Promoting Security

I was happy to read in a Q&A thread that Guru administrators would announce publicly if there were a security breach here. I'm also happy to see that there have been steps taken to protect the character names and forum-goers e-mail addresses. I appreciate those steps, efforts and assurances.

However, I still feel that there is an issue with allowing posters in high end sales threads to offer things for sale that would force anyone wanting to make the purchase to go to an RMT. Right now Jinkies has a thread open that offers many high end, ultra rare, minis for sale. Jinkies very forthrightly says they will not accept Real Money and that any prospective purchaser will need to get the thousands of ecto required from an RMT and then make the trade.

C'mon -- it doesn't take much to figure out this promotes the hacking of accounts. I haven't visited that thread in a long while, but last I looked there were 5 items priced at over 20,000 ecto each. I seriously doubt most RMTs have that type of resources available. But, I can only imagine what they'd be willing to go through to keep a $5,000 ecto order; and can't begin to imagine how many random players would need to lose everything they had accumulated to fill one of those orders. It's sickening really.

Think about who is driving the market and what you and your site might be doing to contribute to the recent spate of hijackings.

Thank you for taking the time to seriously consider all of the implications.

Ayelet, I understand the message you are trying to get across... but I don't quite know how we would ever be able to do that. So we have a cut off for what an item can be worth? Guru mods now determine what is a reasonable amount of gold/ecto for a player to have in storage? I just don't see how we can have limits such as these when it has been proven that players can and do have a ridiculous amount of gold and ectos that they have farmed and acquired through legitimate means over the course of a nearly 5 year old game.

Quote: Originally Posted by Ayelet Feldspar

However, I still feel that there is an issue with allowing posters in high end sales threads to offer things for sale that would force anyone wanting to make the purchase to go to an RMT. You could say that about any high-end sale really. Might as well shut down Ventari's because people will always want more money for shiny stuff and RMT won't go away.

Quote: Originally Posted by Savio

You could say that about any high-end sale really. Might as well shut down Ventari's because people will always want more money for shiny stuff and RMT won't go away. I disagree. In this instance (which is now moot since the thread is closed) the OP says straight up and forthrightly that you can go visit an RMT to get the funds. That should be a pretty big clue that they are advocating what is against EULA, and it sends a strong signal to me that they don't expect even the rollers to have those resources at hand.

But yes, there could be a common sense cut-off. What could be expected from the most monied traders? In the real world you can't buy a money order for more than a certain amount because of the need to curtail money laundering; the same type of common sense ceiling could be placed on the ads in Ventaris. I doubt that it would be unusual for the well monied traders to have 5,000 ecto available. But if someone is asking for more than 5,000 ecto for a trade there are going to be a very select few traders that are capable of coming up with that kind of resources. And the ones that can do it are most likely fully aware of the others that can do it too. At that point it doesn't have to be a public offering.

Ayelet,

You didn't post a link to that thread, and finding it this morning I am just as surprised as you with the wording. Our moderators had to have missed that line. I can guarantee you in no way, shape or form if I had seen that would we have ALLOWED that to remain up there. We perform hundreds of moderating actions a day, mostly in that forum looking for early bumps, multiple threads and more. We do not read through every thread and the fact that is there is a bit appalling to me as well. We uphold and enforce the EULA on this site.

I don't think you also realize how much work some of my mods can put into going in game to check out items either. We have frequently gone in game to contact users, to verify they have the rare items or suspicious items they listed for sell. I don't see how we can translate that to the same method. Perhaps we can get some opinions from those that frequent Ventari to see if maybe a limit is something they want. I have a feeling there would be an outcry, but if it's what the users want I am always open to those opinions and exploring how we can enforce those options.

If someone reported that thread then please PM me. I do not find it acceptable that this wording was allowed in the thread nor that we promoted it. I have gone ahead and started a discussion with my moderators as well to let them know that this type of thread will never be acceptable.

The user has been banned, the thread deleted.

I wish it had been brought to my attention earlier, seeing that it has been there for a month now.

To be honest I didn't report report the thread. I have squawked and stomped and compained about it, but it never occurred to me to hit the report button.

I had read the thread and gotten rather queasy, then heard that one of my guildies' accounts had been hit and gotten angry, then heard that one of my ally's accounts had gotten hit and started my little personal campaign. In all of that time I never thought of hitting the report button.

I offer sincere apologies to you.

Still, I know that you have some high-rollers on your moderation team. Perhaps you could also start a discussion with them about the possiblity of top limits for the ads; about what's reasonable and what isn't. I'd love to see some type of ceiling placed.

You know, I'd rather leave that up to forum users. The moderators will enforce any guidelines that the community feel are necessary. It would take some brainstorming to find a way to enforce this to a reasonable degree. It's an interesting idea really, I just don't know if people will be open to it.

Here we go: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...08#post4955608

I see that the thread is gone now. That is both heartening and frustrating since I had just this morning posted a link to it on Gaile's support wiki page to try to get Gaile, as well as some of the community, involved in the discussion. It might be difficult to involve very many forum users in a discussion when the thread no longer exists.

Yet, it shouldn't exist, and I'm glad to see that it's gone.

I can open it, but I don't see any benefit?? Maybe more for curiosity sake? I did acknowledge it was there, that it indeed said and promoted a user to go to a gold selling site.

If you linked it somewhere else though Ayelet I'll go ahead and open it so that the discussion can continue.

I don't expect that Gaile will respond personally, but should that happen would you let her see the thread, please?