What for is tanking useful?
By that, I don't mean usefulness of tanking in some high-end areas (and extraordinary situations), I mean usefulness in general PvE areas; missions, quests, and such.
Example: I go Dunes of Despair (ZM HM), and see advertisements such as "GLF tank...". I got curious. So I ask what would that tank do. The answer was that he would 'distract the generals'.
Now, from what I see the mission consists of killing few monsters along the way, then killing wurms (obviously tank won't be killing those because they are on the cliff), then killing some more wurms after Ghostly is set in place, along with other monsters. And then - the entire group needs to use few minutes of spare time to rush into generals, spike-kill them so to speak, and rush back to help monk guarding the Ghostly.
So those who play in groups with tanks, or play tanks, how does it look from 1st perspective?
I'd like to understand tanking
The Josip
Xenomortis
Tanking is a role for idiots who don't realise a physical is put to better use killing stuff. It allows groups to play the easy game of just nuking shit and makes the monk's job easier.
It isn't efficient though.
It isn't efficient though.
Gift3d
bout time this dead horse got the living shit beaten out of him again.
there's a few areas where 'tanking' exists. underworld, doa, maybe fow.
in all other areas and general pve, tanking is counterproductive, doesn't work, and is just plain stupid.
now that you have the facts, there's only one step left to your goal, which is understanding it. as you may or may not know, that step's always the most difficult, exponentially. godspeed, young jedi.
there's a few areas where 'tanking' exists. underworld, doa, maybe fow.
in all other areas and general pve, tanking is counterproductive, doesn't work, and is just plain stupid.
now that you have the facts, there's only one step left to your goal, which is understanding it. as you may or may not know, that step's always the most difficult, exponentially. godspeed, young jedi.
Gennadios
Tanking's role is for the crazy difficult areas where a single group of mobs has the capacity to take out even a competent, well prepared party because the GW development team is on crack and couldn't come up with a more viable challenge.
These areas are limited to HM Vloxen Excavations, HM Slaver's Exile, and the Domain of Anguish. Where having one frontliner soak up 800 points of damage a second is easier to manage than having all party members soak up 100 points of damage a second.
Is a tank necessary in general PvE? No, tanks generally don't add any damage to the party, and everything else can be handled by monks without need for tank'n'spank.
These areas are limited to HM Vloxen Excavations, HM Slaver's Exile, and the Domain of Anguish. Where having one frontliner soak up 800 points of damage a second is easier to manage than having all party members soak up 100 points of damage a second.
Is a tank necessary in general PvE? No, tanks generally don't add any damage to the party, and everything else can be handled by monks without need for tank'n'spank.
Gill Halendt
Define "tanking".
The "tank" I use to think about is a heavily-armored frontliner who's able to soak up damage better than his teammates while doing his job - beating up things. That's pretty much "positional" tanking, which is not a bad thing at all.
Most of the people though have the passive doorstop in mind. No, thanks.
The "tank" I use to think about is a heavily-armored frontliner who's able to soak up damage better than his teammates while doing his job - beating up things. That's pretty much "positional" tanking, which is not a bad thing at all.
Most of the people though have the passive doorstop in mind. No, thanks.
REDdelver
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenomortis
It isn't efficient though.
Keep the wheels of the steamroller turning! give the frontline big sticks to hit stuff with and:Quote:
There's no secret. What you've found is that the vast majority of GW players are dumb. It shouldn't surprise you.
On another note: It seems a lot of people now just refer to a warrior as a tank in general terms, as in interchangable title.
On another note: It seems a lot of people now just refer to a warrior as a tank in general terms, as in interchangable title.
Reverend Dr
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Josip
But since tanking is so widespread, there must be something I'm missing.
You see Guild Wars is an MMO, so therefore it must be exactly like every other existing MMO.
Tanks really started with everquest. In that game the only way to reduce the damage monsters delt to manageable levels was to put all of the monsters attacking one highly armored target; this was also made easier by the highly armored targets having commands that forced the AI to attack them. This type of defense oriented team was just never needed in Guild Wars. Warriors in Guild Wars take roughly half the damage compared to casters, while in most traditional MMO's it isn't uncommon to se a 10X difference in taken damage from hard target to caster. Players in Guild Wars all have the same amount of hit points, while in tradtional MMO's warriors will have roughly 2-3x times more than casters. Traditional MMO's do not have the prot line of spells. All of the reasons for tanks in traditional MMO's just do not apply to Guild Wars.
And yet people are still so dumb that since Guild Wars is an MMO we must use tanks. It took people roughly two years to realize that the necro will generally outperform a nuker-styled elementalist, so really what do you expect.
Also some people are so brain dead that anything with weapon + armor = tank, insisting on calling any warrior a tank regardless of whether or not they are fulfilling that role.
You see Guild Wars is an MMO, so therefore it must be exactly like every other existing MMO.
Tanks really started with everquest. In that game the only way to reduce the damage monsters delt to manageable levels was to put all of the monsters attacking one highly armored target; this was also made easier by the highly armored targets having commands that forced the AI to attack them. This type of defense oriented team was just never needed in Guild Wars. Warriors in Guild Wars take roughly half the damage compared to casters, while in most traditional MMO's it isn't uncommon to se a 10X difference in taken damage from hard target to caster. Players in Guild Wars all have the same amount of hit points, while in tradtional MMO's warriors will have roughly 2-3x times more than casters. Traditional MMO's do not have the prot line of spells. All of the reasons for tanks in traditional MMO's just do not apply to Guild Wars.
And yet people are still so dumb that since Guild Wars is an MMO we must use tanks. It took people roughly two years to realize that the necro will generally outperform a nuker-styled elementalist, so really what do you expect.
Also some people are so brain dead that anything with weapon + armor = tank, insisting on calling any warrior a tank regardless of whether or not they are fulfilling that role.
The Josip
I finally understood how good tanking is and what it is!
So, playing Discord today my all-caster group faces enemy mob and.. our tanks bravely charge forward! And do their job well.
They are called minions.
So, playing Discord today my all-caster group faces enemy mob and.. our tanks bravely charge forward! And do their job well.
They are called minions.
Zahr Dalsk
HigherMinion
Quote:
Originally Posted by khezial tahr
Just wondering... can you make a post without mentioning ER?
I could give it a go.
Done. Apart from the quote
Done. Apart from the quote
maxxfury
TLDR: if your 'tanking' anywere but some broken elite area like doa or doin a sc, then your wasting not only time but a lot of potential damage output.
Smash stuff, dont tank.
And not wanting to buck the current trend, ER pwns! well it does...
Smash stuff, dont tank.
And not wanting to buck the current trend, ER pwns!
4thVariety
Once HM starts hitting you in the face and especially in some of the harder dungeon, people can no longer charge into enemy mobs expecting it to be enough that somebody reacts to the damage. You have to prepare to take it.
Your option are as follows: Get the enemies to somehow attack one person only and make sure that one person can take it. Either that one person has enough skills with him, or the group spends some more on him. Each team member brings skills to turn off the damage that is killing you, so your general damage intake can again be healed in reaction to its occurrence. (Used to be Ursan) Some classes are rather naked when it comes to this in HM. Somebody can make the whole party super tough (e.g. Save Yourselves) You distribute the damage on as many people as possible. You bring sacrificial lambs called minions and ghosts. You have skills allowing you to control the enemy AI (Does not exist in GW) You have equipment counteracting the gap between your stats and the enemie's stats (Does not exist in GW)
Many MMOs allow you to control the enemy AI, guiding its decisions to attack one person. Due to that, more defensive characters can approach the mob as a whole and cast on the tank. The remaining damage is being eaten up by monks in reaction to the damage happening.
GW does not lend itself to this type of AI disabling gameplay. If people want to succeed they either have to learn to behave in a certain way to play Tank & Spank, bring somebody who can juggle Save Yourself, or trust in the minions sucking up enough damage for the rest to not matter.
Your option are as follows: Get the enemies to somehow attack one person only and make sure that one person can take it. Either that one person has enough skills with him, or the group spends some more on him. Each team member brings skills to turn off the damage that is killing you, so your general damage intake can again be healed in reaction to its occurrence. (Used to be Ursan) Some classes are rather naked when it comes to this in HM. Somebody can make the whole party super tough (e.g. Save Yourselves) You distribute the damage on as many people as possible. You bring sacrificial lambs called minions and ghosts. You have skills allowing you to control the enemy AI (Does not exist in GW) You have equipment counteracting the gap between your stats and the enemie's stats (Does not exist in GW)
Many MMOs allow you to control the enemy AI, guiding its decisions to attack one person. Due to that, more defensive characters can approach the mob as a whole and cast on the tank. The remaining damage is being eaten up by monks in reaction to the damage happening.
GW does not lend itself to this type of AI disabling gameplay. If people want to succeed they either have to learn to behave in a certain way to play Tank & Spank, bring somebody who can juggle Save Yourself, or trust in the minions sucking up enough damage for the rest to not matter.