Suggestions for Second Wind - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

KILL_MementoMori

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2009

Avenging Angels of Eternal Hate [NOT]

E/

28 Nov 2009 at 15:13 - 1

Hello dear reader,
I was looking at the Elementalist elite "Second Wind", and trying to think of a way to make it worth using. I couldn't think of a build to make it worth the elite status it has...
My suggestion is this: let it remove Exhaustion rather than cause it.
Skill description something like this:
"Remove upto 10 points of energy Exhaustion" (cost 5, cast time 2, recharge 15)
Please post your suggestions of "new" second wind's, and/or viable uses of the old one!
I'm looking forward to usefull suggestions
Thnx !

--------------------------------------------

[added]
I mean not like glyph of energy, I mean actually remove exhaustion, without energy gain or anything.
At the moment there are better ways to use your elite slot, I'm looking for a way to make it worth using!
And of course not a way to make it abusable...

---------------------------------------------

New version (see below for details):

Attribute: Energy Storage
Skill: "Remove 0..10..12 points of energy Exhaustion" (cost 15, cast time 1, recharge 15)

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

28 Nov 2009 at 16:20 - 2

I totally don't have a useful suggestion, I am just posting here to express my undying love for your avatar!

And this thread is back on track in 3 ... 2 ... 1 ...
NOW!

HawkofStorms

Hall Hero

Join Date: Aug 2005

E/

28 Nov 2009 at 16:38 - 3

/signed

Would certainly make it a unique, usable skill. Long enough recharge/cast and elite status to prevent it from being too abuseable.

It does kinda "break" a core mechanic, but even then, I can't think of any builds that would abuse this too severely. Being able to spam shock on recharge isn't exactly game changing.

Gift3d

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2007

Las Vegas

Enraged Whiny Carebears [oR]

W/E

28 Nov 2009 at 17:16 - 4

shock spam on a caster is bad anyways

gale however, would be op as hell

obviously, second wind really could use a buff cause in the state it's in right now it's hard to even consider it a skill, nevermind an elite skill at that.

or even something that's just a minor reworking of the skill. you become exhausted but gain a static amount of energy... like 5..30 and make it cost 5 energy.

paddymew

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2008

D/

28 Nov 2009 at 19:05 - 5

I would love it in PvE, not sure in PvP though. Shock/Gale spam is kinda... bad...

AtomicMew

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

N/A

28 Nov 2009 at 19:12 - 6

Just revert the cast time to 1 second. With all the powercreep, it probably won't be as OP as it once was.

FoxBat

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Amazon Basin [AB]

Mo/Me

28 Nov 2009 at 19:33 - 7

Eles generally need their elites right now, when you push an e-manage elite all it does is make e/rts. (see ether prism)

As for the OP's idea, glyph of energy already does this better, and I don't see the point of pushing the mechanic to the point it overshadows said skill.

SirNukes

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Sep 2009

28 Nov 2009 at 21:35 - 8

Quote:

Originally Posted by KILL_MementoMori

Hello dear reader,
Please post your suggestions of "new" second wind's, and/or viable uses of the old one!

I like Second Wind as it is; by not using any other exhaustion skills and keeping a little under half your energy bar exhausted, you can fill up the other half every 30 seconds or so for consistent, long term energy returns. ~40 energy every 30 seconds that can't be enchant stripped is quite nice, and you can pair it with glyph of essence to make it largely uninterruptable as well--the energy loss occurs before the energy gain. SW is certainly a niche skill since it uses your elite slot for energy, but I like it in some areas (like Mallyx' chamber).

Reverend Dr

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

Super Fans Of Gaile [ban]

W/

28 Nov 2009 at 21:45 - 9

You mean like Glyph of Energy?

When you make a bunch of elites that do the same thing (see energy storage and healing prayers lines) then generally people are going to flock to whichever one is the most efficient and ignore the rest.

If you make a skill that does the same thing as another skill, then either it will be worse then the original and nothing has really been changed, or it will be better than the original and we get more powercreep.

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

29 Nov 2009 at 09:59 - 10

Simple functionality change then:

Seccond Wind

15e/1c/30r

Echantment Spell.
For 30 seconds, next time your energy hits zero, this enchantment ends. When this enchantment ends, each skill has 50% change of instant recharge. You get 1...5 energy for each skill not recharged.

Should form fairly interesting engine, especially if it recharges self.

UnChosen

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2006

29 Nov 2009 at 10:42 - 11

Anything to improve the ele is good, especially from the exhaustion and damage dealing perspective.

/signed to both the OP and zwei2stein's ideas.

DoomFrost

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Florida

E/

29 Nov 2009 at 11:30 - 12

I'd only suggest lower the casting time to 1, increasing recharge to 10 and adding: "You gain 1..3..5 heath and..."

That way the player gets some healing out the spell.

(edit: and move it to energy storage)

Xenomortis

Tea Powered

Join Date: May 2008

UK

N/

29 Nov 2009 at 13:23 - 13

I quite like the idea of a skill to remove exhaustion.

The downside is a handful of skills who are balanced solely on exhaustion (Gale is a good example).
Removing 10 exhaustion points every 15 seconds basically means every 30 seconds, you work off 3 exhaustion causes.

I think a 15e cost would be better though, as with anything less than 10 energy, you remove more exhaustion (and thus gain more energy) than you spent into getting rid of it.

KILL_MementoMori

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2009

Avenging Angels of Eternal Hate [NOT]

E/

11 Dec 2009 at 15:22 - 14

I like the ideas here ppls, thnx for posting!
Your ideas combined have made a new idea, hear me out:
Attribute: energy-storage
Skill: "Remove 0..10..12 points of energy Exhaustion" (cost 15, cast time 1, recharge 15)
So.. its a skill so pro's and cons of spells dont occur.

I thought of energy storage because of DoomFrost (ty ty), maybe add some health gain too? Dunno its cool enough if it restores exhaustion.
I'll add the new version on top too, thnx again every1 for the great ideas and keep up the good work!

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

11 Dec 2009 at 21:22 - 15

'Second Wind' 5 / 1 / 7

Elite Skill (PVP) - Causes exhaustion. Your next offensive elementalist spell deals an additional 50% damage, and both you and your target are knocked down.

Elite Skill (PVE) - Causes exhaustion. Lasts 7 seconds - Your elementalist spells activate 50% faster and deal 50% more damage.

Both end early if you use a non elly spell.

= Ellys fix'd in HM, but cant use another elite.

Was a little OP before so I tried changing it a bit. Knockdown on self idea is to prevent imba spikes with it.

To Chicken To Die

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

Mo/

11 Dec 2009 at 23:01 - 16

Lets go crazy

Second Wind 5 / ¼ / 30

Elite Skill: You lose all energy. For ever point of energy lost you gain 30 Health.

Nah not any good ideas. Just trying to combo the name with the function.
It seems odd that Anet will change it''s attribute tho.

Magikarp

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2007

[HAWK]

13 Dec 2009 at 23:00 - 17

5/1/25

Elite Skill. Remove all exhaustion but take 4..1 point of damage for each point of exhaustion recovered. This skill causes exhaustion.

KILL_MementoMori

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2009

Avenging Angels of Eternal Hate [NOT]

E/

04 Jan 2010 at 12:11 - 18

happy new year! ~bump~

1: not bad idea bhavv, although i think it should do something heal like since "second wind" is usually a healing skill (in d&d for example).
2: the "lose all energy" s a bit nasty for ele's To Chicken To Die, i usually walk around with ~90e and i really dont need a 2700 heal

still not bad
3: I really like your idea Magikarp! remove exhaustion with a price you dont wanna pay if you're not an ele

so...
another idea:
Elite Skill: "Remove 5..20..24 points of energy Exhaustion and take 3 damage for each point of exhaustion removed" (cost 20, cast time 1, recharge 20).

yes i still think it should be in energy storage, if it has to be a non-attribute skill its hard to do something with exhaustion without enabling other professions to abuse it.

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

05 Jan 2010 at 17:54 - 19

For PvE, it could be "Remove half your exhaustion, if you are not under an enchantment, you gain the same amount as Energy. This spell causes exhaustion if you are not under an enchantment."
Then you tweak the recharge so it can't be abused... too much.

For PvP quick battles it won't be so bad... if you recovered a bit of exhaustion when dying.

Morphy

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2009

The Netherlands

Not going to keep up with that anymore

R/

06 Jan 2010 at 17:31 - 20

tl;dr

Decrease activation time to 1 or even 3/4.

Fixd.

Xenomortis

Tea Powered

Join Date: May 2008

UK

N/

06 Jan 2010 at 17:35 - 21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morphy

tl;dr

Decrease activation time to 1 or even 3/4.

Fixd.

I don't see how that would change anything.
In my view the problem lays not in the activation time or energy cost, but in the principle of the skill.

For this skill to be even a meaningful form of energy management and merit an elite slot, you need to be suffering from a fair bit of exhaustion. The fact it causes exhaustion itself really doesn't help.

Skye Marin

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2006

The Seraphim Knights [TSK]

E/A

07 Jan 2010 at 00:38 - 22

Lowering the casting time would help immensely.

Say you have a pool of energy. You maintain at ~50% exhaustion, and use the skill once every 30 seconds to relieve the exhaustion limit. This means that every 30 seconds, you net half your energy bar.

If you have a pool of 100, you can spend and gain back 50 energy every 30 seconds, which is better energy management than Offering of Blood, Power Drain, or Signet of Lost Souls on recharge. That's easily managed with focus swapping, swap to use up the deeper pool, then fill it back up, then swap back.

Even with a more reasonable pool of 80 and no swapping, you'll have better management than Offering of Spirit or PvE Energy Drain.

Xenomortis

Tea Powered

Join Date: May 2008

UK

N/

07 Jan 2010 at 00:59 - 23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skye Marin

Even with a more reasonable pool of 80 and no swapping, you'll have better management than Offering of Spirit or PvE Energy Drain.

You'd presumably be bringing skills that cast exhaustion, otherwise you wouldn't bother with SW.
It takes 30 seconds to work off 10 points of exhaustion and anything that causes exhaustion adds 10 points.

Because SW causes exhaution, if you use it more frequently than once every 30 seconds you'll start to stack exhaustion up. This is on top of any skills you may want to use that cause it.

Maximum efficiency for this skill comes when using it at around 40-50% exhaustion and when you have 5e.
It's so cumbersome to use though, I cannot see anything being made of it even with a reduced cast time.

jazilla

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2006

Guernsey Milking Coalition[MiLk]

E/Me

07 Jan 2010 at 02:50 - 24

to balance it you could have it work like Master of Magic and have it end if you use a non ele skill.

Skye Marin

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2006

The Seraphim Knights [TSK]

E/A

07 Jan 2010 at 04:38 - 25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

You'd presumably be bringing skills that cast exhaustion, otherwise you wouldn't bother with SW.
It takes 30 seconds to work off 10 points of exhaustion and anything that causes exhaustion adds 10 points.

Because SW causes exhaution, if you use it more frequently than once every 30 seconds you'll start to stack exhaustion up. This is on top of any skills you may want to use that cause it.

Maximum efficiency for this skill comes when using it at around 40-50% exhaustion and when you have 5e.
It's so cumbersome to use though, I cannot see anything being made of it even with a reduced cast time.

SW can build up enough exhaustion to make itself useful in less than 30 seconds into a match. If you're going to use it efficiently, you will actually not use it with other exhaustion skills, so you can use it exactly once every 30 seconds.

It is cumbersome exactly because it has a long cast time. Changing it to 3/4 or even 1/4 would make it good in the right hands. Other professions might be able to get some use out of it with offhands, but it is clearly designed for Eles who can manage a huge mana pool.

Morphy

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2009

The Netherlands

Not going to keep up with that anymore

R/

08 Jan 2010 at 09:12 - 26

Second Wind is potentially useful. Cancelcast it a few times to build up exhaustion, then you have a 5 recharge massive energy boost available. If only the cast time was lower.

Cebe

The 5th Celestial Boss

Join Date: Jul 2006

Inverness, Scotland

The Cult of Scaro [WHO]

E/

08 Jan 2010 at 09:23 - 27

Keep it under "No Attribute" and just change to:

5e, 2c, 45r - "Lose all exhaustion. For each 5 points of exhaustion lost you lose 5 energy and one adjacent foe is knocked down."

Morphy

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2009

The Netherlands

Not going to keep up with that anymore

R/

09 Jan 2010 at 17:15 - 28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cebe

Keep it under "No Attribute" and just change to:

5e, 2c, 45r - "Lose all exhaustion. For each 5 points of exhaustion lost you lose 5 energy and one adjacent foe is knocked down."

45 recharge? I would never use that skill in my life. Ewwwww.