Tips for the Luxon side of Fort Aspenwood.

Spawned off this thread.

Since it is the double weekend for FA and JQ, there is gonna be a lot more people doing these. Here are a few tips I have for the Luxon side (Upier gave plenty of good tips for the Kurz side)

1. TURTLES ARE YOUR FRIENDS
The Turtles and their teams are pretty much overpowered. If it wasn't for the crappy AI of the turtles, Luxons would be pretty much winning every match. Nevertheless, turtles are your best friends. Too many times I see people rez in an amber mine and ignore going back to send out the next squad. Turtles are invaluable in attacking the fort, wiping NPC's, and fighting Gunther. The turtle squads pretty much own the Kurzicks once they breach the inner gates. You have 8 Luxon Warriors, running around, smashing things, and using their stupidly awesome AI with "Coward", as the turtles spam AoE 400 damage attack skills. What's not to like? The turtles don't have great DPS, but their damage comes in spikes. So two Siege Attacks coming in at once can easily catch a monk healing Gunther off-guard.

Just a side note, I've noticed that the Luxon Warriors are godly with "Coward." They use it on anybody that is moving withing range, regardless if that person is their target or not.



2. DON'T FORGET THE RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOING TURTLES
Just to drive it in.




3. IMS is invaluable
As a Luxon, you are going to be doing alot of running around, unlike those lazy Kurzicks. An IMS is invaluable on any profession. Most people would say bring "Fall Back", but I disagree. If FA was organized, "Fall Back" would be awesome. However, in my experiences in FA I have noticed that you barely ever get more than 3 targets with your "Fall Back" past the first minute. You are better off bringing a maintainable IMS. I do, recommend "Make Haste", however. Uber buff the turtles with it, or use it on an ally that is close to you. I often go /p and spec 8 command just for "Make Haste" and the +16 armor.


4. Cap, Cap, Cap (and kill the runners)
You don't want the Kurzicks to ever have control of the mines. They may not seem important, but for turtles and their squads to have their full effect, they must be inside the fort. Turtles are not doing much damage to the Kurzicks if they are repeatedly killing the elementalists. Inside the forts, however, turtles often hit 5 or more targets, and Luxon warriors are free to run around and blow stuff up. So keeping control of the mines is essential. A dedicated capping bar is not needed because the Kurzick Ritualists are pretty weak. However, I would bring a few snares to slow down the amber runners. The Luxon warriors can take it from there.



5. Bring Enchant Removal!
It's not rocket science. Too often Luxons complain on how one Kurzick monk can hold up the fort walls. Just go /n and bring Gaze of Contempt. I can assure you that Gaze will most likely be more useful than most other skills you were going to put in its place.










Again, Upier shows he is a god walking amongst us mere mortals.

Me/Mo with RoJ and Arcane Echo.

Game won.

Some sort of self-heal is a must. Monks are usually busy healing the turtles so you can't rely on them all of the time to keep you alive. However, I've pretty much found that once the Kurzick target one person, they die anyways.

How 'bout something to repel those pesky Defy Pain warriors?

Peace and Harmony is gold for the turtle. With it's defense skill and Luxon Warriors it is untouchable in Melee, so degen and run to avoid it's attacks is normal to soloing a turtle. Peace and Harmony can easily clean the turtle.

Bodies are everywhere! A minion master can take good advantage of this. NPC enemies will blindly attack minions by spamming their spells. Oh no, 5 minions dead, but look turtle just killed 5 NPC's. Equal trade.

Basic steps to winning FA on the Luxon side:

1. Kill healers Monk and/or Rit
2. Kill NPCs
3. Win.

Most of the time people are running around trying to kill other players and takeing their eyes off the prize.

I didn't think of posting this until the weekend is over because this ruins my chances of extra keys, BUT since you guys started it ...


If you mean to repel them on the Kurzick side, you do that by running past them.
If you are asking on advice on how to repel them from the Luxon side, do not run them.
And preferably /point and /laugh at the people that do.


Seriously, the low end builds that do it all - which means do damage and have very good self-survivability - do NOT work on the Luxon side. You will not be able to do either job good enough, that means you will be dealing sub-par damage to what you could be doing and your survival skills will be self-target only which means they are absolutely subpar to just daking a dedicated healer, and you can NOT afford that on the Luxon side.
The Luxon need to play at a higher level than the Kurzick.

The damage a MM causes is nothing to write home about. It also does not guarantee to hit the target you need it to hit. It also means that before actually doing something half the battle needs to be over. Death Magic sucks.
As I noted in the Kurzick thread, a MM is something I ALWAYS tell me party members about. Which means the player will be one of the primary targets. And that means that the MM, who already isn't dealing much damage needs to bring even LESS damage dues to the need for more survival skills.
And let's not forget - minions still require a line of sight to deal damage.
You do not want to run anything that does that.




6. Do not fight the Kurzick outside the Fort.
Their ONLY job is to stall you. If they stall you, you will not win.

7. Heck, there are only a FEW Kurzick you should actually be fighting.
Your job isn't to kill players, because players spawn in a matter of second with full energy and full HP. And if this is in the Fort, that means that they will spawn pretty much where you killed them. Your job is to kill NPCs so the only people you should be attacking are the ones that prevent you from doing so. People who kill you (or damage you), despite preventing from achieving your goal, do NOT fall into this category.

8. When you are fighting the Kurzick, you should be disabling them rather than killing them while still applying some damage.
If you kill them, they respawn. Bigger and meaner then before.
If you disable them, they are useless. They are still there, they just can't do anything.
The problem?
Since your job is to kill NPCs, disabling players requires a different set of skills. Then you also need to bring ench removal. And self heals will not be sufficient so you need to have a dedicated healer.
Which means that contrary to the Kurzick side, you WILL need a right party formation. My suggestion is to call the NPC that needs to die so that your party can go into C+SPACE mode while you tell the disablers on your team to disable the monk. One of the biggest issues I keep seeing is somebody discovering that the Kurzick have a monk a and then the discovery is followed by the order to kill the monk.
If you are killing the monk, you aren't killing the NPCs.

And that brings us to:
9. There will be games that you will lose despite your team being better than the Kurzick.
There is absolutely NOTHING you can do about it. Your PARTY needs to have the right TEAM build if you want to stand a chance against the better Kurzick teams so try not to do it all within your build, because all you'll do is end up with a really shitty build.

10. The initial split HAS a meaning.
At the start most groups will split into two teams of 4. Most players actually do not put much thought in that BUT the players that go to the orange side are RESPONSIBLE for taking back the orange mine, taking back the orange command post and breaking down the orange gates.
THAT'S YOUR JOB!
THE SAME APPLIES FOR THE PURPLE TEAM!
If you can not do it, you NEED to ask for help. If you can not take back the mine, that does not mean that the mine should not be re-taken. That means you will need to use the team chat and ask someone of your players to take it back.
And that's why a good initial spilt is so important.

11. Positioning ALSO rules.
This comes into play ESPECIALLY in the area between the gates. Look at what the opposing team consists off. If the ledge is full of rangers, go under the ledge where the rangers can not hit you. If there are casters on the ledge, go to the other side side of this area, next to the stair.
The casters will not be able to hit you there.

12. Your strength is in numbers.
Unless most of your team is inside the Fort do NOT run in individually. That will only get you killed. Wait for your team to assemble and then run in together. If people do not understand your drawing, which should be your primary way of communicating with the team, you will need to write it down.

13. Time your enchantment removal and your attack skills WITH the turtle's attack.
The turtle will hit for 300 so it you rend the NPC at the moment the turtle will hit you will have a chance of killing it. Otherwise you are giving the Kurzick monks the time to react.

14. You need to send in the turtles.
The turtles do not move in automatically. You send them in by talking to the Commander at each post. Keep in mind that if the Commanders are under attack you will not be able to send in the turtle.

15. When the gates are open, USE this!
This especially comes into play when we are dealing with the green gate. If the gate is open, rush though it. That means somebody will need to take care of you. And that means they will need to take care of you in an area where you shouldn't be in. And if you shouldn't be in that area, there is a high chance they won't be in that area. Which can lead to people having to die so that they spawn in the area you are in OR having to open the doors to reach you. And that's something they should NEVER be doing.
Which means this is something that completely messes them up.

16. If the Gatekeepers are under attack they will NOT accept amber.
This is probably the singe most important thing you can know about that map. If somebody brings in amber, you rush through the green gate. And then you immediately deal some DIRECT damage to one of the Gatekeepers.
Degen does not constitute as damage! And that's not me saying that it's crap and doesn't - that's a BASIC game rule. The AI in this game does not understand that degen is damage so you can have foes degen to death and they won't notice it. Wand them once and they awaken.
That will cause the Gatekeepers to refuse the amber. And as long as they are under attack they will NOT take it.
You NEED to be able to deal that damage at range. You need to beat the guy that let you in to the Gatekeeper.
And then, positioning is all again.
If you are a caster stand in a place where your monks can heal you from OUTSIDE the gate. If you are a monk the guy that rushes in becomes your MAIN priority. You need to keep him alive! Because he will become the NUMBER ONE threat to the Kurzick and you'll probably get everyone attacking him. And that will cause some panic. And that will open room for mistakes.

17. Guys that require a line of sight to perform an action suck.
You need many things working out in your favour if you want to bring these guys. In a random format this will rarely work.
Just say no to these guys.



There are more tips - but I KNOW a few slipped my mind. (Because I remember thinking that I need to write down something a few moments ago and now I can't remember it any longer.) So I'll add more later.

Instead of using corpses for minions, it's better to use them for Well of the Profane. But bring some additional enchant removal in case one gate-npc survives without any corpses lying around.

eoe for the lulz

Luxons need to learn to ignore the Defy Pain tanks. You're not going to kill them: Leave them alone. One turtle gone isn't going to kill you. That's one more person tied up not on the Kurzick side. Remember: On the Luxon side, the timer is working AGAINST you. One minute wasted on a defy pain tank is one minute less you will have to get into green and kill Gunther.

Also, at a high percentage, DO NOT attack the gatekeepers. The excuses I hear are, "But they heal and protspirit!" The gatekeepers are not the ones you need dead: Gunther is. At 85+ percentage, Gunther and any human monks should be your sole target. Radik and Poletski do not heal for as much as people think they do, and they do not spam heal or prot.

Also...

If gateholding monks are making you Q_Q, Arcane Languor covered with backfire will stop them. Not only will you be exceptionally useful for breaking gates, you'll be useful against any other caster they happen to have.

If you can't reach the monks, they can't reach their target and your job has been done. Eles and Necros are also useful for breaking monks. AoE damage will be effective to make them move.

Also, if you are a nuker, I suggest you bring an antiinterupt skill for the NPC mesmers. They are annoying as shit.

umm no to all posts above... simply put 2 monks, 1 each side and 1 lc/rend enchantment necro... rest can be w/e. fun to see monks pissed when RE hits on the npcs

While the other advice is good so far, this one is by far the best. I would advise to bring diversion and an enchant strip or two and an interrupt. Leave res sigs at home kiddies

Two of the most important roles for Luxon side can be summed up like this: a nuker with enchant removal; and a healer to keep teammates/turtles alive. Now go in TOGETHER and work as a team. Bam. Game won.

EoE for giggles that shit is funny as hell

Spirits will work against bad teams.
Against good teams they will go down faster than it took you to put them up.
Which reminds me, I need to write this down in the Kurzick thread.


Yes.
As I have stated before, as with any other random format, SYNCING is desirable. But when it comes to Luxon FA, it's probably a bit more than desirable. You are going to NEED to successfully sync if you want to make sure that your team has all the needed roles filled. Otherwise will need to rely on luck to get you the team you need to win.


Check the Kurzick thread and check the locations where the players can glitch the turtle. Because when those guys are present and if you don't take them down the monk will either need to leave the turtle to die or he and the turtle will be effectively removed out of the game.
And without the support from the other players or the turtle, the necro WILL be worthless. The guy does not output enough damage to take down a protected and healed NPC.


The problem with a non-N combination is that you will most likely end up missing on some deep ench removal.
For instance by going mesmer with RoJ and a couple of ench removal means you will need to waste your ench removal on any decent monk - because when I monk, I have my Veil covered, just because of situations like this. And at the same time, the ele you will be trying to kill will be under many more enches such as PS and SoA completely negating your RoJ.
So one player with ench removal is not sufficient. And unless you want to waste 3+ slots on just ench removal - it needs to go deep.

The Smiting line is interesting though due to things like Scourge Healing and Scourge Enchantments. The problem that is always persistent though is how do you fit that in a build. Probably the best option would be to slot it onto a necro with Rend and Lingering. But as mentioned above, this is going to be very much a syncing build. Because on your own, this builds will not do anything. You are going to need the turtles or your team-mates to provide you with sufficient damage to make the best out of this build.



So in short, if you can, SYNC!
And then just pray that the Kurzick didn't decide to sync also. Because you SERIOUSLY do not want to be facing like 3 monks with complementing builds!



EDIT:

17. Communicate.
Now I totally forgot to write down, but discussing tactics with your team-mates is going to do wonders. Especially if the other side doesn't do the same. And given the fact that this is a random format, you can expect the other side to NOT be chatty by default.
Personally I always call when I go take back the mines or when I go to fetch the turtle. That prevents a whole mass of folks of doing the same, allowing them to focus on other tasks that will make you win.
I also moan and bitch if the other team does not take back the mine.

Try to use vengeance on a dead Savanna heat ele or RoJ monk for the lolz.

And pray they will use it on gatekeepers or Gunter.

I got a couple, been at this awhile and here are my tricks, in aditon to the above:

Send a prot monk around the back of the mine

There's a path behind the mines, and if you're fast, you can run there under IMS and get a quick prot off and deny the kurz the mine long enough for the turtle to move in behind them. Spirit Bond, Shield of absorption, even healing hands can stall their amber run long enough for them to fail.

At the opening split, Casters attack the orange gates, Melee/ranged attack the purple gates

Here's the deal, everyone likes this 4-4 or 2-6 or whatever, but it's not the numbers, it's what you send that counts. The Typical kurzick strategy is to gank 1 side with all 8, or 6-7 guys and send the rest to orange or the glitch spots. Unless you have a monk run up from behind the mines to prot them,it's absolutely futile to fight over them, and much more productive to chase amber runners through the gates, either successfully getting to key NPCs or at least stalling the amber run, then going back to cap behind them. Having said that, Casters have it easier on the orange side, it's 2 weak armored assassins, a stationary mel-shot ranger, and 2 warriors ehind the inner gates. On the Purple side is a Warrior with savage slash, and 2 mesmers with 3 interrupts apiece, then 2 assassins behind the inner gate with iron palm. Casters can blast the sins and ranger safely and easilly, and melee can outrun the warrior and bypass the mesmers, and the assassins if they run to the wide RIGHT around them then down the stairs(left puts you under the cenrtral melshot ranger), and have the perfect opportunity to do so in the openning amber rush(they will open the gates, make them pay for their stupidity or stand their stalled tillthey deal with you).

Bad melee is bad, inversely good melee can be really good:

I know in an ideal situation you have 8 monks behind green who never open the gate, but the reality is that almost never happens. There's not a whole lot that can DPS like the melee classes, even if they're outside training NPCs and they are great for harassing monks inside the green chamber while nukers wipe the NPCs, and they are the best suited to punish any breach of the gates(especially if they have shadow steps). If you can get your good melee players inside the gates, you can turn the tide of the fight. You need to go through this checklist to figure out if you qualify as a suitable melee candidate though:

A: Am I aware of my surroundings? Do I watch my radar for blue dots moving towards a gate? Am I watching where I'm running?

If you don't watch around yourself, watch where your enemies are going you can miss an opportunity to get in green and kill their NPCs, or get pulled into a mess of unpleasantness. Watch for runners or dumbasses who open the gates. If you hear that beautiful crumble sound, charge in and get yours, take a keeper(you don't have to actually do damage, just agro them so they're wanding you, then they won't accept amber. They also have 0 self defense other then prot spirit)

B:Can I survive without support where I need to be?

Biggest strength of the melee classes in FA is that they can push in and threaten stuff, and force a response from the enemy, this can push their line back, and advance your casters and turtles. Normally you have a monk backline to prot you up for stuff like this, and you have somewhere to retreat to, here you don't, so you're going to have to adapt. Normally you also have a res sig, here it is unnecessary, so it's a good place to put defense. It's almost blaspheme, but if you plan out the rest of your bar right, defy pain can let you live long enough to do what you need to do(there are much better options you can take, like 100 blades, but till you get experience it's nice, and it can be very frustrating to have a guy in green that just wont die beating on a keeper). Take the old standard shock axe, and downgrade the evis to dismember or primal to another ias more suited to the area, add defy where the res sig would be, and you have a very forgiving bar that still has most of it's offensive capabilities(it's like the remote controlled airplane with huge wings made from foam that can be glued back together with elmers, very forgiving and practically flies itself, but you can still do neat tricks with it, but you should upgrade asap).

Now, as said, your standard IAS won't work here, frenzy and primal are just to dangerous with rising bile, obsflame and spirits throwing stuff around, so consider flail(most of your important foes wont be running, those that do, you'll have to run down with bulls anyway), Burst of aggression(make sure you blow your load before it ends), or my favorite, I Will Avenge You!. IWAY Gives you minimum +3 regen if you use it as a /w, and up to 7 as a primary, it lasts out it's recharge if you time it right, there's tons of corpses in the map to fuel it, and you can run stuff down with a stance since it's a shout. It's not as fast as 33% IAS but it's duration and regen make up for it. You need to figure out when and where to use it best, but once you do, hilarity will ensue.

Lastly, you should consider active heals. Remember that the kurz mesmers are interrupt happy sickos with complicate and psychic instability and feedback and mind wrack. Don't burn them near the mesmers. Otherwise, Lions is nice, it's easy to charge, meditation and natural healing, way of perfection, crit defenses, any one of these where a res sig would go on an ordinary bar goes a long way to keeping you alive. Nothing so frustrating as beating a keeper to a sliver of it's life and going down with just 1 more hit to finish him...

C:Is my damage getting through? When confronted by the hoards of anti melee crap in this mission what will I do?

With experience, you'll learn what you can kill quickly by yourself and what you can't, and how to do so. For example, on approach to the outer gate, piss off the elementalists, so they waste their unsteady ground away from them, then get next to them, when they put ward VS melee up, you have a 50% chance to hit, you only need a couple pops to let the turtle 1 shot them, if they put up sliver, either strip it use antiblock or swap to the other. The hardest gate to break is the inner, with reckless haste added to the mix, unless you're set up to disable them at the start with something like eathshaker, lose the hexes with something like avatar of dwayna and antiblock skills or nuke through it with a 100blade+MoP combo, you're not getting past without help or luck. Upper keep is a bit easier, just whack the kurz rangers quick, decoy the unsteady ground, then take the kurz necro, it's not in a ward so you get free IAS and a 50% chance to hit, and it's not that strong. You can bypass these and go straight for the green gate, use a bow or spear to pull the jugg out and up the stairs near the turtle, and beat the crap out of it. This takes it away from healers hiding behind the gates. When attacking the gate proper, same procedure, piss off the ele so it wastes it's unsteady away from itself,then engage with a 50% hit rate or antibock. Watch the mesmers, they have complicate, psychich distration and feedback making healing very difficult. Once you're in the green gate, blow up the keepers, or anything hiding behind the gates, then unload on gunth(try and time your deep wound attacks till you hear the turtle siege, it'll make a distinctive "whahahahaaa" sound, then a boom, that's your cue). If you need to take out a mine, attack the displacement spirit first, then the cleanser, spamming any healing you have to stay alive. At the command posts, hit the necro first, then the ranger.

The most potent thing I've run here is Mark of Pain Combined with 100 Blades. It's like the manlyway or raptor farm, but you only have sun and moon slash, but the effect is similar. You can bring any given cap point to within an inch of it's life on your own in seconds before they scatter, and finish them off easily after they do. You have a lot of room for other utility.

Other thing that got my damage through was a dwayna derv with either daggers or a scythe+unblockable or AoE stuff. Watch out for the mesmers interrupts and strips. Shadow stepping derv is vicious.

A Shattering assault sin with an unblockable chain worked well too, the hexes were a factor at inner gates, but past those you're golden. The shadow steps were awesome for surprising runners too, they think they're safe, then you step up to the jugg while they're trying to hit the switch, and then they sit there with the keepers saying "fight dammit" in word bubbles as they try to ditch their bundle so they can fight, when they do, return it.

First of all, sorry for the thread necroing. I was reading the Kurzick tips for FA thread and it linked here

I met a bonder monk on the Luxon side today and was amazed when he bonded me and not the turtle. We won that match quite easily

I was a sin running Palm Strike with some knockdowns and the monk kept me alive. It took some time to take out all the NPC's and players hitting me or my guardian though, plus our Kurzick opponents probably weren't the best players. Thing is that good damage with good healers supporting them wins matches (which is logical I think)

This is true that gatekeepers do not heal as much as you think. However once a gatekeeper is dead, their gate (orange or purple) can not be rebuilt.

Some basic tips:

Keep a mini copy "U" of the map open on your screen. Zoom in or out with your scroll wheel to your need. This will help you see what gate is open or not. If you seen the green gate open, GET INSIDE.

CRTL+Shift+ALT at the same time, select target with mouse and hit space bar. You don't move and this will tell everyone you are targeting the Orange or Purple Commander at the start of the round. Only one person needs to get the turtle at the start.

Get the turtle at the start of the round.

If a gatekeeper is attacking/wanding you, the he can not receive amber. No amber means gates don't get rebuilt.

A great skill to bring is Death Charge. If I am in range of the green gate and a Kurzick opens the gate to run amber in, I'm inside. Once inside the Juggy will follow and the green gate is open.

My other favorite skill is Shadow Form. That's right, call me noob if you like but it gets the job done like no other skill. I have been running SF in FA for 3+ years. Those who know me and the rest of the "Cynns" know what I'm talking about.

Other skills to consider would include anything that will increase your speed to the green gate. Don't care what, but time is against the luxons. Bring something.

Bottom line - The key to FA is to crash the gates quickly and get in or behind the green gate and kill Gunther. Keep an eye on that objective and remember time is against you.

thankyou for necro'ing this thread. i saw the kurz one but i always play lux in FA. altho i could say i am pretty experienced at lux FA, i did like some of the excellent tips for some tricks that i did not know. i almost exclusively play monk in FA so the tip by protting the purple mine is a super excellent idea. just to hold the kurz up long enough for the turtle to get down and dirty. my guild and alliance friends and i love to sync in FA so i think we can build around a combined effort for pwnage.