I tried some Vamp and Sundering weapons on the Master of Damage(Axe, Bow, Sword), either autoattacking or using a set amount of attack skills.
Every time Vampiric had a higher overall damage.
So why do people want Sundering while Vamp does more damage?
Why is Sundering considered 'perfect' when Vamp does more DPS overall.
DigitalFear
Covah
15^50
20/20
+30
looks good in peoples eyes. They say its perfect so they can sell it. Thats about it.
20/20
+30
looks good in peoples eyes. They say its perfect so they can sell it. Thats about it.
Diavna
Sunder = piercing armor/weakening armor
Vamp = DPS damage ability increased after sunder is done.
Both work well but Sunder isn't crap by itself, neither is Vamp. Try vamp after sunder see if it makes it better.
Vamp = DPS damage ability increased after sunder is done.
Both work well but Sunder isn't crap by itself, neither is Vamp. Try vamp after sunder see if it makes it better.
Morticia of Cyana
Quote:
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Originally Posted by DigitalFear
So why do people want Sundering while Vamp does more damage?
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Using vamp weapons mostly means switching weaponsets a lot, while you can use the same sundering weapon without switching because of health loss.
I prefer vamp, because it negates all defences. Life stealing is better then armor penetration imo.
GODh
Well, perfect just means that the mod cant get any better... a 20/20 sundering mod is perfect, a 20/19 is not.
A 5/-1 vampiric mod is perfect, a 4/-1 is not...
The quest is more: why is sundering more populair? Answer: because it has no conditions...
When used well a perfect vampiric mod does a lot more damage (life stealing) than a perfect sundering mod, but lots of players arent good enough to use a vamp mod well... and they are scared of the -1 health degeneration.
A 5/-1 vampiric mod is perfect, a 4/-1 is not...
The quest is more: why is sundering more populair? Answer: because it has no conditions...
When used well a perfect vampiric mod does a lot more damage (life stealing) than a perfect sundering mod, but lots of players arent good enough to use a vamp mod well... and they are scared of the -1 health degeneration.
Quaker
Oh gawd, here we go again...... This topic has already been debated to death, several times.
Bottom line - overall there is very little, if any, difference in total damage between Vamp and Sundering over the course of a battle. Those that say one does "a lot more damage" than the other, usually just haven't done any real in-game testing.
Use which ever floats your boat. Personally, I use Sundering (when it's a choice between just those two) because I'm too lazy/forgetful to swap out the vamp weapon. In either case, the majority of damage is done by skills added on top of the base weapon damage.
Bottom line - overall there is very little, if any, difference in total damage between Vamp and Sundering over the course of a battle. Those that say one does "a lot more damage" than the other, usually just haven't done any real in-game testing.
Use which ever floats your boat. Personally, I use Sundering (when it's a choice between just those two) because I'm too lazy/forgetful to swap out the vamp weapon. In either case, the majority of damage is done by skills added on top of the base weapon damage.
Gift3d
because people are blithering idiots, the gavel is down.
HawkofStorms
Vamp is generally considered superior from a mathematical perspective.
There is two reasons sundering is worth more... 1) Bigger numbers, 20 sounds better then 3, so the uneducated in this game just assume it is better 2) Rarity. This is the big difference. A perfect sundering mod, because there are bigger numbers, just drops less often then perfect vamp mods (or at least did, back when mods actually had value prior to raptor farming). Thus they are more expensive. And thus in many people's eyes "better."
There is two reasons sundering is worth more... 1) Bigger numbers, 20 sounds better then 3, so the uneducated in this game just assume it is better 2) Rarity. This is the big difference. A perfect sundering mod, because there are bigger numbers, just drops less often then perfect vamp mods (or at least did, back when mods actually had value prior to raptor farming). Thus they are more expensive. And thus in many people's eyes "better."
T1Cybernetic
I use zealous and furious mostly 
but when the need arises vamp is the mod i prefer...
but when the need arises vamp is the mod i prefer...
Warvic
I remember trying to sell perfect weapons (vamp) and some dude said I was trying to scam him because it wasn't sundering. I laughed so hard. It's funny!
Vamp is superior to sundering. sundering only affects RAW damage. so a sword has a 20% chance to do 21-25 instead of 17-21. Woohoo! (Atleast that what I heard.) So on daggers,swords its crap, on a scythe,hammer it's more usefull.
In pve I can understand why people want sundering tho. Pve is easy anyway, so why swap weapons all the time when you can be lazy.
Vamp is superior to sundering. sundering only affects RAW damage. so a sword has a 20% chance to do 21-25 instead of 17-21. Woohoo! (Atleast that what I heard.) So on daggers,swords its crap, on a scythe,hammer it's more usefull.
In pve I can understand why people want sundering tho. Pve is easy anyway, so why swap weapons all the time when you can be lazy.
FengShuiDove
1. Community has not widely acknowledged the empirical fact that Vampiric provides more DPS than Sundering.
2. Community at large faers the -1 health degeneration and is too stupid to bring a weapon swap and use it properly.
3. Convention. Tying back to 1, this is the way it's been done, so it will continue to be done as such.
Maybe I'm not understanding what you're saying right, but Sundering acts only on hits that occur while the Sunder-modded weapon are attached. It doesn't leave effects like weakened armor that benefit when switching to Vampiric. You may not have meant this at all, so I apologize in advance if I'm reading your post wrong. Either way, this has been debated endlessly, and Vampiric has been proven to be the highest damage output mod.
2. Community at large faers the -1 health degeneration and is too stupid to bring a weapon swap and use it properly.
3. Convention. Tying back to 1, this is the way it's been done, so it will continue to be done as such.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Diavna
Sunder = piercing armor/weakening armor
Vamp = DPS damage ability increased after sunder is done. Both work well but Sunder isn't crap by itself, neither is Vamp. Try vamp after sunder see if it makes it better. |
Kitor
Quote:
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Originally Posted by FengShuiDove
Maybe I'm not understanding what you're saying right, but Sundering acts only on hits that occur while the Sunder-modded weapon are attached. It doesn't leave effects like weakened armor that benefit when switching to Vampiric. You may not have meant this at all, so I apologize in advance if I'm reading your post wrong. Either way, this has been debated endlessly, and Vampiric has been proven to be the highest damage output mod. |
Sundering doesn't leave an effect, it has a chance to ignore a portion of armor while wielding a sundering weapon.
As per the question asked, I'd say it's just general ignorance. Like has been said, the -1 tends to turn people off, and sundering has bigger numbers.
Morticia of Cyana
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Originally Posted by Kitor
and sundering has bigger numbers.
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Skyy High
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Diavna
Sunder = piercing armor/weakening armor
Vamp = DPS damage ability increased after sunder is done. Both work well but Sunder isn't crap by itself, neither is Vamp. Try vamp after sunder see if it makes it better. |
WarcryOfTruth
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Morticia of Cyana
Sundering might have bigger numbers, but vamp has more numbers.
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sonofthort
If you are ready to begin your studies in the art of weapon swapping, make sure you bring an ebon weapon aswell, most warriors will have 20 less armor vs elemental, and also -3 damage reduction vs elemental (because most warriors equip superior absorption). Ebon vs the typical warrior will do more damage than vamp.
Enar.
Doesn't have to be ebon. it can be any elemental damage.
I'm using Cold/Zealous/Vampiric for all weapons + Sundering for Axe only.
Sundering on bows is quite dumb i find.
But whats more dumb, its that if you sell weapon that doesn't have 20/20 ,because you value zealous more then they ask to lower price which is like lol...
I'm using Cold/Zealous/Vampiric for all weapons + Sundering for Axe only.
Sundering on bows is quite dumb i find.
But whats more dumb, its that if you sell weapon that doesn't have 20/20 ,because you value zealous more then they ask to lower price which is like lol...
Kwith
My outlook is who cares?
It works better for me when the community thinks a certain mod is better than others. It allows me to get the mods I want at prices that aren't ridiculously inflated.
People put so much stock into sundering that they ignore the rest and practically give them away. Which allows for people who like to think outside the community standard's box to reap the benefits.
My advice, let the people do as they please, it just means less money spent for you on mods.
It works better for me when the community thinks a certain mod is better than others. It allows me to get the mods I want at prices that aren't ridiculously inflated.
People put so much stock into sundering that they ignore the rest and practically give them away. Which allows for people who like to think outside the community standard's box to reap the benefits.
My advice, let the people do as they please, it just means less money spent for you on mods.
Chthon
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Originally Posted by Gift3d
because people are blithering idiots, the gavel is down.
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(12 characters)
mathiastemplar
Quote:
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Originally Posted by GODh
Well, perfect just means that the mod cant get any better... a 20/20 sundering mod is perfect, a 20/19 is not.
A 5/-1 vampiric mod is perfect, a 4/-1 is not... The quest is more: why is sundering more populair? Answer: because it has no conditions... When used well a perfect vampiric mod does a lot more damage (life stealing) than a perfect sundering mod, but lots of players arent good enough to use a vamp mod well... and they are scared of the -1 health degeneration. |
Couldn't be described better^_^
_Nihilist_
I have to agree with Gift3ed and Chthon.
Anyone else remember when max Sundering was 10/10 instead of 20/20? Even after they buffed it, Vampiric is still better, but people who only want 1 weapon and don't want to swap would rather pay more for a Sundering because there is "no drawback" (wtfever, gtfo), lol!
Anyone else remember when max Sundering was 10/10 instead of 20/20? Even after they buffed it, Vampiric is still better, but people who only want 1 weapon and don't want to swap would rather pay more for a Sundering because there is "no drawback" (wtfever, gtfo), lol!
stanzhao
even when reading this, the -1 scared me so much i had to turn my screen around.
the only reason someone might say 'wts a perfect fellblade' and you see its sundering is because that is the norm pve sword mod. pvpers dont hang around looking for perfect swords. they may buy the skin, but add their own mods etc after.
you dont need dps over time in pve
the only reason someone might say 'wts a perfect fellblade' and you see its sundering is because that is the norm pve sword mod. pvpers dont hang around looking for perfect swords. they may buy the skin, but add their own mods etc after.
you dont need dps over time in pve
Winterclaw
Vampiric = more risk (degen) more gain.
Sundering = lesser risk (no degen) lesser gain.
Zealous = for people who want to stay out of the V-S debate.
Sundering = lesser risk (no degen) lesser gain.
Zealous = for people who want to stay out of the V-S debate.
paddymew
Hammers and Scythes deal more damage that Swords and Axes, and people use both. A vampiric mod is like using a two-handed weapon instead of a weapon and a shield.
reaper with no name
A) People don't do the math to discover that a vampiric mod does more damage
B) People are too dumb to realize that you actually gain far more health than you lose with a vampiric mod when it is used properly
C) People are too cheap/lazy to employ weapon swapping, which is a prerequisite for B
B) People are too dumb to realize that you actually gain far more health than you lose with a vampiric mod when it is used properly
C) People are too cheap/lazy to employ weapon swapping, which is a prerequisite for B
imnotyourmother
Answer... Scale Fin Soup. there use the vamp with NO degen... nuff said
Astral_Nomad
Quote:
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Originally Posted by DigitalFear
I tried some Vamp and Sundering weapons on the Master of Damage(Axe, Bow, Sword), either autoattacking or using a set amount of attack skills.
Every time Vampiric had a higher overall damage. So why do people want Sundering while Vamp does more damage? |
x sithis x
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Originally Posted by Kitor
sundering has bigger numbers.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Morticia of Cyana
Sundering might have bigger numbers, but vamp has more numbers.
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lets say u do ~25 dmg sundering
lets say you do ~23 dmg vamp ... add the -3 from vamp sword its more overall lol
Kitor
Quote:
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Originally Posted by x sithis x
lets say u do ~25 dmg sundering
lets say you do ~23 dmg vamp ... add the -3 from vamp sword its more overall lol |
As per the example, a sundering sword would theoretically trigger once every five attacks. If your target is a monk with 60 AR, this would cause it to add 12 damage once in 5 attacks. A Vamp sword would be guaranteed to have 3 added every single attack, causing +15 life stealing. Keeping in mind the one sundering mod might not trigger, the vamp is doing more damage more often.
So saying 25 damage per attack like you said...
25x5 is 125, + 12 is 137
25x5 is 125 + 15 is 140
So Vamp would be doing more damage, but there's a chance that Sundering wouldn't even happen.
And honestly, chances are it wouldn't trigger once every five attacks in the average situation Probly more like somewhere between 6 and 10. Vamp is way more reliable, and more damage overall.
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Originally Posted by Astral_Nomad
ummm.. cause 15^50 is a buff without risking your own health as a consequence.. one thing you have to look out for when using vamp weaps.. its the health -1 degen issue that gets me.. lol.. i only use it if i have to do like dunes of despair to get my boys across the chasm.
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And, try weapon switching. The life steal causes more healing than the degen does to your health, and out of battle, just switch weapons.
maxxfury
I used sundering gear on heroes, cos im just too lazy, and when i use them its rare and i dont want to have to pay too much attention to them 
And cos wow! 20/20 is more than 5/-1? isnt it?
And cos wow! 20/20 is more than 5/-1? isnt it?
Morticia of Cyana
Quote:
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Originally Posted by maxxfury
I used sundering gear on heroes, cos im just too lazy
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2 things might happen then:
1. Heroes die because of -1 degen.
2. The monks spend all their expensive healing spells to outheal the -1 degen. (like they do with minions)
byteme!
Most people don't play video games with a calculator in their hands. Apparently some of you do. Most people don't take video games that damn seriously. Apparently some of you do. Most people could care less if Vamp gives them +2 damage more per hit over Sundering. If you can visually notice the difference kudos to you because I'm sure that .001th of a second you saved per foe/mob was well worth it. This bashing of people based on the mods they choose to use is a little ignorant and some what immature.
Sundering has no downside. Requires no conditions. Is widely accepted as the "jack of all trades" mod. "Mathematically" vamp is better hands down. No argument what so ever. The real question is who the hell cares or finds the time to? The difference is so slight and minute it's not even worth the trouble of a debate.
Sundering has no downside. Requires no conditions. Is widely accepted as the "jack of all trades" mod. "Mathematically" vamp is better hands down. No argument what so ever. The real question is who the hell cares or finds the time to? The difference is so slight and minute it's not even worth the trouble of a debate.
Quaker
Quote:
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Originally Posted by byteme!
Most people don't play video games with a calculator in their hands. Apparently some of you do. Most people don't take video games that damn seriously. Apparently some of you do. Most people could care less if Vamp gives them +2 damage more per hit over Sundering. If you can visually notice the difference kudos to you because I'm sure that .001th of a second you saved per foe/mob was well worth it. This bashing of people based on the mods they choose to use is a little ignorant and some what immature.
Sundering has no downside. Requires no conditions. Is widely accepted as the "jack of all trades" mod. "Mathematically" vamp is better hands down. No argument what so ever. The real question is who the hell cares or finds the time to? The difference is so slight and minute it's not even worth the trouble of a debate. |
I'd like to add to this, that most of the people who argue about the "mathematics" of it, don't even understand the basics of how sundering works. They seem to think that sundering does 20% more damage, when in reality it causes a 20% reduction in the foes armor - which can result in more (or less) than a 20% increase in damage, depending upon the AL of the target.
The last time this issue came up I did tests where I attacked a target 20 times in a row with Vamp and Sundering and found no significant difference in the total damage done. The Vamp fanboys told me that 20 hits wasn't enough, statistically, and that if I did 200 hits I'd see that Vamp was better.
Well, hello-o!! If it takes 200 hits to see a difference, it aint much of a difference!
Anyway, kudos to Byteme for trying to put things in perspective.
Faure
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Originally Posted by Enar.
Doesn't have to be ebon. it can be any elemental damage.
I'm using Cold/Zealous/Vampiric for all weapons + Sundering for Axe only. Sundering on bows is quite dumb i find. But whats more dumb, its that if you sell weapon that doesn't have 20/20 ,because you value zealous more then they ask to lower price which is like lol... |
Then again, I agree with 'byteme!' so I couldn't really care. I always use furious because I want my adrenal skills charged up asap.
SirNukes
I agree with the people who blame laziness. Why bother switching weapons constantly for only an extra 1-2 dps in casual play?
"Like a Rolling Stone"
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Originally Posted by Faure
But there's no shieldmod vs earth dmg, and there is against the others. So you might end up attacking someone with +10 armor against your element, whereas earth never will have a counter.
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