nerf it or not, who knows. I don't and you don't. All I know is that the people that are most likely complaining about it are the folks that aren't/don't know how to abuse it.

It's nice to want things.

Shadow Form is not going to be hit, nor any skills or consumables that enable it. Too many people use it for too many farms. These farms fuel many people's attempts to fill titles, and achieve GWAMM. These people are loyal customers, and have as much right to enjoy the game as anyone else. It doesn't make any sense to make them upset.

Adding a final boss that is incompatible with Shadow Form would defeat all known speed clears, which is what they want to do.

I'll repeat. Anet wants to slow down speed clears of Elite Areas, but does not want to nerf SF from its current form.

If 1 to slow down speed clear can just nerf the conset and what Anet have done wrong is that they did not stop the player from using this UWSC as soon as this build was created which make the player develop this kind of mindset . Now its hard to throw this mindset away zzzzzz.

Non-Godmoders also have just as much right to enjoy the game. And guess what? SF upsets them. So either way, someone will be upset.

So, since those two arguments cancel each other out, I guess we're left with the argument of balance. Wait, what's that? SF is so broken that there's no point in playing anything else? It removes all challenge from the game? It makes it so that all those monsters and skills and other professions are meaningless? Well, I guess it should be fixed then.

Thank you for shooting yourself in the foot for me.

You're also ignoring the fact that Anet is concerned about SF being used for other things, such as vqs.

Actually, Anet can afford to do anything it wants at this point. Since, you know, they're not making any more money off of this puppy.

They're hesitant about nerfing SF, yet they're also saying that they recognize it's broken and that something needs to be done, for the very same reason you said they won't: too many people will leave the game.

Seriously, do you not understand that you are defending GOD MODE? You are saying that the game should have no challenge. You are saying that there should be no monsters (since SF more or less removes most of them from the game). You are saying there should be no profession other than the assassin (since a properly-utilized SF sin makes every other profession completely useless). You are saying that no player should ever die or face the possibility of loss. In effect, you are saying that there should be no game at all, since that's what you're left with at the end of the day.

Clearly, you don't know how to use SF properly, because it beats 600 at almost everything. In fact, I cannot think of a single situation in which 8 SF sins would not beat 8 600 monks (yes, even those ones with touch skills and whatnot), for the simple fact that 600 monks tend to be 2-man teams. The difference in effectiveness between the two is huge.

my guild mate said it might be the gold seller that upset the ncsoft or anet what ever but i think is ncsoft do it not anet.