Primary Ritualist, why?

Quote: Originally Posted by Apathetic Tom

You said nothing to prove that spirit spamming on a rit isn't stronger than anything else. I wasn't trying to prove anything. I concede it is stronger to run a Rit. primary for the most damage. I was just saying that non Rits should not dismiss running this build because of that fact. At 10 points each in Channeling and Communing, the spirits are plenty strong enough to lay a smack down. That's all.

At 12 in Channeling and 12 in Communing, a non-Rt primary will need to... mmm.. wait 2 seconds longer to bring down a mob in PvE, compared to Rt primary.

Of course, but then you also need to ask yourself why would you put up with those "2 seconds"? When you have players looking for the best option, being "2 seconds" slower WITH NO OTHER BONUSES just isn't as good as the best option.

The point was that other professions can play SoS nicely thus primary Rt makes little sense overall. Yes, you gain 2 sec per mob as SoS Rt, but try abusing ele skill ER as Rt - it's not going well right? And that's what I'm talking about. Some classes ANet seems to design as secondary classes, while some other classes are designed as "Exclusive". Remember CoP? Typical secondary class treatment of Mesmers. But can mesmer spam Seed of Life? Not really. The main problem is lack of consistency. If some skills should be restricted to some class.. let's say sunspear skills - then restrict all of them. Instead, we have "skills for all" and "skills just for privileged classes".

Every class has things that they do better than everyone else. The problem appears because the things certain classes excel at turn out to be completely worthless in PvE - and that's the result of A.Net's complete lack of understanding of the PvE side of their game.

Quote: Originally Posted by Genius Was Revrac

Another very awesome combo for the Ritualist is the Ebon Vanguard Sin and Asuran summon skills. With Spawning at 13 those pve summon skills can do some serious tanking. I have seen my 20th lvl ebon sin tank whole mobs for the duration of the spell. Running some enchantments make it easily spammable. I usually run SoS with Ebon Sin or a Asuran Summon. So you can put in a boon of creation or explosive growth or Spirits gift (great to reduce pressure) throw in some YMLAD and it makes Discordway simple. SoS/Boon of Creation kinda takes care of all energy i need. +I usually bring painful bond to trigger discord. Have fun
-Drama

Quote: Originally Posted by Dont Cause Drama

Running some enchantments make it easily spammable. I usually run SoS with Ebon Sin or a Asuran Summon. So you can put in a boon of creation or explosive growth or Spirits gift (great to reduce pressure) throw in some YMLAD and it makes Discordway simple. SoS/Boon of Creation kinda takes care of all energy i need. +I usually bring painful bond to trigger discord. Have fun
-Drama Why use boon of creation if you can just use siphon spirit?

Quote: Originally Posted by Arrogant Bastard

Why use boon of creation if you can just use siphon spirit? Maybe you need the life heal?

All things considered, SS>>>BoC.

SS is like Soul Reaping with no attribute points spending.

Quote: Originally Posted by MasterSasori

Maybe you need the life heal?

All things considered, SS>>>BoC.

SS is like Soul Reaping with no attribute points spending. Actually it's better, due to the 3s recharge, instead and no 15s cooldown like SR.

Just a side note here..

I did the ZBounty yesterday, Tomb of the Primeval Kings with a pug warrior - discordway. When I joined him and his heroes, I saw he was W/Rt.. I was like.. "No.. can't.. this.. just can't be happening!"
Second after I had fixed my heroes' builds he just said "I think you know my build" o_O
I expected it, I feared it, I sensed it.. Yes, W/Rt spirit spammer.

So as a main profession Ritualist I let the Warrior do the spirit spamming, as that's what Warriors are made for, not Rituali.... wait what? O_O
It didn't really feel good when he claimed he had vanquished most of the areas with that build etc. etc.. But I let him do that just to see if he did good. And he did. Though anything works with discordway, there just wasn't any reason for me to start arguing "how main ritualists do it better" as the gap ain't that big (~10dmg or something, stated before in this thread) as enemies targeted the minions more than the spirits for some reason (no need for spawning power here for extra hp :\)

Random pugs don't matter, but when it comes to endgame-areas like FoW and UW, primary ritualist is really the best choice for splinter + spirits.

It didn't feel good, yes, I felt myself a little bit useless there..
Now I've actually seen how small the gap is for primary and non-primary spirit spammer.
For me it's self-evident to run spirit spamming on a primary Rit and let only ritualists use their "main powers" in a group. But if there isn't a ritualist available, why not let someone else do it, doesn't matter much?

Bleh. Well, just pointing out here that even a 2pip profession can use spirits with no problems.

Quote: Originally Posted by Teknikaali

Quote: Originally Posted by Teknikaali

For me it's self-evident to run spirit spamming on a primary Rit and let only ritualists use their "main powers" in a group. But if there isn't a ritualist available, why not let someone else do it, doesn't matter much?

Bleh. Well, just pointing out here that even a 2pip profession can use spirits with no problems.
Because a War running a Spirit build looks incredibly silly. Course you see rangers and necroes do it all the time.

If you want the Rit to shine abuse the high spawning by using weapon spells such as Splinter and GDW.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Spirit%27s_Strength

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Explosive_Growth

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Boon_of_Creation

?

On a more serious note, Primary Ritualist actually has a lot going for it, more then a Primary Necro, Primary Mesmer, or Primary Dervish, thats for sure, not only does Spawning Power give us access to several actually really nice spells ( Spirits Strength is great, as is Boon, as is Explosive Growth, as are a few other spells from the Spawning Power line ) but it also boosts the health of Spirits which I've found does help a bit in PvP, its not amazing, but it does help.

I think something that a lot of people don't look at that the Rit also gets is how open the class is, it can really be paired with anything, and work really well, and if needbe, and your inventive enough, you can make your Rit fill almost any role possible, from damage taker ( Rit/Monk, Rit/R, 50-75% Block ), to massive burst ( Rit/Sin ) to Ranged Deeps, to Minion Master, to well, anything.

No other class I've played could do that, sure a Mesmer might be able to be a good Spammer, and might be decent ranged deeps if specced right, and may even be turned into a damage taker, but it couldn't become anything on a whim like the Ritualist can, which is I think the main thing that draws me towards the class, more then anything else really.

Ritualist solo-spiking probably benefits more from the headgear + rune bonuses than from a better primary attribute.
Spawning Power is good for Shelter.

...That's it. If your Ritualist doesn't solo-spike and doesn't use Shelter, you'd probably be better off with a different primary.

Even though you can run still run a decent spirit spammer as a secondary rit, that still doesn't mean you are as good as a primary rit. Maybe it is just me, but I dont like to gimp myself. It is just not worth it playing the confirmed second fiddle to a primary rit at all times. If I like to spirit spam, I would simply play a primary rit, instead of a ERt.

I can also come up with a heroes build that is clearly just a little inferior to Sabway, then post a thread asking why people choose to use Sabway instead of my inferior build when the answer is obvious.

Quote: Originally Posted by Nechrond

Ritualist solo-spiking probably benefits more from the headgear + rune bonuses than from a better primary attribute.
Spawning Power is good for Shelter.

...That's it. If your Ritualist doesn't solo-spike and doesn't use Shelter, you'd probably be better off with a different primary. Not to troll the thread, but usually for Nicholas farming I find that I prefer my ranger as a spirit spammer. Expertise, even at 7, lowers the cost of spirits to the the point where I can unload a whole bar without needing the spirit siphon until the end. Coupled with the armor bonuses, it makes for a pretty durable farmer.

Quote: Originally Posted by Voodoo Rage

Not to troll the thread, but usually for Nicholas farming I find that I prefer my ranger as a spirit spammer. Expertise, even at 7, lowers the cost of spirits to the the point where I can unload a whole bar without needing the spirit siphon until the end. Coupled with the armor bonuses, it makes for a pretty durable farmer. Damage>Armor if you play it right. A ritualist also has the ability to place painful bond more often, in the event that enemies are not grouped up exactly the way you want.

Quote: Originally Posted by AndroBubbles

Damage>Armor if you play it right. A ritualist also has the ability to place painful bond more often, in the event that enemies are not grouped up exactly the way you want. A 40/40 should place painful bond just as often as a rit.

Quote: Originally Posted by Voodoo Rage

Not to troll the thread, but usually for Nicholas farming I find that I prefer my ranger as a spirit spammer. Expertise, even at 7, lowers the cost of spirits to the the point where I can unload a whole bar without needing the spirit siphon until the end. Coupled with the armor bonuses, it makes for a pretty durable farmer. Most people farm in NM for Nicholas. For HM, Rits are clearly superior because their spirits are stronger (AoU, Spawning P., runes) in terms of both offense and defense.

Armor is not that important if you know how to spirit farm effectively. Energy is also not a big deal for a Rit during farming. If you really need energy, there is always spirit siphon.

Quote: Originally Posted by Daesu

Most people farm in NM for Nicholas. For HM, Rits are clearly superior because their spirits are stronger (AoU, Spawning P., runes) in terms of both offense and defense.

Armor is not that important if you know how to spirit farm effectively. Energy is also not a big deal for a Rit during farming. If you really need energy, there is always spirit siphon. True, I'm doing NM.