UWSC Nerf

The attempted UWSC nerf failed, the only way anet can truly kill it is too Smiters Boon SF.

Several people within my alliance, granted, some of the best UWSC'ers (the people who set the 7 minute record) made a build which could do it all in 20 minutes, still using FOUR permas.

All this update has done is kill 55's (no questions asked), virtually destroyed 330's and Terra/Famines (cant be sure as I dont have one yet) and made 600's a little bit harder.

I propose turning SF into a maintanable version of Mist Form, being that you take no damage at all, but can still be interupted, and can be target of spells (pits, plaines would get owned easily). Given the AI's stupidly accurate interupting (ive had gwen tease my infuse in HA...) this would mean that the new SF would be nigh on impossible too maintain.

Another idea would be too (as mentioned above) Smiters Boon SF. That is; make it ridiculously underpowered, infact, maybe give sf the same cost/cast/recharge as smiters boon (pvp) and have 2 types of skill balancing. "Skill balancing" and "Smiters Boon skills".

My last idea is too make the 4h quest easier, if anet truly wants people too use teams and not just cookie cutter builds, make 4h easier. No balanced team can seriously do 4h without doing a split, which in hm is virtually impossible without using Obsidian Tanks or Spellbreaker monks, but monks need skills like UA and HB as healers, not SB.

Please note this is not a rant this is a suggestion thread.

P.S, Make uw like Kanaxai and urgoz, instead of having areas too go through too get too the boss too kill in order too get the chest, you have quests.

But what's the point then? Ppl will just use SB or Obbyflesh instead of SF when fighting against monsters with interrupts.

Woohoo. It apparently has helped, because "THE BEST!" guild is now slowed down by almost 300%. Most pugs now fail, and even guilds are having a harder time with it. This, to me, screams nerf. No more do you have people mindlessly doing UWSC, it takes a bit of thought now. No matter what you do, unless you Mallyx the entire area, you're going to have gimmick builds farming the area. Or, you could go WoW's way, and just beat the crap out of areas through sheer force of numbers, but that's kinda lame, in all honesty.

Truthfully? As it stands, except for the few really good UWSC'ers, no one is going to do much there any more. The people who are good at what they do will still farm it (I still farm the planes), until a "Bash head on desk"-way is found again. And don't worry - It will be found.

For right now, no one is going to do UWSC until the rewards are buffed for the time it'll take to re-learn it, unless they're already good at it.

As foir the QQ'er saying "oh ppl will just take obsidian flesh and sb":

SO WHAT?!

Its more balanced than 6 splits and 1 group of 2 doing the whole area...

As for this:
PUGs failed normally anyway, the wastes nerf was enough too make 99% of pugs suck.

For Gods sake stop QQing and get on with it.
For ages ppl moan Uw is too easy and when anets makes it harder same ppl QQing its now too hard and its only been a week.
So what if Uwsc has slowed - Uw has changed so all old records are void and soon there will be new records.
So what if its harder - as pointed out somewhere else ... anets added skeletons which can drop ectos.Oh that means theres a slight chance increase for ectos .
Adapt/evolve/ get on with it.

Im sure there will be new Uw builds and guides soon and new records so those who are lazy and rely on others to do the work will have to wait - and those who are trying themselves .. goodluck and hope it works

Actuyally read my post, and NOT just the title noob, IM SAYING THE NERF IS NOT ENOUGH, NOT QQ'ING OVER THE NERF.

Nub.

The 4Hmen can be done with a balanced team (in HM) with or without splitting, and without using tanks. Whats more troublesome to balanced teams is the mindblade spawns after you kill a banished dream rider. None tankspank teams have a hard time against those.

Regardless: Yes, nerf SF.

Except that the nerf WAS enough. Everyone says that pugs fail - I won't dispute this, but they don't fail as often as everyone thinks. These "Uber" guilds that did 7-10 minute UWSCs consistently where not the problem, they contributed a very minute amount to the whole pool of ecto that was constantly coming into the economy. Mostly because, even with 7-8 minute UWSCs, there where STILL better farms out there, sans the rare drop from the end chest. And people did these farms instead.

Think about it: These 8m UWSCs didn't kill anything. They went for what they had to kill and ignored the rest. Pugs, on the other hand, regularly went for 20-30 minutes. In that amount of time, I could finish wastes and clear out about 90% of all the smites in there. That's a lot more ecto then just killing 15 terrorwebs.

Is your idea to kill off UWSC entirely? Because, truth be told, that's a horrible idea. As it stands, people can still get into UWSC if they're willing to learn, and can still make a profit off of it. If you want to make it so that only balanced groups can do it, then the rewards need to be greatly buffed. Even doing spiritway (Which takes about 1h) isn't worth the drops.

As it stands, UW is what it was meant to be: A place for high-end players to go. If you completely nerf it, it'll be completely empty. The crappy rewards don't justify the time put into it - It'd just be something for guilds to do when they're stupidly bored.

The UWSC nerf was 99% successful. ToA is no longer filled with LF VALE TEAM, BLABLA LEET PROS ONLY. Who cares if a handful of people can still do it in 30 minutes, the majority of the UWSC community cant.

1- you forgot lot of way to kill SC
2-any good balanced team can deal in HM with 4h ... learn a bit more from your 7 minute friends


edit on january 2010: yeah sure uwsc is only done by a few elite ? ... fuking dayway is almost more popular than uwsc ever was lol and took about 2 weeks to be started in pug ^^

you entirely nerf UWSC AND give the chest epic rewards, that is the way to go, but this is obvious..

Just because a small group of very experienced uw'ers can do it, it doesn't mean that uwsc is still an overpowered farm. Pugs sure as hell cant do it after the changes to it, so is your idea to make it so noone can do it?

Would rather they kill UWSC and get rid of those stupid friggen UW chests that tend to spawn after clearing an area. You know, the ones that drop underpowered grapes? THe ones depended upon how close you are to the chest? Make REAL drops come out, make them appear more frequently.

UW isn't what needs the nerf. Shadow Form isn't what needs the nerf. PERMA is the only problem with the whole thing. Make SF unable to be maintained, and all farming is slowed down enough that most people will find other methods.

Meh, maybe UWSC hasn't been nerfed, but like Killamus said, it has been slowed down a shit-ton. at least for now anyways. maybe that was anets intent

sooo nerf sf and kill all the other sc's just for UW????

^
Yes.
Nerf them all, -Just- For UW.
>_>.
Just nerf them all period, end of Q.Q.

^
^

Nerf SF for the fact it enables godmode in an online game.

Yes, I was in that group, and I was downright shocked at how easily 4H went.

Conversely, SoG had me sweating bullets. Perhaps it might have been easier if we had known the new spawns, but still I definitely would not place a bet on routinely clearing that one with a balanced team.

Off topic, I don't care if it adds 5 minutes to the time, from now on I am always clearing around the stupid mountain reaper before taking Restoring the Monuments.

Finally, on topic: I'm dubious of a-net's goal of nerfing UWSC without nerfing perma. It seems to me that (a) perma probably deserves a nerf, so maybe they should just do it, and (b) as this thread shows, anything you do to UWSC is likely to just get countered.

So far, the nerf hasn't been completely. And I'm guessing its effectiveness is going to decline as more people work out the counters. I'm still holding out hope for a permanent additional Dhuum quest that hoses permas totally.

I would LOVE to see SF destroyed beyond repair. IMO, SF did to GW what Henry Ford did to the world. It took away any requirement of originality, skill, and hard work. SF is a get rich fast scheme, as was the assembly line. But I've come to realize that it doesn't matter if SF is raped, because people WILL find a new way to do things like FoW and UW in incredibly low times. Look at UB, everyone loved that, farmed the shit out of everything with it, ANet nerfed it, everyone QQ'ed, then they went and found an even better way to farm fast. The problem is not with ANet or the system or the monsters in UW or even in your skill bars. The problem is in each and every one of your hearts. Your desire to dumb things down and make things as quick as possible is what's ruining this game, game, GAME, GAAAAAME. It's a video game, designed to have fun. People are so bent over making money and profits and ectos that they forgot the true value of a good time. The truth is, ectos can't buy fun. ANet can't fix this problem, only we can. There will always be a quick way to do things, and if one is nerfed, another will be found; but we don't HAVE to abuse these things. In face, we don't even have to go looking for them. Why can't we all just PUG up and have a ridiculously stupid fun time? I miss those times.

Post edited by Cebe: Removed unpleasant text.

Been to TotA lately, as in the last 72 hours? Apparently not. Killerminds summed it up nicely.

I'm sorry, someone explain to me what exactly what nerfed, or provide me a link? I can't seem to find what happened =\

lol @ assassins = high-end players.

Except that the assembly line is a staple of modern-day society. And, last I checked, originality, hard work(To some degree) and skill ARE rewarded. Perhaps even moreso then before the assembly line, but that was because before it, everyone who had a skill was forced into mediocrity, like everyone else who didn't.

I hate to break it to you, but comparing something as amazing as the assembly line to a video game is just purely bad form. Almost every modern convenience today is made by one, and it's what makes them so cheap. So unless you think that refrigerators should cost as much as a small house, of course.

And on the topic of PuGs: I like grouping up with people just as much as the next guy. I do it often with guild mates. But (With a few exceptions aside), PuGs fail, and quite consistently, even on minor areas. Maybe it says something about the state of the game, maybe it just says something about players in general, but when Alesia is a better monk then a human twice her level, then there are problems.

Having to do a simple mission over and over and over again because of bad PuGs is not my idea of fun. Maybe you're just more of a glutton for punishment then I am.

Oh, and I hate to break it to you, but some of us find fun in farming, and in trying to break the game. Finding newer, faster ways to do stuff is why I still play. Why are you trying to stop my fun when it has little-no impact on yours?

Ahh but if it were up to me, we'd all be living like Thoreau. That's how lif was meant to be. The assembly line is not amazing. It took away the requirement of learning a skill or trade, at least in most cases. Nowadays if you want to learn a real skill or trade you have to go to college for 12 years and spend more money than you'll ever make. What ever happened to a father teaching his son how to be a blacksmith? Or a young man seeking apprenticeship with someone he wants to be like? Used to one learned from someone else who had already achieved what the apprentice wanted to achieve. Now we learn from text books, no hands on experiences. Books can teach you nothing. It's like in boxing, you can train all you want on the bag, speed bag, mits, and physical exercises, but NOTHING will teach you how to fight like getting in the ring and fighting someone and having the shit knocked out of you. That's how you learn, through experience, not books.

On topic: PuGs don't always fail, that's why you have everyone ping to make sure they have a decent build. Now whether or not they can run that build is another story, but there are precautions you can take. And I'm not saying ONLY to use PuGs. I love teaming up with friends and guildies to do something. But you don't have to use gimmick cookie cutter builds for everything. Be original, think of something new to try.

Horribly, horribly wrong in the first case, second.. Not so much. The assembly line made life today what it is. Seriously, there are very few things today that are not built with an assembly line that are mass-produced. Even things like buildings are based on an assembly line. And they almost always were, too. It was just Ford that put it into all of our minds. But I will agree that it takes a good bit of skill out of making something - But I'd argue that's mostly based on the machines that make stuff now-a-days, as opposed to people who did it previously.
Alright, if you're at college for 12 years, I would expect you to have almost 2 PhDs. It's 2 years for an associates, 4 for a bachelors, 5-6 for a masters, and 6-8 for a PhD - Unless you're really lazy, then multiply that those numbers by 2. And what colleges are you looking at where you'd spend more then you'll make? Even if you're amazing at what you do, just having a diploma will increase your salary by 10-20k a year. Where I live, it's ~8k a semester for school. So 16k/year, assume a bachelors - Around 64k. So in 6 years, you'd make that back, and six years isn't much. And ever after you'd make even more money.
Yes, what did happen to that? My guess? Sheer laziness. That's exactly how I got into my profession (Except I went to my grandfather, but that's a moot point) as well as how many others that I know got into their profession. Just because you now learn at a college doesn't stop someone who wants to learn from learning, they just learn somewhere else.

You haven't actually BEEN to college, have you? Sans literature courses, almost 75% of my experience at college has been hands-on. Very little is taught out of books, and books CAN teach. They're there to help teach, to give references back to what the teacher taught, and for you to learn at your own pace. If you honestly think that books can't teach, then either you've never opened one or never tried.

I never said that you had to run the gimmick build, and there will ALWAYS be a gimmick build. It's your choice, no one elses, that forces you to run them. Heroes, guild/alliance mates, even friends (There is a friends list!) are there for that reason. By choosing to "Anally rape" shadow form, you're not impacting your play style. No one is forcing you to run shadow form - Get a group of guild mates and go do UW old style, if that's your cup of tea. It's not for me, I enjoy the challenge presented by UWSC, DoASC, FoWSC. Doing UW old style is just boring and monotonous. There's no challenge to it - Just bring a spirit-spammer and keep protective spirit on everyone. It just takes a very long time to do.

god mode ? sf ?

or you dont have perma

or you dont play it enough

want some god mode ? let me play my obsidian flesh tank but perma is very far from being invincible.


There's no challenge to it - Just bring a spirit-spammer and keep protective spirit on everyone.



until this moment you sounded quite smart .... until ...

i ll tell you 2 things :
1-pro uwsc and doasc etc most of the time cant tank descently
2-pugs are more reliable than guilds

I pray to god that you're kidding/high/mentally retarded.

Lol'd.


Well, that's what you get for being stoned while on guru.

killamus why the hell are u talking about henry ford and not defending sf.
sorry I'm being a hypocrit, I love sf as a high schooler I don't have time for 1h45min runs in dungeons and uw, hoever we all have depended on sf sometime in our li be it having a sf tank,buying an item a sf sin farmed or getting a run. its inbuilt into the community. if anetw
nts to nerf uwsc they can do two things; introduce charged darkneses instead of aataxes or introduce environmental effects into UW

1-most scer think tanking is just staying alive , non of them exept pro MT does have a clue on what aggroing and balling mean...

2-guild are so mutch s...k...ng eatch others d...ck that they most of the time fail ... pugs most of the time are used to having noob in team and deal with so they are more imaginative and take more initiative

been in with many guilds , ecto , bver , kiss , etc ...fuking bunch of failers

ofc some of them are very pro but 95% are noobs who act as they rule the world

and we probably dont aggre on who in thoose guild is pro or noob^^

what ever ... yes pugs run in the end are more reliable than guild runs when you dont run wth your well known friend who your running with evry day... witch is 05% of guilds and ally runs

see ya

SF, 55 and 600 are going to be bombed harder than Hiroshima and Nagasaki soon. So what's all this Qqing about? Once this nerfbomb hits, it'll trigger a cataclysmic BAAAAWWWWW of massive proportions causing mass exodus of all known and popular elite farming areas as we know it. Soon, you won't have anybody but you, your heroes, the henchmen and maybe a small handful of terrible players to farm with by the time it goes live. I just hope ya'll are ready for it. I sure am, considering I don't even LOL PvE/farm.

i could not are less they nerf SC or 600 (55 would be ridiculous as they can't farm nothing lol)

and if u had read better you would see that we talk about how to nerf thoose farm that evvry one agree to say that they have become too easy since eon as release

we qq about the nerf to be not effective enough

and you will leave gw if they nerf ? plz feel free to ... farmer are useless to gw ...

and finaly , i think gw is far away from being dead ... you just sound like tons of nubcake who were saying in 1999 that diablo was dead... 2010 it cost same price than gw and is easier to find in virgin for exemple.

a game does not last for it s age but because it has something more than others.
gw is more inteligent than other rpg so all we hope is that it become hard and inteligence's needing like it was before eon

yup once again let me tell you this :
conset , ursan , glyphe of swiftness , pve skills , ruined the game...
you cant spend hours playing to a video game ? then dont.
uw and fow have been concepted to be long runs 1h/4h ... not 10 minute instance.
you like fast game ? play gta3 or some good game like this but dont spoil our no life game . go back to your life thk u

I can't believe how bad you are man. The reason that the guilds you've been in have been so terrible, is because they're terrible guilds. The guilds are made up of all the random guildless scrubs in toa. Basically, your guilds have been made up of completely pugs. People who uwsc don't need to know how to tank for that area, because there's no balling involved. In DoA, if you're not balling shit up, you're not surviving, and you sure as hell won't be the tank in the future.

There's a reason that pugs don't get 7(22) minute uw, 11 minute fow etc.

1st of all you have no clue about that (pugs not running 7/22uw 11 fow)^^ pugs dont post on guru and pvx for most of them.

2nd yeah in uw you dont need lots of tanking skill exept in vale (and still very few of them) and yeah in doa you need more but does not change anything to my argument witch is most of players i meet dont know what tanking is and i can see it in doa as in fow. most perma only do solo area and only a few of them , always the sames does run the tanking area.

and you dont know a lot on my history nor the guilds i have been in or not so why bother to talk about it .

let make this guild shit clear :

pro guilds are very rare , most of guilds are either inexistant ones or uber big ones with no soul.
when you travel in gw what you see ? mainly guild tags you never heard about.
so let say thoose so called pro guilds are about 2/3% of the gw players
in thoose so called pro guilds most of the time only 1/4 to 1/2 are realy XP
so let say 1/2 of 3% ? =1.5%

so when you go in a guild run you have a 1.5% to be with descent player.

then what happen in all other case ?

would guild people be more polite ? listening ? focused ? than pugs ?
definitly not ...in fact the oposite happen most of the time :
as it is a guild run , people dont focus on playing but on talking and looking smart.
and i must add that because of people vanity , to enter guilds you MUST s..k d..ks most of the time^^ from that you can expect lot of stupid reaction .

in oposition in pug run , people are willing to look pro and are assuming they will face noob so they do their best ...


so yes i prefer pug run than guild runs ... even with well known farming guilds as scar or bver

bver? thats a sc guild? they are bad....

pugs just fail because they can't get into a guild that will teach them the right way to speed clear. So they find other pugs and teach themselves how to do the role.. thus failing runs and being bad.

guild runs- They can teach people what EXACTLY to do and have them not fail.

bull shit , maybe (and i incist on maybee) your guild does but that would be an exeption. bver are ex scar guys . and sory to say but many pugs probably just pown half of your guild... easy to criticise what you dont know
run more pug run :
1- you will learn to deal with unexpected situation
2-you will discover some guild hatter does know theyr job and just dont enter guild because they dont like the "s... m. d...k" ambiance in guilds
so they keep with friends who dont like SC for exemple but keep practicing it as pug

and about "they cant enter guild" ... i ve been approched by tons of guilds in early sc days cause i was quite xp at sin long before EON was released and specialy as perma. but i never accepted because "i dont have a master" lol
and seriously most big guilds expect you to respect them for being sutch a big guild ... not my way !

[email protected]!_____

Bver isn't ex scar memebers that would be [OhNo]

oh realy ? and dag z is not ex scar ?