Why do ppl prefer to pay for runs ? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

byteme!

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

On Earth

W/P

08 Dec 2009 at 02:15 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

It's simple. Time has value. Paying for a run can save you time.

Those of you that claim that people that buy runs are "lazy" are just wrong. Your time has value. If you play a given section of content, that time has an opportunity cost - what you could have otherwise been doing with that time.

If I can farm gold at 50k/hour (and am willing to do so), and I need to complete a section of content that will take me an hour to complete but will take a runner half an hour, then I should be willing to pay a runner any amount up to 25k less the expected value of the drops from completing the content. The half hour of my time is worth exactly that - half an hour of farming (25k) less the drops I forego by getting run instead of farming.

So if you're claiming that people that buy runs are "lazy", you're ignorant and prideful. Just saying.

There isn't anything "wrong" with buying runs, any more than there is anything "wrong" with stubbornly insisting on completing the content yourself every time you do it. They're just different sets of preferences, although your choice on the subject tends to say a lot about your ability to convert your time into in-game cash.

I was going to reply but after reading this I probably don't have to. If anyone thinks even for a second that the ONLY reason to get runs is because of laziness then that particular person is just ignorant.

I value my time far more then some virtual money. I mean what's a lousy 25k fake money worth if it could save you 1/2-1 hour of real time. I could be farming with that saved time. Heck I could go out and make a real living with the free time I created. If you really want to blow 2 hours on a dungeon thinking you're clever by all means go ahead. I was done hours ago and moving to bigger and better things. If you don't value your time that's your problem. See you at the finish line.

TIME AND EFFICIENCY IS EVERYTHING.

bigtime102

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2007

08 Dec 2009 at 05:27 - 42

Quote:

Originally Posted by byteme!

I was going to reply but after reading this I probably don't have to. If anyone thinks even for a second that the ONLY reason to get runs is because of laziness then that particular person is just ignorant.

I value my time far more then some virtual money. I mean what's a lousy 25k fake money worth if it could save you 1/2-1 hour of real time. I could be farming with that saved time. Heck I could go out and make a real living with the free time I created. If you really want to blow 2 hours on a dungeon thinking you're clever by all means go ahead. I was done hours ago and moving to bigger and better things. If you don't value your time that's your problem. See you at the finish line.

TIME AND EFFICIENCY IS EVERYTHING.

Time is money, so you do value your virtual money. Thats the difference. Nothing wrong with that. But some people value their expeirience, the journey not the destination so to speak. Spending 2 hours beating a dungeon is more valuable than spending half a hour getting someone to do it for you and another 1.5 hours farming to some people.

For example, I fought my way solo from Beacons to Droks to get my max armor for the challenge, not for the gold or time savings. The epic 12 hours slug fest against all possible odds was more valuable to me than any gold or real money for that matter that I could have made in the same time. Experience > stuff for many people.

I think part of the anger that comes from people like OP is that people who enjoy the destination more than the journey wear the same badges as the people who actually gone through the journey. In otherwords everyone gets the same Rep or chest items in the end. It would be only fair to some how distinguish , seperate people who took a taxi cab through the boston marathon, and those that actually ran it.

The only way I could think of that would ensure such a distinction would be some sort of title track or armor or whatever thats only available through H/H'ing or soloing a place. Imagine a reward that actually recognized playing the game the way the developers worked so hard to carefuly design. They'd shed a tear. On the other side there could be rewards for how fast you beat the game or how efficiently you went through it.

The point being people play many different ways and in the end all are valid and deserve their due recognition.

Jensy

Site Contributor

Join Date: Apr 2007

Phoenix, Arizona

Blinkie Ponie Armie [bpa]

N/Mo

08 Dec 2009 at 05:57 - 43

I have never once paid for a run, so I don't know. My guild/alliance is filled with people who don't suck, and we work well together. We enjoy the challenge (or, well, it's not really a challenge at this point...) of HM dungeons, guardian missions, etc.

Reverend Dr

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

Super Fans Of Gaile [ban]

W/

08 Dec 2009 at 07:01 - 44

Why are we calling it getting a run? You aren't getting run though anything, you are just paying one guy to organize a pug.

Nereyda Shoaal

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2006

Deldrimor Warcamp

Mo/W

08 Dec 2009 at 08:40 - 45

To save time.
And time is money.

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

08 Dec 2009 at 08:52 - 46

Lvl 3 ranger in Kama.
1k to the Docks.
2k to LA.
From there, got to Kaineng on my own.
Wasting 3k was a better choice since it gave me the ability of running around in the armour I LOVE and having the ability to go to Shing Jea to charm my Tigger than playing the game normally and having to waste money on upgrading (REALLY ugly) armour and having to play with a pet I do not want.

Runs give me the ability to bypass the content that I do not enjoy so that I can spend more time on content that I do.

Malice Black

Site Legend

Join Date: Oct 2005

08 Dec 2009 at 11:35 - 47

Quote:

Runs give me the ability to bypass the content that I do not enjoy so that I can spend more time on content that I do.

That covers it really.

shaygo

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2008

N/

08 Dec 2009 at 13:35 - 48

I never thought that so many responses would be written in less than 24 hours. So I probably touched a tender point.
first of all, I would like to emphasize that I meant mainly dungeon runs and not "shortcut to X destination" runs.
to those who claim that time is money, why do you play GW at all, if you don't enjoy the playing ? of course that there are other, maybe better things to do with your time but isn't reading and responding in those forums considered a waste of time as well ? and you still do it. so either you don't get near GW and play tennis instead, or don't complain obout the time loss if you chose to do play. IMHO at least.

the best thing I got from this thread is that I'm going to find myself a better guild

, fast ! I enjoy playing (the journey and not the destination, as Bigtime102 said so clearly), and I would like to do it along with other competent players.

qvtkc

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

08 Dec 2009 at 13:38 - 49

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Runs give me the ability to bypass the content that I do not enjoy so that I can spend more time on content that I do.

Indeed, runs are for cheaters. But early runs are not important, and not what OP is asking about. Endgame-area runs, including EotN dungeons and even Zaishen mission runs, are pure cheating and doesn't allow you to "bypass" content to reach something that's after it, since there is no "after". It just gives you the end reward without playing for it.

glacialphoenix

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2008

Singapore

Royal Order of Flying Lemmings [ROFL]

Mo/

08 Dec 2009 at 13:39 - 50

Hmm.

I think I paid for a dungeon run once so I could cap three skills I wanted off it. It'd have taken me far, far longer to cap them the ordinary way. I can't remember which dungeon it was, but it was one of the cheaper ones. Murakai, I think.

But I generally don't enjoy getting runs - and I mean runs, not ferries, because I do like playing through the dungeons on different characters.

Shadowspawn X

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

Fellowship of Champions

R/E

08 Dec 2009 at 14:22 - 51

Paying for runs is done because its there. Its there because of anets neglect and failure at balancing pve.

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

08 Dec 2009 at 14:44 - 52

Quote:

Originally Posted by qvtkc

Indeed, runs are for cheaters. But early runs are not important, and not what OP is asking about. Endgame-area runs, including EotN dungeons and even Zaishen mission runs, are pure cheating and doesn't allow you to "bypass" content to reach something that's after it, since there is no "after". It just gives you the end reward without playing for it.

In that case, paying for runs is just the easiest way of farming.

Garbad_the_Weak

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2005

08 Dec 2009 at 14:56 - 53

Quote:

Originally Posted by kajusbonus

"Why do ppl prefer to pay for runs ? "
They are Lazy.

Q: Why do people pay for runs?
A: To skip the crap and get to the parts of the game they prefer.

That's all there is to it. Maybe I don't feel like fighting my way through the Magumma again and I just want to try my new necro in SF.

Tom Swift

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2007

08 Dec 2009 at 15:24 - 54

Quote:

Originally Posted by qvtkc

Indeed, runs are for cheaters. But early runs are not important, and not what OP is asking about. Endgame-area runs, including EotN dungeons and even Zaishen mission runs, are pure cheating and doesn't allow you to "bypass" content to reach something that's after it, since there is no "after". It just gives you the end reward without playing for it.

Not quite. You statement would be true if dungeons were not tied to skill (or Zaishen to the coins required for the heavy pack)

Because the effectiveness of EotN skills are tied to rep level, in order to get a high rep you have limited options. Dungeons are one of the better ways to max dwarven so you need to go through dungeons again and again on each individual character both for the dwarven points in the dungeons themselves and to get that hm book filled to turn it in. I've already done all the dungeons myself on one character. I don't want to endure them repeatedly on each character just to get r10 dwarven per toon.

So yes, you are bypassing content in order to get something after that - the skills you wish to use elsewhere.

karlik

Banned

Join Date: Sep 2009

08 Dec 2009 at 16:01 - 55

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Runs give me the ability to bypass the content that I do not enjoy so that I can spend more time on content that I do.

Exactly. My Ranger is my title toon. She made the trip to Drok and has the cartography title. My ele, on the hand, is a stoneguard and exists almost entirely to farm for Nicholas. I didn’t want to spend the time getting her from Beacons to Drok just so she could farm in Mineral Springs for Nic so I paid for a run to Drok. I got my gifts and was able to go back to playing my Ranger.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

What I don't understand is why people are paying 15K for runs where the runner requires them to bring certain skills and kill mobs as well. Isn't that. . . an organized pug?

I was in Abaddons gate and saw a guy selling an Abaddon run in HM for 2k. I had already done it in HM, but I wanted to see how he was able to run that mission, so I paid the 2k. Exactly as you described, he called targets, drew us lines on the compass, and really was just party leader – it was not a “run”. I figure I got what I paid for, I just wanted to see how he did it. Not sure about how the rest of the party felt.

snaek

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

N/

08 Dec 2009 at 16:12 - 56

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Runs give me the ability to bypass the content that I do not enjoy so that I can spend more time on content that I do.

the op implied dungeon runs, which is not required content; therefore, you can completely ignore the content altogether, but no, you want the shiny reward with 0 effort.

if this was directed towards a general definition of "run" (i.e. getting ran through low-end areas to progress through storyline or new outposts), then i would agree with you. but even then, i personally would not get a run because low-end content is so ridiculously easy.

back to op: if it was in regards to getting missions and dungeons ran, then i do think its because the mishy or dungy is too hard for them or they are too lazy. with the few exception of dungeons like cof or soo, where you will get ran through multiple times not for the sake of completion, but for the sake of "farming".

Martin Alvito

Older Than God (1)

Join Date: Aug 2006

Clan Dethryche [dth]

08 Dec 2009 at 16:35 - 57

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

In that case, paying for runs is just the easiest way of farming.

Other way around. Getting people to pay you for runs is the easiest (ie: most efficient) form of farming.

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

08 Dec 2009 at 16:36 - 58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

Other way around. Getting people to pay you for runs is the easiest (ie: most efficient) form of farming.

Depends what you are farming.
If you are farming gold - then yes.
If on the other hand you farming something that can only be obtained by "playing" - such as advancing reputation titles, then no.

Martin Alvito

Older Than God (1)

Join Date: Aug 2006

Clan Dethryche [dth]

08 Dec 2009 at 16:43 - 59

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Depends what you are farming.
If you are farming gold - then yes.
If on the other hand you farming something that can only be obtained by "playing" - such as advancing reputation titles, then no.

Even then it still is. You're better off getting people to pay you for runs, then turn around and purchase the rep via runs.

SithLord2064

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2008

Phoenix, AZ

From the Ashes Rise the Pheonix

E/Me

08 Dec 2009 at 17:27 - 60

For me, the answer is very simple. I am two missions away from Legendary Guardian. I've tried MANY times to finish one of those missions with Masters. While many people say "It can be done with H/H team", personally, I'm having a LOT of problems with it. I've prolly blown 20k in consumables trying to do it myself. So, if someone were to tell me they'd run it for 20k, I'd gladly pay them at this point. I play at a time when most of my guild/alliance is asleep. And the few friends I have that still play are either A) asleep B) PvPing or C) Working on another character and too "busy" to help.

It's Jennur's Horde, in case you were wondering, that is totally kicking my ass. Can't beat it for the life of me. And believe me, I've tried it 3 or 4 different ways.

tealspikes

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2009

08 Dec 2009 at 21:05 - 61

tl;dr

to OP:
People play this game for different reasons, not just yours. Some people play for the experience/challenge, some people play to attain/achieve, and some people play for the competition (typically but not exclusive to PvP). I'm not gonna bore you with a detailed explanation of these personalities but you should understand that for the achiever who you seem to have your gripes with, getting the prize at the end IS the fun. Being able to look at their collection of x y and z items or titles makes them HAPPY, just like the challenge of going toe to toe against a powerful monster when half your party is dead might make you happy. Efficiency matters most to an achiever because how they got there isn't as important, its that they are there holding the trophy - and to the point - dungeon running is more efficient than doing it the old fashion way. Also, this personality makes up the majority in MMORPG's, so get used to them.

HawkofStorms

Hall Hero

Join Date: Aug 2005

E/

08 Dec 2009 at 21:08 - 62

It's not that people prefer to pay for runs.

It's that BAD players who CAN'T do it on there own/with guildies, prefer to pay for runs, because otherwise they have no chance of success.

Edit: Big difference between Dungeon runs... which are done purely for rewards/rep/title points
...and tradition runs to avoid certain parts of the game, like desert tours and Drok's runs. Those at least make sense if somebody does want to skip over certain things on their 18th character. Dungeon runs on the other hand, have no reason to be "skipped."

Bob Slydell

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2007

08 Dec 2009 at 21:30 - 63

I run myself with 2 accounts.

jshrimp3

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2006

Pittsburgh

The AIDS Brigades

N/

08 Dec 2009 at 21:34 - 64

I pay for dungeon runs sometimes. I do it for the rep, and if it's just a couple plat it's not a big deal. I make the cost back quickly, and I've done the dungeons before, I only want it to fill out the book and get the rep points.

But when the "run" consists of "bring dmg and heals" and costs 7k, then you're just paying someone to organize a pug, and that's just dumb in ever way.

Arduin

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

The Netherlands

Limburgse Jagers [LJ]

R/

08 Dec 2009 at 21:34 - 65

Quote:

Originally Posted by tealspikes

tl;dr

to OP:
People play this game for different reasons, not just yours. Some people play for the experience/challenge, some people play to attain/achieve, and some people play for the competition (typically but not exclusive to PvP). I'm not gonna bore you with a detailed explanation of these personalities but you should understand that for the achiever who you seem to have your gripes with, getting the prize at the end IS the fun. Being able to look at their collection of x y and z items or titles makes them HAPPY, just like the challenge of going toe to toe against a powerful monster when half your party is dead might make you happy. Efficiency matters most to an achiever because how they got there isn't as important, its that they are there holding the trophy - and to the point - dungeon running is more efficient than doing it the old fashion way. Also, this personality makes up the majority in MMORPG's, so get used to them.

This. You might not define 'getting ran to fill HM books' or acquiring gold through farming as playing, shaygo, but there are people who do enjoy those aspects of GW.

You call those people lazy? What for? Because they don't fit into your frame of 'this is how GW should be played' ?

Golgotha

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Rt/

08 Dec 2009 at 22:06 - 66

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduinna

You call those people lazy? What for? Because they don't fit into your frame of 'this is how GW should be played' ?

That seems to be a prominent sentiment around these parts.

Arduin

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

The Netherlands

Limburgse Jagers [LJ]

R/

08 Dec 2009 at 22:17 - 67

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golgotha

That seems to be a prominent sentiment around these parts.

Of which I am guilty too, on occasion

asb

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2008

Europe

Me/

08 Dec 2009 at 22:29 - 68

OP: I only get runs to waste time, work on drunkard/TH, and to a small degree for the lottery effect of maybe getting something good of out the end chest. When I run for myself(600/smite), I usually do it with a friend, so we have something to do while chatting. I don't care about maxing titles - I try to to get them high enough for the skills I like to use on certain chars to do work decently. When I feel like actually working on them, I do some eotn missions.
I've never been in a guild, so I haven't had the joy/annoyance of doing dungeons and elite areas as originally intended, but if I ever join one that does these things, I'll gladly participate. You know, for the fun of fighting your way through stuff.

Turbo Ginsu

I despise facebook

Join Date: Feb 2008

Australia

Meeting of the Lost Minds

Me/

08 Dec 2009 at 22:40 - 69

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

*Snipped*

It's not that people prefer to pay for runs.

It's that BAD players who CAN'T do it on there own/with guildies, prefer to pay for runs, because otherwise they have no chance of success.

I have 10 active toons. One of each, because well, I like all of the classes and want to use them all. So I do.
I have 2 monks that I 600 and 55 with, an ele too, 330 rit, can farm raptors with ele, sin, mes, ranger and war. Most of the dungeons I get runs through,(Mainly for rep, shinies are a myth)I can run myself with no problems.

What I see here is, an attempt at justifying thousands, yes thousands of grinds through SoO for the 3 BDS's that I've looted from there since I started. Nope, sorry. If it were items I was after, I'd get a run. Just because my guild can adventure as a team through there, and do, it's just a fact that in a game as big as GW, we all have much more important things to do than grind for weeks to get rep or non-existant shinies.

Runs are fast and economical. And free us up to actually play.

Insulting people and calling them bad players, simply to justify your own personal outlook on how things should be done, is elitism at it's worst. If it comes to that, well, I started gaming in 1979, and picked up my first rpg not long after. By my reckoning, weight of years and experience would have me dictate terms on how things should be done. Unless of course, someone who's been gaming longer than I have would rather tell you.

Pure and simple. Enjoy the game the way you like to, and pay no heed to people who want to teach your grandmother how to suck eggs.

As long as you aren't hacking, it's all good. Enjoy your game.

StormDragonZ

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2008

New York

W/R

08 Dec 2009 at 22:47 - 70

I've figured it down to three major reasons:

A) You have the money for it.
B) You lost the patience because you have failed too many times with many different groups, both PUG and Guild/Friends.
C) You want Zaishen Coins now!

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

08 Dec 2009 at 22:54 - 71

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

Even then it still is. You're better off getting people to pay you for runs, then turn around and purchase the rep via runs.

If you purchase runs to avoid having to do content you do not want to do, why would you then run it?

JimmyNeutron

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2007

08 Dec 2009 at 23:16 - 72

People who complain about runners are poor class and have no gold.
People that buy runs are upper class and have gold.

See?

Ever heard of someone w/ 5,000K or more complaining that [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], etc... is too expensive????????????? NO!!!!

So if you're poor, complain away. If you're rich, let me know what dungeons you need run in Doomlore and I'll tell you my price.

UnChosen

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2006

08 Dec 2009 at 23:34 - 73

Quote:

Originally Posted by StormDragonZ

I've figured it down to three major reasons:

A) You have the money for it.
B) You lost the patience because you have failed too many times with many different groups, both PUG and Guild/Friends.
C) You want Zaishen Coins now!

Even if you don't fail its still better to get a run, just because its economically better to do so. Paying 25k for 30min run then farm 45k in the next 1.5 hour = net 20k + Junk + 2 diamond. Playing normally with pugs for 2 hour = just junk + 2 diamonds.

Anakita Snakecharm

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2009

The Shining Blade Camp

Nouvel Ordre de Phoenix [MJM]

R/Mo

08 Dec 2009 at 23:55 - 74

Quote:

Ever heard of someone w/ 5,000K or more complaining that [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], etc... is too expensive????????????? NO!!!!

I think that's a bit... simplistic. Just because someone has the capability to afford something, doesn't mean they universally feel it's a worthwhile use of their money. Someone may just choose not to invest that much gold in a run, and they have that right.

I wouldn't pay for a run that expensive, personally. That doesn't mean I think no one should, or that runners shouldn't charge that much. Just that I myself wouldn't do it.

It's perfectly reasonable to feel that a cost is more than you're willing to pay for a service, even if you can technically afford that cost. I mean, if the grocery store was selling a loaf of bread for the price of a month's rent, the fact I have the ability to pay my rent doesn't obligate me to feel that the cost of the bread is reasonable for me, or that I should be expected to purchase it without complaint.

The bread is a deliberately exaggerated example-- I'm not saying your runs aren't worth it. Clearly they are to some people, since you regularly get customers. But saying "The only people who wouldn't want my service at my selected pricepoint are the people who can't afford it" is a bit unrealistic.

Turbo Ginsu

I despise facebook

Join Date: Feb 2008

Australia

Meeting of the Lost Minds

Me/

09 Dec 2009 at 02:20 - 75

Well, as a lovely addendum to my previous notes on the pro's of getting a run, I have a little story.

My wife and I play together a fair bit, sort of a family thang, us both being avid GW nuts, and we decided to run shards together, her as the perma, myself as the 600. Teamwork even.

Took our time y'know, as you do, and killed everything, and after an exhaustive battle, reached Fendi and Co. The battle was glorious, and much fun was being had. *Bam!!* Down goes Fendi. Sooo, over to the big gold box of tricks we go, to claim our prize. We sure weren't disappointed.

She got 2 onyx.
I got 2 diamonds.

In hard mode.

It's just a good thing that we enjoy playing together, and enjoy running dungeons together, for fun, rep and precious gemstones of little worth, not for paying customers or for the chance of rewards or anything preposterous like that..

Martin Alvito

Older Than God (1)

Join Date: Aug 2006

Clan Dethryche [dth]

09 Dec 2009 at 02:30 - 76

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

If you purchase runs to avoid having to do content you do not want to do, why would you then run it?

You run efficient run A yourself. You buy inefficient run B from somebody else. Eg: You won't find me completing CoF myself when I can dual client and do something more productive in the meantime.

Trader of Secrets

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2006

09 Dec 2009 at 04:22 - 77

I wouldnt prefer to pay for a run, but for stuff like HM dungeons where you would need to get people together and takes more time than just a run, a run would be worth it. I see it like this: I farm the money, the amount of time to farm the money is basically my dungeon time. I would just sit back and do my hw or something while i wait on the run

YunSooJin

Pyromaniac

Join Date: Aug 2005

Mo/W

09 Dec 2009 at 04:27 - 78

I refuse to believe the OP is asking this question seriously. Must be trollin'.

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

09 Dec 2009 at 08:24 - 79

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

You run efficient run A yourself. You buy inefficient run B from somebody else. Eg: You won't find me completing CoF myself when I can dual client and do something more productive in the meantime.

I can see your point, but the spectrum of options why somebody would choose to not do an area is much bigger than just the area not being profitable.

cosyfiep

are we there yet?

Join Date: Dec 2005

in a land far far away

guild? I am supposed to have a guild?

Rt/

09 Dec 2009 at 08:49 - 80

up until eton I never had a run....but grinding for points is....well almost pointless...so paying for a run (and no I am not rich--I have to play the game to get enough plat even for a 4k run!) is a better use of my time ....and my guild is right now basically me......
The runs I have had done were all HM, and usually dungeons that if I were to FIND a pug would laugh at my character wanting a spot.....there is just so many hours you can sit spamming 'lfg' .....would rather pay someone and get it over with at that point.