Primary Ritualist, why?
Gennadios
SP also makes minions alot more durable. I'm talking surviving ele bosses sliver armor in HM durable.
Zahr Dalsk
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrogant Bastard
Depends on what kind of team you are using.
I'd love to know what team build you've got where bone minions don't cover that role far better.
Arrogant Bastard
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
I'd love to know what team build you've got where bone minions don't cover that role far better.
UW using this team:
Primary role for Rit is to tank 1 side for 4H and for Earthbind.
Bone Minions die faster, deal less damage, require corpses, and are more susceptible to AoE.
Primary role for Rit is to tank 1 side for 4H and for Earthbind.
Bone Minions die faster, deal less damage, require corpses, and are more susceptible to AoE.
AndroBubbles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrogant Bastard
Rits cannot spike or heal as good as other professions.
You're funny.
maxxfury
Its funny because a elem does heal and prot better than anyone else.
Arrogant Bastard
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndroBubbles
You're funny.
Post a rit build that spikes better or heals better than monks/eles.
AndroBubbles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrogant Bastard
SoS restoration is easily comparable to a monk, and a well placed splinter weapon is a spike in itself, which can be added to with ancestor's rage. Or I can use the SoS spammer with painful bond to absorb some aggro AND apply a lot of damage.
To give one other skill as an example: Recuperation has one of the highest potentials for net healing in the game. It supports any ally (sans spirits) in range. If you calculate with restoration at 14, it gives a net total of 258 health PER ally. Remember that this effect includes the minions you use for tanking and activating your offensive hexes, and all other beneficial NPCs in range. In an area where sustained battle is common, it's hard to match that.
Quote:
Its funny because a elem does heal and prot better than anyone else.
Yes, but that's obvious. My point is that ritualists are more than capable of doing multiple jobs very well.
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reaper with no name
The only potential advantage of using a ranger or necro over a rit for spirit spam is that you don't need boon of creation or spirit siphon, and can therefore bring along another spirit (assuming your passive energy management is enough to fuel that extra spirit).
This seems like it would make necros and rangers better spirit spammers, but let's look at the math.
Let's assume a build like this:
SoS
Pain
Bloodsong
Anguish
Vampirism
Painful Bond
Spirit Siphon (Rit)/Bloodsong (N/Rt or R/Rt)
AoU
The rit gets 16 channeling, 13 communing, and 4 SP. The non-rit gets 12 channeling, 12 communing, and 6 SR or Expertise.
For the rit:
SoS 34 dmg x3
Pain 27 dmg
Bloodsong 26 dmg
Anguish 18 dmg x2
Vampirism 20 dmg
Painful Bond 21 dmg x7
211+147=358
Non-rit:
SoS 27 dmg x3
Pain 25 dmg
Bloodsong 21 dmg
Anguish 17 dmg x2
Vampirism 20 dmg
Shadowsong 17 dmg
Painful Bond 18 dmg x8
198+144=342
Nope. Even though the rit has one less spirit, they still win out in damage. Oh, and the less spirits you bring with you, the worst this gets for the non-rit, because then SoS becomes a bigger and bigger portion of the damage (and that's one of the major places where the rit comes out on top). Oh, and this is all while having tougher spirits (spirits gain 6 armor and 20 health per level, and there's also SP to consider), and superior energy management overall thanks to spirit siphon.
Now, at 14 channeling the necro and ranger can beat the rit in pure damage output, but the rit is still going to have tougher spirits and better energy management, and the toughness of spirits is half the point. They just don't RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing die.
Of course, it's not even a fair comparison, because then we're assuming the rit won't take a superior rune for channeling but the necro or ranger will take a superior rune for soul reaping/expertise. So we have to assume they don't do that. But now there's a problem. 4 SR or Expertise won't be nearly enough to fuel the extra spirit that would be required to beat the rit in damage. So the rit still wins.
This seems like it would make necros and rangers better spirit spammers, but let's look at the math.
Let's assume a build like this:
SoS
Pain
Bloodsong
Anguish
Vampirism
Painful Bond
Spirit Siphon (Rit)/Bloodsong (N/Rt or R/Rt)
AoU
The rit gets 16 channeling, 13 communing, and 4 SP. The non-rit gets 12 channeling, 12 communing, and 6 SR or Expertise.
For the rit:
SoS 34 dmg x3
Pain 27 dmg
Bloodsong 26 dmg
Anguish 18 dmg x2
Vampirism 20 dmg
Painful Bond 21 dmg x7
211+147=358
Non-rit:
SoS 27 dmg x3
Pain 25 dmg
Bloodsong 21 dmg
Anguish 17 dmg x2
Vampirism 20 dmg
Shadowsong 17 dmg
Painful Bond 18 dmg x8
198+144=342
Nope. Even though the rit has one less spirit, they still win out in damage. Oh, and the less spirits you bring with you, the worst this gets for the non-rit, because then SoS becomes a bigger and bigger portion of the damage (and that's one of the major places where the rit comes out on top). Oh, and this is all while having tougher spirits (spirits gain 6 armor and 20 health per level, and there's also SP to consider), and superior energy management overall thanks to spirit siphon.
Now, at 14 channeling the necro and ranger can beat the rit in pure damage output, but the rit is still going to have tougher spirits and better energy management, and the toughness of spirits is half the point. They just don't RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing die.
Of course, it's not even a fair comparison, because then we're assuming the rit won't take a superior rune for channeling but the necro or ranger will take a superior rune for soul reaping/expertise. So we have to assume they don't do that. But now there's a problem. 4 SR or Expertise won't be nearly enough to fuel the extra spirit that would be required to beat the rit in damage. So the rit still wins.
maxxfury
I think everyone has missed the BIGGEST reason why a Rit primary si better for this! 
The twisty cool dancing casting animation is epic!
As well as the higher spec splinter! or a longer duration gdw.
To be honest with an sos bar, if you need more Eman that siphon spirit....hmm
The twisty cool dancing casting animation is epic!
As well as the higher spec splinter! or a longer duration gdw.
To be honest with an sos bar, if you need more Eman that siphon spirit....hmm
upier
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxxfury
The twisty cool dancing casting animation is epic! Correction, it WAS.
The longer casting animations felt like the guy worshipped the gods and called upon the souls from an another realm of existence. The new, 1 sec cast times just look like he's suffering from a spasm.
That was the first thing I raged about after the change when everyone was going "Uhhh, ahhh, ohhh!"
maxxfury
Cant deny it was better with longer casts. 
/good point
/good point
Xenomortis
Genius Was Revrac
Another very awesome combo for the Ritualist is the Ebon Vanguard Sin and Asuran summon skills. With Spawning at 13 those pve summon skills can do some serious tanking. I have seen my 20th lvl ebon sin tank whole mobs for the duration of the spell.
AndroBubbles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Genius Was Revrac
Another very awesome combo for the Ritualist is the Ebon Vanguard Sin and Asuran summon skills. With Spawning at 13 those pve summon skills can do some serious tanking. I have seen my 20th lvl ebon sin tank whole mobs for the duration of the spell.
That's an interesting combination that I hadn't thought a lot about. I'll try that out sometime.
FyrFytr998
The Josip
At 12 in Channeling and 12 in Communing, a non-Rt primary will need to... mmm.. wait 2 seconds longer to bring down a mob in PvE, compared to Rt primary.
upier
Of course, but then you also need to ask yourself why would you put up with those "2 seconds"? When you have players looking for the best option, being "2 seconds" slower WITH NO OTHER BONUSES just isn't as good as the best option.
The Josip
The point was that other professions can play SoS nicely thus primary Rt makes little sense overall. Yes, you gain 2 sec per mob as SoS Rt, but try abusing ele skill ER as Rt - it's not going well right? And that's what I'm talking about. Some classes ANet seems to design as secondary classes, while some other classes are designed as "Exclusive". Remember CoP? Typical secondary class treatment of Mesmers. But can mesmer spam Seed of Life? Not really. The main problem is lack of consistency. If some skills should be restricted to some class.. let's say sunspear skills - then restrict all of them. Instead, we have "skills for all" and "skills just for privileged classes".
upier
Every class has things that they do better than everyone else. The problem appears because the things certain classes excel at turn out to be completely worthless in PvE - and that's the result of A.Net's complete lack of understanding of the PvE side of their game.
Arrogant Bastard
MasterSasori
HigherMinion
Teknikaali
Just a side note here..
I did the ZBounty yesterday, Tomb of the Primeval Kings with a pug warrior - discordway. When I joined him and his heroes, I saw he was W/Rt.. I was like.. "No.. can't.. this.. just can't be happening!"
Second after I had fixed my heroes' builds he just said "I think you know my build" o_O
I expected it, I feared it, I sensed it.. Yes, W/Rt spirit spammer.
So as a main profession Ritualist I let the Warrior do the spirit spamming, as that's what Warriors are made for, not Rituali.... wait what? O_O
It didn't really feel good when he claimed he had vanquished most of the areas with that build etc. etc.. But I let him do that just to see if he did good. And he did. Though anything works with discordway, there just wasn't any reason for me to start arguing "how main ritualists do it better" as the gap ain't that big (~10dmg or something, stated before in this thread) as enemies targeted the minions more than the spirits for some reason (no need for spawning power here for extra hp :\)
Random pugs don't matter, but when it comes to endgame-areas like FoW and UW, primary ritualist is really the best choice for splinter + spirits.
It didn't feel good, yes, I felt myself a little bit useless there..
Now I've actually seen how small the gap is for primary and non-primary spirit spammer.
For me it's self-evident to run spirit spamming on a primary Rit and let only ritualists use their "main powers" in a group. But if there isn't a ritualist available, why not let someone else do it, doesn't matter much?
Bleh. Well, just pointing out here that even a 2pip profession can use spirits with no problems.
I did the ZBounty yesterday, Tomb of the Primeval Kings with a pug warrior - discordway. When I joined him and his heroes, I saw he was W/Rt.. I was like.. "No.. can't.. this.. just can't be happening!"
Second after I had fixed my heroes' builds he just said "I think you know my build" o_O
I expected it, I feared it, I sensed it.. Yes, W/Rt spirit spammer.
So as a main profession Ritualist I let the Warrior do the spirit spamming, as that's what Warriors are made for, not Rituali.... wait what? O_O
It didn't really feel good when he claimed he had vanquished most of the areas with that build etc. etc.. But I let him do that just to see if he did good. And he did. Though anything works with discordway, there just wasn't any reason for me to start arguing "how main ritualists do it better" as the gap ain't that big (~10dmg or something, stated before in this thread) as enemies targeted the minions more than the spirits for some reason (no need for spawning power here for extra hp :\)
Random pugs don't matter, but when it comes to endgame-areas like FoW and UW, primary ritualist is really the best choice for splinter + spirits.
It didn't feel good, yes, I felt myself a little bit useless there..
Now I've actually seen how small the gap is for primary and non-primary spirit spammer.
For me it's self-evident to run spirit spamming on a primary Rit and let only ritualists use their "main powers" in a group. But if there isn't a ritualist available, why not let someone else do it, doesn't matter much?
Bleh. Well, just pointing out here that even a 2pip profession can use spirits with no problems.
FyrFytr998
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teknikaali
Well, just pointing out here that even a 2pip profession can use spirits with no problems.
For the Lulz!!
I fear the next round of QQ's will take aim at Spirit Spamming and focus on the uber combination of SoS and Siphon Spirit.
My primary is a Warrior and even I concede he has no business running a spammer build no matter how good Siphon Spirit is, lol.
I fear the next round of QQ's will take aim at Spirit Spamming and focus on the uber combination of SoS and Siphon Spirit.
My primary is a Warrior and even I concede he has no business running a spammer build no matter how good Siphon Spirit is, lol.
Nechrond
Ritualist solo-spiking probably benefits more from the headgear + rune bonuses than from a better primary attribute.
Spawning Power is good for Shelter.
...That's it. If your Ritualist doesn't solo-spike and doesn't use Shelter, you'd probably be better off with a different primary.
Spawning Power is good for Shelter.
...That's it. If your Ritualist doesn't solo-spike and doesn't use Shelter, you'd probably be better off with a different primary.
Daesu
Even though you can run still run a decent spirit spammer as a secondary rit, that still doesn't mean you are as good as a primary rit. Maybe it is just me, but I dont like to gimp myself. It is just not worth it playing the confirmed second fiddle to a primary rit at all times. If I like to spirit spam, I would simply play a primary rit, instead of a ERt.
I can also come up with a heroes build that is clearly just a little inferior to Sabway, then post a thread asking why people choose to use Sabway instead of my inferior build when the answer is obvious.
I can also come up with a heroes build that is clearly just a little inferior to Sabway, then post a thread asking why people choose to use Sabway instead of my inferior build when the answer is obvious.
MasterSasori
Voodoo Rage