Ursan Relating to Shadow Form and 600/Smiting

Guildwars has became a 1 or 2 man party game...the rest of the group u fill with heros (which some trust more than guildies)........so for all those purests wanting an 8 man balanced game...its never gonna happen now...the games got boring people have left etc etc....they may aswell leave sF/600 and bring back ursan to rekindle any easy fun that the game had (i never done any ursan DoA runs)....if u wanna make the game harder thats easy..use crappy builds in an 8 man team....also,i got all the regular titles...now i need to farm cash/golds for the last 4...but thats not alright?

THis would very much please me as well.

Arena net added henchman to pvp because "some people can't find a team". So why not allow 7 hero parties?

Our guild/alliance occasionally does. Most of the time for someone to get that statue in the HoM. Half of the team would be fully decked with armor and skills, so the other half can bring what they want and still succeed the mission.

So my alliance doesn't exist? I can't say it is my guild, but my guild isn't a guild. My alliance is the guild. Gives us a much larger pool of people and allows for things to happen faster/easier at times. I can remember doing the Deep without the 'standard' team most people would use. We had 2 Rits, 3 Monks, 3 Necros, 1 Elem, 1 Paragon, 1 Warrior, and 1 Ranger. No Shadow Form, no Ursan, no Cryway (though we did have Cry on the Elem), no Discord, and only the 2 Rits brought spirits, and they didn't bring the same ones of course.

But this suggestion wasn't made about doing elite areas with PUGs, or even guild/alliance/friends. This suggestion was made about farming, which outside of a narrow range of places does not include completing an entire area.

Oh, class and reputation never figures into the invites.

There are people in my alliance that are such an epitome of suckiness, possessive of a complete inability to follow simple directions, so completely ignorant of good play habits, that the 11 or so halfway decent players have basically resorted to invite-only basis PM/Vent organized events... but we never discriminate based on class or title.

keyword better. aka, faster and more successful.

Agreed. Almost every good guild I've been in wants to do high end with farming builds. Then there are those that don't, but are so ridiculously casual and slow (ex. taking 15min coffee breaks and stopping to watching a football game WTF?!) Truly good guilds that actually try to play FOR SPEED but without using a speed clear farm build are probably like 1% of the entire guild population. And within those good guilds the truly active ones (guilds that have more than 4 people active for more than a few specific hours per day...for example) are like another 1% of the 1%. It already took me forever to find my current decent guild, and its only one of those small ones that's inactive for most of the day.

As for my friendlist, for every one I add two goes away....

This is why I rather have "overpowered" skills, playing crazy builds with pugs is better than playing with no one at all whenever there's not enough guildies to do the areas I want. (Sorry, vanquishing the entire game with my 10th character with AI bots and solo farming is not an alternative to me) There's one thing that pugs gives that the best guild can't replace...24/7 access.

Unless they enables 7 heroes with PvE skills (yeah...right), I'll take stuff like Ursan and Shadow Form, tyvm.

Yes pls anet nerf all pve and pvp too so gw bye bye

I'm sooo glad I don't play this shamble of a game anymore. The game is dead for all of you that don't know already, Ursan was a fun way to clear everything without needing to grab an alliance group, because we all know PUGs are not the best experiences(Unless running ursan). I dont understand the reasoning behind people saying ursan was worse than SF, as far as I can see it was much better in terms of the economy and player happiness. All classes can run Ursan and I didn't have to hear constant bitching about my sin. Why not make the game fun again huh? NOT A SINGLE PERSON that is in anyway competent wants to waste 2+ hours in UW and get nothing out of it. Put ursan back in, if people continue to complain, then they should really just stop playing.

That's why I prefer to waste 2+ hours in the DoA. At least the drops there are inscribable.

Believe it or not some people play the game because they find it fun not to get phat loot and show off their epeens.


Ursan had good and bad effects. You could actually get groups but at the same time ursan was EVERYWHERE. You literally couldn't find a pug for anything without having ursans in it. And that was why it was worse than sf because it was equally effective everywhere and with any team composition so there was absolutely no reason to run anything else. At least sf is really only used for speed clears and elite areas. Ursan will never go back to what it was because no one in their right mind would fix a mistake then go back and intentionally break something that they already fixed.

And if you want to get your mesmer, dervish or assassin into an elite area be creative and come up with an effective build for the area to prove that you're useful. And just look for an active guild that does elite areas without running speed clear or meta builds they do exist.

The "some" people that do things solely for fun are a very small minority. Same thing with the very active guilds that do elite areas without farming builds. People who are in one talk as if their type of guilds are everywhere, when in reality its possible for one to search for half a year and still won't encounter a single one of those guilds.

I got a guild like that. Nearly 3 years ago.

I'm still in it too, and I really really do feel for people who aren't fortunate enough to have one like it, as repeated over and over, it's hard to find a good one.
Regardless of the fact that I have a great guild, guess what? They're in the US, I'm in Australia, so of course our timezones tend to clash. Nothing's perfect eh? Because of that, and a busy family life, I tend to do most things alone, including insane attempts at elite areas with outlandish builds and evil intent. Surprisingly, a lot of them work ok, and make me a bit of dough. Unfortunately, there are gimmick builds in there too. Sorry to the purists, but I liked Ursan, and I like SF. I'd prefer to see Ursan reverted, SF left alone, and all the other farming methods etc also, just left alone.

So many think that the instant solution to not being able to pick up a group is to nerf this farm, nerf that farm, nerf this team, nerf that team, if you nerf it, they will come....

No they won't. No I won't. If they aren't already there looking for the teams that the purists would like to see, they aren't likely to, regardless of how anything gets nerfed. Just like in every other game ever invented with sliding scale skill sets, we'll find another way, and we'll find it fast.

There are countless different(w/e)way's, both in use, no longer used due to nerfs, not yet discovered, and for anyone to think for even a second that nerfing the current creams of the crop will inject fresh new life into the game, or promote "Fair and Just" party play for all the family...errrr...well, no. Sorry to disappoint, but pipe dreams are just that.

Honestly, I can't wait to see how long it takes for them to nerf all the farms, because as it stands, I have 8 toons who can farm atm, and if sf and 600 get nerfed, that leaves many many options, and hell, there's hundreds more I don't do..

To me, farming and gimmick builds are just as much fun as every other aspect, and envy of other ppls epeen doesn't even enter the equation of why I love GW.

You know...

I always hated Ursans for the damage it to the game, but at least people could play together. Then it got nerfed, and forgotten. I actually joined the crowd who celebrated the nerf...hoping that finally the bear madness is over.

Now, when SF came along, the destruction done to people's perception of completion times has been unimaginable! With super-fast clear times being done both HM dungeons and speed clears, I can comprehend the amount of frustration people will feel completing the same said things without SF. The game has become stagnant to a point where long mission/dungeon completion times are nearly unacceptable.

SF is totally unfair skill but it is well in line with people's perception of the game. If EOTN was new, I wouldn't mind playing 2 hrs for Rragar HM completion without SF. But since it is 2+ years old, even a 2hr run now seems like eternity and not worthy at all. SF can do it in under 15 min flat! There is nothing left to enjoy in the dungeon...there is no element of surprise...we know the spawn locations and how to deal accordingly. Had the monsters been random with random skills, atleast every run would have been unique. bad GW design is actually to blame on top of ridiculous skill design like SF. SF simply exploits the constant designs implemented to fullest and satisfies the crowd who are in for fast-fat-cash and not enjoyment from gameplay.

I actually prefer the new ursan. It still good but not overpowered. The fact that we have overpowered crap in game should not justify overpowering the other. I do not mind doing UW in 4 hours.

This makes me think of Left4dead. In that game there are like four or five or so campaigns, each of which takes about an hour or so to complete. So that's five hours of game time? No, much more, since randomly (well, sort of randomly) spawning enemies gives a lot of replayability, while scripted encounters/locked gates/progress blocks (get ready to fight the horde...) still gives a sense of consistency. I imagine that a similar model (minus the constant spawn of new enemy waves even if you are not moving forward) could be used to great success in a game like Guild Wars.

When I look at alliance activity I'd say with a little planning much is possible.
People from the alliance played UW balanced last weekend with 'randomway' and succeeded with 6 players remaining @ Dhuum (the other two went to bed before that).
I know several players are often willing to play Deep or Urgoz's. The only problem-area would be DoA, the alliance lacks good knowledge of the area.

However, things are very much at players own choice.
When I was far more active than now I just organised stuff or tagged along with others for fun. People know me and will contact me when they like to do something. I even get questions once I stop playing a little while, even from outside the guild/alliance.
Also you need to understand that failure is very possible. You won't play with 'pro' players all the time, being in a team with little knowledge is very possible. Meaning you will learn by failure, not by winning.

If this is what you consider fun there are guilds and alliances that still play this way. Find them and get to know the players for a while. See what you can offer the alliance, not what they can offer you.

what if instead of nerfing Shadowform
to add more that can counter shadowform?
put more things in the eltie areas that can screw permas so it will be an unused skill like ursan is now xD and shadow shroud and signet of midnight Lawl. what if its not the skill thats overpowered but the areas used to farm them in underpowered?

Fixing two wrongs doesn't make a right.

Anet said a long time ago something along these lines. There fine with the way things are, unless they feel it's a problem. Then they will change it.

SF Perma / Ursan did something, depend on a simple gimick to do just "walk through" most of guildwars. They feel any method like this should not work, and when it comes up and becomes what they feel is a problem, they will remove.

There are such guilds even many of them but then people complain about speed and leave....

Anet did. Skeletons of Dhuum were added in UW along with Dhuum himself, but speedclears with SF are still viable. Even more, those Skeletons also made it harder for a 'balanced' group. Added pressure at 4 Horsemen for example.

Anet added Dying Nightmares in UW because 55 was deemed a problem there in the past. SF is viable in all Elite Missions and most dungeons. Do you want Anet to tamper with all those areas too only to counter one (1) skill?

/notsigned

Ursan was OP. Apparently too OP for ANet's OP meter. Enjoy the memories made (lul?) while it was still around.

I would get tired of a game that only gave me a handful of skills to choose from, and with godmode teams like Ursan dominating, that's pretty much what the game turns into.

I'd tend to agree more along these points.

To all those saying it was overpowered, of course it probably was. So is a single profession god-mode that for some odd reason Anet has not bothered to address fully/properly (way to change areas instead of the skill). lol. And also, those saying Ursan was making you play the game a certain way...um you could look at SF the same way.

So many people complaining about SF. Never did a speed run in UW, but i tryed to do it with pugs, of course I did it only once and got tired. Why? Well cause even when I did it they let me with the skeletons on my head... SF is far from being a god mod. For those who think it's a god mode well then i sugest you to try to tank in foundry without any bonds on u, let's see how you are doing (nm, no need for hm). If SF is how people say "a god mode" then you will not die there, if it's like I say "far from being a god mode" you will die.
The sin is not the only class that can perma. There is one more class that can maintain SF (only one little condition here).

They want to nerf SF,600/smite... Well probably they think this is the easy solutions. There is another easy solution (add some monsters only skills that remove all enchants (somehow similar to topk regarding rangers) ). You don't even need to add new monsters.

The funny part is that all the hard stuff I did were done with my sin. I have ele,monk (i'm a not so good 600 cause I fail in foundry, and i know why i fail, i just don't have now time to fix the problem),paragon,rit too (ranger is working on survivor so it will not count, warrior is working on legendary defender of ascalon so it will not count). From what I saw almost all of the classes have at least one skill that is way to overpowered.

Someone said about er ele. ER ele can't protect himself from skills that remove enchants.

Read some time ago on this forum someone saying that if u want to do damage in hm go melee way. Well i wish him luck with areas with 50% chance to miss or blind spam and melee way.

They and u are talking about unbalanced skills. Well if we talk about unbalanced skills why not talk about unbalanced areas.
Let's talk about unbalanced "highend areas": veil vs foundry. Veil can be done by noobs, they need dp removal and maybe ress scrolls. Foundry, u need a good team to do it, noobs will destroy everything here.

I bet after they will nerf SF, 600/smite and maybe other skills you will see people complaining about the fact that they can't do gloom in hm (imbagon has major problems to use sy in hm, he miss hits way to much), foundry in hm...

They should decide. Add mobs to stop sc or change the skills. If they do both they have a major problem with the direction in witch they are going. Adding skele in uw to stop sc and then the decision to change sf showed already that they have major problems with the direction in witch they are going.

600/smite/famine team... Smite... can be a total noob. Famine... what's so hard in keeping qz always on?!? The other 2 skills are way to easy to keep on. 600... well he has a hardest job cause he has to recast 2-4 skills on himself (still under what another class farmer build have to do), in foundry well he needs to cast 2 more skills on mobs (only here he is at the same level with the other class farmer build (i'm not talking about the sin))

Ursan.. I don't care about ursan... I don't like it... If you ask me ursan is unbalance like the idea of monks having roj (monk is support class not damage dealing class, the idea of monks having skills doing damage is wrong)...

As much as you want you can't do a balanced game... So there will always be unbalanced skills. And no, GW it's far from being all about SF, 600/smite. And people started to use those builds cause pugs party are bad and have a high rate in failing, this is why i made the sin, cause i got tired of failers. To do parties with guild/alliance you need to have them active, not all of them are active. How many guilds can say they have 8 people on able to do a foundry/gloom hm at any hour without using a perma or 600/smite?

The relation between Ursan; SF & 600/smite is that like the first; the other two will shortly also get nerfed. ^^

There are 3 counter in the UW for perma.

1) Skeleton of dhuum, they mostly come in group of 1, any assassin can solo one if prepared the terra can solo more, and an a/me can solo any quantity with a wall.
2) charged blackness thanks to cons they can be outrun easy, when they cannot be outrun because they would be in the way for some quest the terra assassin can kill them easly
3) signet of humility, 2 foe in the entire UW have it. and normally they would be dead before they can even use it.

well, that and the traps, you just have to not step on it and if it happen you will not die anyway.

Hardly easy to change the ever mobs on the game.
Plus it will do the same thing of nerfing 600, so why?

None are on the level of SF.

There is very few parts of the game where this is a issue, sure you will lose sometime enchantment, but as long it's not ether renew (cover, kill / stay away from the few mobs who have multiple remove) you will be fine.
Also if one party member lose prot bond, it can be recasted or if under heavy fire still kept alive with just infuse.

Is for that reason people take condition removal hex removal etc.

DoA is just a bad designed area, but you have to remember the distinction between hard area and bad designed.

hex can be removed, and the miss rate can be someone mitigated with a high adrenaline gain build. (at least until the team killed enough mob to make it manageable)

Don't see why is wrong changing both

Citing one area that counters SF is not a valid argument. Go look on pvx, and look at how many areas that SF can farm. Then, look at how many dungeons it can solo/dual. Finally, look at all of the team builds that revolve around sins and compare ratio of SF to non-sf builds.

When you reach the conclusion that one skill complete most of the game, how can you not call it god mode? There is no other skill in the game that has the same mitigation SF enjoys, so why would you think that this skill should exist in its current state?

OT: I don't want to see ursan come back ever again until essence of celerity's recharge claused is removed and ursan rage looses the kd. The amount of shutdown an unorganized group can produce with cons is ridiculous.

@lishi

"Developer Update - August 2009 PvE and PvP Skill Balances

Selfless Spirit: reduced recharge to 15 seconds; decreased Energy reduction to 3. Functionality changed to: "For 15..20 seconds, spells you cast that target another ally cost 3 less Energy.""

"Developer Update – September 2009 PvE and PvP Skill Balances

Selfless Spirit: increased recharge to 45 seconds."

Does this looks like they have an idea about what they want to do with this skill? First they reduced the cooldown to 15s then they increased it to 45s... (They fixed the bots and the leeching problems in jade quarry? Don't think so. I say jade quarry cause fort is unbalanced (even jade quarry it's unbalanced, but it's way better then fort). And don't say what bots cause when I see the same person getting stuck in me over and over when I stay in a location when he could had avoid me easily then it's a bot. And why not change the effect of leeching vote? Why not autokick a player declared as a leecher from that map? I don't see easy ways to get the rank you need to keep this skill always on, and if you can't do it the ele will always be a better healer or protector then you (the entire idea is not to use an elite skill from other class to keep this skill always on).)

I wanted to give another good argument regarding my afirmation that they have a major problem with the direction in witch they are going.

@The Drunkard probably cause SF is the easy way, but it's not the only way. Maybe SF is faster, or maybe cause people found a way have problems finding others (I said once that every thing discovered makes other things in the same area harder to discover).

I say just try not to tamper too much with this whole skill-problem anyway. Guildwars has been out for 4+ years, its lasted this long. GW2 will come out soon and a lot of people (my guess) is that they will head over to GW2 and stop playing GW. Im sure people will still play Guildwars but after 4 years they have probably seen enough of it, it will never be as good as it was. I do think some change should be made, shadowform is like an easy button. I have to admit i use it for soosc sometimes and used to do uwsc before the dhuum nerf. I like shadowform, only because its a solo-farming tool. I don't have to assemble an alliance of team-mates or guildes to farm an elite area to play the game. This is the part of shadowform that i like; you can use it solo and it encourages pug's. Like for any dungeon speedclear, just learn your part and you can pug. Thats the fun about MMORPG's right? If too much work is involved to get a balanced team to do a 70 min HM run of Boogroots (dont know if its a good or bad time) then the game loses its replay and fun value. Shadowform saves guildwars because of its convenience to pick-up and play with people. What it fails at is that its basically a god-mode. With this god-mode people make millions farming ectos and shards and whatever and have bots do this 24/7 because its easy to program; hit skills 1-2-3 wait 24 sec repeat... I do like shadowform on aspects of fun and relative easiness, but it sure kills the economy and distrupts grind on so many levels. 600/smite, 55, other builds are not really an issue to me. I dont even know why anet is really thinking about hampering with these. Guildwars is about to be a game with fun creative builds to use. Now immediately i think of gimmick builds like speedclears and all that but without the innovation of the 55 monk or 130 dervish, you have to admit, guildwars would not be as fun as it is. People live to just have fun playing wacky and inntuitive in games like these. killing this will just make pug's much more harder to come by, reduce fun/playabality, aim guildwars more at the hardcore players who are used to playing the game at a higher/less fun difficulty level, and will just imo really hurt the game.