Discordway?

For AP. No what i meant is that do we have to call out every single skill we use or just the first one ? Just call out a skill, and the heroes will lock onto that target.

Be that as it may, PvX has serious problems. The discordway build PvX reports as "great" is a crap variant of a mediocre build. The vast majority of "good" and "great" builds on PvX are either crap variants of decent builds or crap builds. The AP-MoP necro build was almost ranked as unviable when Moloch first posted it and he had to ask people who weren't idiots to go rate it just to save it. In short, your vetting system sucks. If you have a sincere interest in overhauling the vetting system, PM me, and I'll offer my ideas on improving it; otherwise, simply consider this an expression of my opinion about your vetting system. I agree that the vetting system isn't entirely fair although disagree with your reasoning. The fact that you can grab 5 friends and get something rated is more of a concerning issue. In the instance you mention, Moloch probably had the same issues that any new user has on any site, sadly who posted the build is on PvX somewhat reflects in the ratings. This is not necessarily a problem with the site itself but more of internet communities in general, those who have gained reputation from regular users are generally more trusted. Having said that, I would be interested in your ideas to improve it.

The main problem we have is that pretty much every user has their own take on discordway and sabway and there isn't really a definitive best build. Different things can be better depending on what you play, where you play and your style of play. I've never worked out how we choose which variant to post. Also remember your opinion may not necessarily correlate with that of the majority of users.

I also don't understand why people who think all the builds there are terrible don't post their own or don't suggest improvements on talk pages. If a lot of people actually have issues they should bring it up on the talk page so that a consensus is reached to get the builds changed.

For me, I think of PvX as housing two specific types of builds (as far as PvE is concerned anyway): first type is collection of theorycrafts which you should use to base your own builds on to suit your play style and situation. Put another way, it should really be an extension of a player's natural instinct to look for synergies between skills. And, although I'm not the hugest fan of the build, Discordway fits under this category. The builds presented on PvX are more like suggestions than definitive builds where you need to copy every skill and piece of equipment exactly. The caller, for example, may not be optimum for specific professions or situations but it does give a reasonably good, universal suggestion for players who are struggling to think of their own build. We can't viably list all the different options for the caller, even just listing 'optimum' caller builds is a very subjective affair.

The second type gives puggable elite areas/dungeons standard builds and usage, so people don't spend umpteen years forming groups. Although not strictly the optimum builds (yes we already know adding an extra terra to FoW makes it much faster, for example), they have been optimised for pug groups.

Like I said, I'm personally not the greatest fan of Discordway (tying up so many attribute points in Death magic and Soul reaping and playing such a linear main player build aren't really things that appeal to me) but I still recognise that it is a strong build. A build which is capable of easily killing anything anywhere when played by anyone is not only great but incredibly overpowered.

...snip... Thats about the best summing up of pvx i think ive seen, other than the need for a thick skin with the regular flamings

Seems a lot of the crappy ratings by idiots are been removed too /gj

Oh and discoway is easy cheesy lazy mode, get job done with a minimum of effort without a need to really spec for an area. plug 'n' play baby

Tho smashing shit up side the head with my heroes buffing me up is better

~Jayson

I agree. I'm just quoting this to point out that you've reversed your prior position. And here I'd given up on your capacity to learn... I was wrong. I never actually stated that discordway was good with a physical. That huge 30+ thread was in the necromancer forum for a reason. Also, if you dig around in the heroes forum, there's another thread huge-ass thread where I argued the exact same point.

So no, I haven't learned anything ;o