So do you miss...
jay02483
does anyone here ever miss how it was before heroes, when ur guild/alliance actually got together to do missions/quests....when random groups where going to explore...now every1 desires to use heroes and be as efficent as possible and dont care bout having fun...and run the same builds as always i.e. 600 and perma...
FengShuiDove
Would have been a decent post without the end tag about 600 and perma. Now this thread will be nothing but an epic whine about those two builds.
On topic: Not really. Regular gameplay is accessible to regular players now. You don't have to constantly rely on other people if they're not available. However, that option still exists and is generally superior to AI for various reasons.
High-end is far more accessible now for both reasons... more players that have been there, done that, and are ready to move on, plus AI is now more capable than before and can fill in blank spots.
So in some ways, AI retards player interaction, in other ways it can assist it. Overall... I'm glad I don't have to run what ANet slaps on hench bars when I'm playing areas that people in my alliance don't need at the moment.
On topic: Not really. Regular gameplay is accessible to regular players now. You don't have to constantly rely on other people if they're not available. However, that option still exists and is generally superior to AI for various reasons.
High-end is far more accessible now for both reasons... more players that have been there, done that, and are ready to move on, plus AI is now more capable than before and can fill in blank spots.
So in some ways, AI retards player interaction, in other ways it can assist it. Overall... I'm glad I don't have to run what ANet slaps on hench bars when I'm playing areas that people in my alliance don't need at the moment.
jay02483
no im not whining about them im just saying they are very good builds but they r overused to the point no1 wants to run anything else...but what im trying to say i liked it how it use to be when thered be 2-3 districts on everytown on the map and it was just pugs and failing i had fun with that
Jensy
Well, I started right after NF came out, so I wasn't around for the 'good ol days' lol :P
That said, my guild/alliance still strives to do 8 human groups. None of us even HAVE a permasin. We dabbled in 600 for CoF, but it's so borrrrrrrrrrrrrrg. Never pursued 600 beyond that. We have fun. Though mostly we GvG now >_>
That said, my guild/alliance still strives to do 8 human groups. None of us even HAVE a permasin. We dabbled in 600 for CoF, but it's so borrrrrrrrrrrrrrg. Never pursued 600 beyond that. We have fun. Though mostly we GvG now >_>
Narcissia
i dont miss it. i dont like being forced into playing with a bunch of other people. that isn't fun to me.
playing with 1-3 friends + heroes is more fun than that was.
playing with 1-3 friends + heroes is more fun than that was.
Saph
I took a hiatus right before NF came out, so can't say I got to experience the whole 'no heroes' thing. But when I do group up with random pugs or guild mates with no heroes, I do have fun.
Zahr Dalsk
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does anyone here ever miss how it was before heroes, when ur guild/alliance actually got together to do missions/quests....when random groups where going to explore...now every1 desires to use heroes and be as efficent as possible and dont care bout having fun...and run the same builds as always i.e. 600 and perma...
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Introverted Dimensions
Nope.
One of the main reasons I love GW is that I can play the game without having to depend on other people. I've tried WoW and it only made me realize that GW is just a better game in so many aspects. People may and of course will disagree with me but this is my preference.
One of the main reasons I love GW is that I can play the game without having to depend on other people. I've tried WoW and it only made me realize that GW is just a better game in so many aspects. People may and of course will disagree with me but this is my preference.
Marty Silverblade
I like heroes because they meant I had more control over my party. For example, for some reason I still don't understand, I Pugged this mornings Frostmaw ZBounty. I told the ele to drop flare for obvious reasons, but there were people that agreed it is an awesome skill and deserved it's slot.
Mr. Undisclosed
I still do a crap load with my guild.
Kali Magdalene
I remember what it was like pre-heroes.
I don't miss it.
As for a time when people didn't want cookie cutter builds? Hahaha, I never played when that was true.
I don't miss it.
As for a time when people didn't want cookie cutter builds? Hahaha, I never played when that was true.
The Drunkard
I miss the simplicity of the game, and that there wasn't a large skill pool. Anet just had to add all of these extra things to keep the popularity of the game, which watered gameplay down. Nothing like beating THK back then with a full group of henchies
eeks
.. I miss dye mixing the old way, those bottles were cute. :P
Eragon Zarroc
no, i like heros. full customization and tend to be smarter than certain guildies ;-)
TheToeTag
They should get rid of Heroes,Skill Templates and PVX wiki. Then Guildwars would be fun again.
DreamWind
Meh....just another hero vs antihero thread. I don't know why I'm bothering posting, but I will anyways. This game was better before Nightfall in almost every single way I can think of.
headlesshobbs
Hero's were one thing, but Anet should have really focused on what can be gained by working in groups instead. We just further expanded on the anti-social element.
kazjun
It hasn't changed anything for me. I still go with friends or guildies. If I'm on at odd hours or waiting for the rest of the team to get in for pvp, then heroe's let me go do pve without hassle. And no, it doesn't mean I pug less. Cause before heroes, I just used the henchies unless I really needed players to run crystals or something. But in those cases, I'd just wait and do it with guildies anyway.
dan daze
Reverend Dr
There was no difference before heroes and after heroes.
Let me repeat that: There was no difference between before heroes and after heroes.
I have henched every mission in prophecies and factions multiple times. The usual rule in our guild was "just hench it." If the person in question couldn't, then they were considered hopeless.
The blame placed upon heroes is misguided. Heroes did not overnight turn the game into something that could be done single player, it was already a game that could be done single player. It was not long after heroes were added that the community at large realized that the came could be done single player, the heroes themselves are but a red herring.
If you want to blame something then blame henchmen and the community learning about the game.
Let me repeat that: There was no difference between before heroes and after heroes.
I have henched every mission in prophecies and factions multiple times. The usual rule in our guild was "just hench it." If the person in question couldn't, then they were considered hopeless.
The blame placed upon heroes is misguided. Heroes did not overnight turn the game into something that could be done single player, it was already a game that could be done single player. It was not long after heroes were added that the community at large realized that the came could be done single player, the heroes themselves are but a red herring.
If you want to blame something then blame henchmen and the community learning about the game.
Jetdoc
Trader of Secrets
I dont miss it one bit. One reason hated about the early GW was "GLF monk" for every little task, henchies hardly did the task in later areas. Even in an active guild theres not too many thats gonna be willing to just help every time u ask. Heroes just made things a bit easier in the party forming area.
bloodvayne
Quote:
Nothing like beating THK back then with a full group of henchies
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It was actually probably easier with henchies than PuGs, bonus too.
Remember having to do it with henchies because nobody would accept my mesmer in to my group, and realized I had a much easier time henching on my mesmer than PuGing on my other characters lol
In some situations I prefer PuGs to hench/hero. And I always prefer guildies/friends.
But in most cases, I prefer hench/hero, I would still be sticking with hench the majority of the time if heroes never existed, tbh.
Mylina
Few friends and fill up the rest with heroes is more fun than PUGing has ever been to me...
KZaske
Do I miss the old days, yes. The days after Sorrows before Factions were great. I think that was the zenith of the game. There are a few new professions and skills that have been added since then that are useful but as for game play, it was a lot more fun back then. If you wanted to hench; you could, if you wanted to pug; you could and no one really cared if they died or not, it was part of the price of pugging. Now if the team gets wipped because of a simple mistake on one persons part, there is at least one person to complain about what a newb everyone else is then they leave the group (thank the gods). I guess I am lucky, once they leave we normally make it with ease without the griefer.
As for heros, I both love and hate heros. But a lot of the blame they have been getting is not deserved.
As for heros, I both love and hate heros. But a lot of the blame they have been getting is not deserved.
upier
Quote:
There was no difference before heroes and after heroes.
Let me repeat that: There was no difference between before heroes and after heroes. I have henched every mission in prophecies and factions multiple times. The usual rule in our guild was "just hench it." If the person in question couldn't, then they were considered hopeless. The blame placed upon heroes is misguided. Heroes did not overnight turn the game into something that could be done single player, it was already a game that could be done single player. It was not long after heroes were added that the community at large realized that the came could be done single player, the heroes themselves are but a red herring. If you want to blame something then blame henchmen and the community learning about the game. |
I came to say this, but I was beaten to it!
I think our guild was started just a bit after Factions dropped (we needed a way for multiple people to sync Aspy and the local chat didn't cut it!) and we always advertised ourselves as group of hench-players. And if you couldn't play with hench we were not the guild you wanted.
And that was all pre-heroes.
BlackSephir
Quote:
does anyone here ever miss how it was before heroes, when ur guild/alliance actually got together to do missions/quests....
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I realized that people in my guild/alliance have better things to do than do every little quest for no reward.
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If you want to blame something then blame henchmen and the community learning about the game. |
But since gw players are morons certain to this day that warrior = tank, ele = nuker etc playing with PUGs is like wanting your brain raped.
Gift3d
inadequate pve shitters that wasted my time made me so mad dude, i find it hard to miss.
the only decent people i played with were my friends, and i mean a few of them quit, but if we really wanted to nothing is stopping us from going and doing missions as a team again.
rather what i missed was still having a lot of the game to explore. now everything's just been there, done that. but that's to be expected.
the only decent people i played with were my friends, and i mean a few of them quit, but if we really wanted to nothing is stopping us from going and doing missions as a team again.
rather what i missed was still having a lot of the game to explore. now everything's just been there, done that. but that's to be expected.
Neo Nugget
Why wouldn't you want to be as efficient as possible? I don't know why you think people don't care about having fun. Some people like to run 600 and perma sins. What's wrong with that?
Operative 14
Not really, it allows me to actually play the game.
I have a very busy schedule (as I'm sure a few here can sympathize with). My heros don't mind if I have to 'x' out suddenly or go AFK for 45 minutes because I have to do the dishes or this and that. I can actually play the game, and not spend an hour trying to get into a balanced pug. I don't need to spend a week or two trying to get past a single mission becuase I need that balance between enough time to actually do the mission (and spend about 25 minutes 'GLF MONK!'ing) and find a group that can get through the mission.
I do admit, it was fun to gear up and go to war with a group of new people and experience that thrill of 'we did it!' at the end of a successful mission. But at the end of the day, this allows me to play the game instead of using GW as a pretty IM client.
I have a very busy schedule (as I'm sure a few here can sympathize with). My heros don't mind if I have to 'x' out suddenly or go AFK for 45 minutes because I have to do the dishes or this and that. I can actually play the game, and not spend an hour trying to get into a balanced pug. I don't need to spend a week or two trying to get past a single mission becuase I need that balance between enough time to actually do the mission (and spend about 25 minutes 'GLF MONK!'ing) and find a group that can get through the mission.
I do admit, it was fun to gear up and go to war with a group of new people and experience that thrill of 'we did it!' at the end of a successful mission. But at the end of the day, this allows me to play the game instead of using GW as a pretty IM client.
QueenofDeath
If Anet had of done right and never implemented heroes or only allowed so many henchmen and nixed solo builds and running content from the start this game would have never gotten into the mess it's gotten into. It would be a group oriented game and there wouldn't be stupid foolish builds like SF and 600's and 55's. There wouldn't be threads like this one that popup every other week either or remember how it was threads before NF and GWEN and blah blah. This has become grindwars and the most zombiefied MMO/COOPRPG/MMORPG game I've ever experienced. No other has the issues this game has or a ruined economy. I started playing Star Wars Galaxies again what a great game you can have a droid and/or a pet but that's it none of this build yourself and army and play solo bs in the high end areas. You play with real people or you just don't get there.
upier
Quote:
If Anet had of done right and never implemented heroes or only allowed so many henchmen and nixed solo builds and running content from the start this game would have never gotten into the mess it's gotten into. It would be a group oriented game and there wouldn't be stupid foolish builds like SF and 600's and 55's. There wouldn't be threads like this one that popup every other week either or remember how it was threads before NF and GWEN and blah blah. This has become grindwars and the most zombiefied MMO/COOPRPG/MMORPG game I've ever experienced. No other has the issues this game has or a ruined economy. I started playing Star Wars Galaxies again what a great game you can have a droid and/or a pet but that's it none of this build yourself and army and play solo bs in the high end areas. You play with real people or you just don't get there.
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I guess the "don't get there" would apply for most places.
Scarlet Aurora
I hear ya! I especially miss dye remover : (
However, I must say I love heroes. Especially now. I'm not in an active guild and I do not have the time and dedication anymore to join an active guild. Seeing as lot of the missions are now too abandoned, trying to find a pug in some of the Tyria or Canthan missions, or even a few Elonian for that matter, is near to impossible, unless you have hours and hours to waste waiting for pugs to show up. So in that case, I love heroes. I also love it for those missions where I know that one or two idiots (esp. the kind who like to rage as soon as something goes even slightly amiss) will destroy the chance of completing an otherwise easy mission.
However, I must admit that pugs and full groups have their appeal and I am happy that Guild Wars now has the Zaishen missions and bounties. I've had some really funny and successful groups in those endeavors and also met some people with whom I've done other missions with on other occasions.
However, I must say I love heroes. Especially now. I'm not in an active guild and I do not have the time and dedication anymore to join an active guild. Seeing as lot of the missions are now too abandoned, trying to find a pug in some of the Tyria or Canthan missions, or even a few Elonian for that matter, is near to impossible, unless you have hours and hours to waste waiting for pugs to show up. So in that case, I love heroes. I also love it for those missions where I know that one or two idiots (esp. the kind who like to rage as soon as something goes even slightly amiss) will destroy the chance of completing an otherwise easy mission.
However, I must admit that pugs and full groups have their appeal and I am happy that Guild Wars now has the Zaishen missions and bounties. I've had some really funny and successful groups in those endeavors and also met some people with whom I've done other missions with on other occasions.
Sankt Hallvard
SkekSister
Quote:
If Anet had of done right and never implemented heroes or only allowed so many henchmen and nixed solo builds and running content from the start
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Heroes = good.
Reflect
7 heroes are still a must....so i dont have to play with nabs :P
MaaKotka
Before heroes I henched pretty much everything that was possible to hench, because it was already then very hard and frustrating to find a pug, that was better than full hench team. At least now I can set up half of my team's skills myself. So no I don't miss time before heroes because of heroes, but it would be nice to see more people in outposts. Also I miss old days because at then you didn't have to wait ages to get a GvG match at dead hours.
Cuilan
I miss doing quests with people. Yes, normal quests.
I still have faith in pugging and guild play. Really a group just needs a little leadership. I didn't start using heroes till EotN and till this day their AI still drives me crazy.
I still have faith in pugging and guild play. Really a group just needs a little leadership. I didn't start using heroes till EotN and till this day their AI still drives me crazy.
gremlin
The Heroes and Henchmen are what's keeping the pve side of the game going that the zaishen quests, vanquishing and titles.
When you first started with gw all your friends are pretty much at the same stage in the game so teaming up is easy and mutually beneficial.
Four years on and we are all doing different things so other than pvp and the 3 things I mentioned teaming up with opeople is rare.
When gw2 arrives we will all start together and for a few months it will be back to teaming up with people again.
All doing the same missions getting stuck in the same tough areas untill after 6 months or so you will find it lessening as some will be far in advance of others.
When you first started with gw all your friends are pretty much at the same stage in the game so teaming up is easy and mutually beneficial.
Four years on and we are all doing different things so other than pvp and the 3 things I mentioned teaming up with opeople is rare.
When gw2 arrives we will all start together and for a few months it will be back to teaming up with people again.
All doing the same missions getting stuck in the same tough areas untill after 6 months or so you will find it lessening as some will be far in advance of others.
Tresa
If you're in a guild, and you can't get a group together for outings for no other reason than it's boring to go it alone, you're in the wrong guild.
As others have noted, cookie cutter builds and the people who rely solely on them have always been an issue. I've been playing since the beginning, and have never really enjoyed PUGs because of that old "u use difrnt bild? u n00b lol" attitude, which came long before heroes, and certainly isn't unique to GW.
Like others, I'm more inclined to blame that game's age and stagnation... For a lot of us, there's so few experiences left to be had, it's sometimes hard to feel motivation to bother with something we've done 100 times already. The "been there, done that" creep-in has been more damaging than anything, IMO.
As others have noted, cookie cutter builds and the people who rely solely on them have always been an issue. I've been playing since the beginning, and have never really enjoyed PUGs because of that old "u use difrnt bild? u n00b lol" attitude, which came long before heroes, and certainly isn't unique to GW.
Like others, I'm more inclined to blame that game's age and stagnation... For a lot of us, there's so few experiences left to be had, it's sometimes hard to feel motivation to bother with something we've done 100 times already. The "been there, done that" creep-in has been more damaging than anything, IMO.