Weapon Requirements
jazilla
I would really like to see all weapon requirements have to be met by the player to get EVERY benefit from the weapon. You should not get the +5 Energy bonus from a sword/spear/axe etc. unless you meet the weapon requirement. Adrenaline should only be given to the character when they hit in melee if the weapon requirement is met by the player. If you can not fill the requirement of a weapon you should not get bonus to health, armor etc. Shields should not give armor at all unless the requirement is met.
Arduin
Obvious question: why would you want this change?
Because it would severely screw over the non-caster professions when using a staff for extra energy.
Because it would severely screw over the non-caster professions when using a staff for extra energy.
xMinimalism
They made the game how they want it to be.
As Arduin asked:
As Arduin asked:
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Originally Posted by Arduin
Obvious question: why would you want this change?
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Grim Aragorn
BUT THEN ALL THE PVE MONKS CANT RUN AROUND WITH TORMENTED SHIELDS AND EBLADEs !!!!!! NOT fAIR AT ALL!
MagmaRed
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Originally Posted by jazilla
I would really like to see all weapon requirements have to be met by the player to get EVERY benefit from the weapon. You should not get the +5 Energy bonus from a sword/spear/axe etc. unless you meet the weapon requirement. Adrenaline should only be given to the character when they hit in melee if the weapon requirement is met by the player. If you can not fill the requirement of a weapon you should not get bonus to health, armor etc. Shields should not give armor at all unless the requirement is met.
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You sound like someone who can't kill a player in RA because they are using a shield on a Monk.
jazilla
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Originally Posted by MagmaRed
You obviously don't play, or like, the Paragon class. This would hurt far more than help, and I do see SOME of the reasons you may want this. But the people benefitting from weapons/shields they do not meet the requirement for are not always getting the full benefit, and they pay other costs to get what they are getting.
You sound like someone who can't kill a player in RA because they are using a shield on a Monk. |
I am really just under the impression and it is my opinion that you should have to use the items that correspond to your skill set and attributes. If Hammer Warriors want to get adrenaline from spear use, they should have to pour points into it. If monks want armor from a shield, they should have to pour points into whatever attribute they are using. It's my opinion and I don't think it's as outlandish of me to think that way as you are seeming to make it out to be.
Reverend Dr
Actually I feel that a lot of complications are arising from being able to get some equipment benefits without the supposed investment in attribute points.
jazilla
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Originally Posted by Arduin
Obvious question: why would you want this change?
Because it would severely screw over the non-caster professions when using a staff for extra energy. |
Arduin
The concept is hard to grasp because these game mechanics are in place for nearly 5 years now.
I'm thinking more about the trade-offs, taking the monk with a shield as example. Extremely simplified, a Monk with a shield with 12 in Tactics would gain 16 AL from the shield but needs to pull points from Divine Favor, thereby having less healing power. A Monk with 0 in Tactics would only have 8 AL from the shield, but would have more healing power. And a Monk without a shield, but using a focus would have 0 AL, but extra energy and a possible half skill recharge, depending on mods.
That's why I think it's acceptable to have professions using 'non-intended' weapons.
I'm thinking more about the trade-offs, taking the monk with a shield as example. Extremely simplified, a Monk with a shield with 12 in Tactics would gain 16 AL from the shield but needs to pull points from Divine Favor, thereby having less healing power. A Monk with 0 in Tactics would only have 8 AL from the shield, but would have more healing power. And a Monk without a shield, but using a focus would have 0 AL, but extra energy and a possible half skill recharge, depending on mods.
That's why I think it's acceptable to have professions using 'non-intended' weapons.
Axel Zinfandel
As in Arduin's example, it's fine the way it is.
Attacking with a spear with no points will gain adrenaline sure, but you aren't doing any real damage at all, same with energy/AL from Focuses/staffs/shields.
To answer this question:
Because GW itself is based around synergy with secondary professions as well as their weapons. Not to mention what you are proposing is far too much hassle, for the players and the devs.
However though I think what you're proposing IS on the extreme side, I don't see why some of those added bonus can't be reduced/scaled like AL/Energy is as well. +energy on staffs should be fine because there is no req for them. Adrenaline is fine the way it is, and shouldn't scale or be reduced.
However I can see bonuses from mods scaled
...but do I think it's necessary? definitely not.
Attacking with a spear with no points will gain adrenaline sure, but you aren't doing any real damage at all, same with energy/AL from Focuses/staffs/shields.
To answer this question:
Quote:
| Why should there be benefits for these classes from weapons that don't correspond to the attributes that they have points in? |
However though I think what you're proposing IS on the extreme side, I don't see why some of those added bonus can't be reduced/scaled like AL/Energy is as well. +energy on staffs should be fine because there is no req for them. Adrenaline is fine the way it is, and shouldn't scale or be reduced.
However I can see bonuses from mods scaled
...but do I think it's necessary? definitely not.
jazilla
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Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel
As in Arduin's example, it's fine the way it is.
Attacking with a spear with no points will gain adrenaline sure, but you aren't doing any real damage at all, same with energy/AL from Focuses/staffs/shields. To answer this question: Because GW itself is based around synergy with secondary professions as well as their weapons. Not to mention what you are proposing is far too much hassle, for the players and the devs. However though I think what you're proposing IS on the extreme side, I don't see why some of those added bonus can't be reduced/scaled like AL/Energy is as well. +energy on staffs should be fine because there is no req for them. Adrenaline is fine the way it is, and shouldn't scale or be reduced. However I can see bonuses from mods scaled ...but do I think it's necessary? definitely not. |
If Adrenaline were fine how it is, then why do warriors use spears that they pour no points into get adrenaline faster with a spear than by using the hammer that they have all the points in for? That is the disconnect for me. People complain that balance will never happen again, but what I am proposing would get rid of quite a few gimmick builds just with this change to weapons. As far as the secondary profession is concerned, you shouldn't be able to equip a weapon from any class and get the benefit unless you have the points in the attribute. If I go secondary mesmer, I should have to have req. 9 in whatever attribute to use a weapon/focus shield in that mesmer line. I shouldn't be able to go A/Me and use a monk staff for energy. It seems ridiculous at that point to even have requirements for weapons at all. This would help the economy as well by getting rid of people buying rare skins for stuff they don't have the req for. if youw ant 20% enchanting on a staff, fill out the req. if you are an assassin you should have to get it with daggers unless you can pour the points into the other attribute. this i think is the intended use of req 8 weapons as well. and would make them more expensive, which they should be.
MagmaRed
Adrenaline comes from physical activity. You can gain adrenaline without even hitting anything with any weapon. All you need is to take damage and wait patiently. You want to change game mechanics in a HUGE way. Currently the requirement on a weapon/shield/focus/etc. only corresponds to one aspect of that item. So a staff gives you less damage when you do not meet the requirement, but all other mods work fine. To change that would mean that energy, skill recharge, casting speed, condition reduction, etc. would need to be modified. And due to those modifications, skill balance would need to be altered.
Shields give you armor even with no points towards the requirement, but not the full armor. This is the balance for it. Weapons do damage with no points towards the requirement, but not very much damage. This is the balance for it. If the other mods on weapons that do not need a requirement bother you, play something else. Although the game is not perfect, it has been around for almost 5 years and had very little change in the game mechanics. Such a major change at this point in the game would be silly.
Do any of the things you want changed pose a SERIOUS problem to current game balance? If so, which, and how?
Shields give you armor even with no points towards the requirement, but not the full armor. This is the balance for it. Weapons do damage with no points towards the requirement, but not very much damage. This is the balance for it. If the other mods on weapons that do not need a requirement bother you, play something else. Although the game is not perfect, it has been around for almost 5 years and had very little change in the game mechanics. Such a major change at this point in the game would be silly.
Do any of the things you want changed pose a SERIOUS problem to current game balance? If so, which, and how?
Pugs Not Drugs
like it was mentioned before, this would seriously screw over all those pve monks with dedicated torm swords/spears/axes/shields, not to mention the impact it would have on the economy
Yawgmoth
Horrible suggestion that would do only bad and nothing nothing good at all. Seriously, the system works perfectly fine and your pointless nerfs would only kill variety of possible uses. Adding MORE variety would be much better instead, but that too would have to impact the balance.
Oh, and the impact on economy would also be hugely NEGATIVE.
Oh, and the impact on economy would also be hugely NEGATIVE.
jazilla
i can't believe that making people only use an item that they have points in is such a huge deal. to me it is perfectly logical. @MagmaRed: seriously, i ma not saying that people shouldn't get adrenaline when hit. I am just saying get rid of the gimmick ways in which people get adrenaline. it's not that wild to think that is a viable solution to fix some things. that would cause balance because you would be forced to spend points into an attribute to use an item. if i go with your logic then, why not just change it so that requirements mean nothing? It's not as if the current situation is perfect. far from it. I am just trying to cause discussion to fix some of the problems in the game.
Dre
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Originally Posted by jazilla
If Adrenaline were fine how it is, then why do warriors use spears that they pour no points into get adrenaline faster with a spear than by using the hammer that they have all the points in for? That is the disconnect for me. People complain that balance will never happen again, but what I am proposing would get rid of quite a few gimmick builds just with this change to weapons.
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I already did that with a bow before the release of factions
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Originally Posted by jazilla
As far as the secondary profession is concerned, you shouldn't be able to equip a weapon from any class and get the benefit unless you have the points in the attribute. If I go secondary mesmer, I should have to have req. 9 in whatever attribute to use a weapon/focus shield in that mesmer line. I shouldn't be able to go A/Me and use a monk staff for energy. It seems ridiculous at that point to even have requirements for weapons at all. This would help the economy as well by getting rid of people buying rare skins for stuff they don't have the req for. if youw ant 20% enchanting on a staff, fill out the req. if you are an assassin you should have to get it with daggers unless you can pour the points into the other attribute. this i think is the intended use of req 8 weapons as well. and would make them more expensive, which they should be.
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Req 8 melee/ranged weapons? no
Weapons already do lower dmg when you don't meet the requirement
Seems more than enough for me
Desert Rose
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Originally Posted by jazilla
i can't believe that making people only use an item that they have points in is such a huge deal. to me it is perfectly logical.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jazilla
People complain that balance will never happen again, but what I am proposing would get rid of quite a few gimmick builds just with this change to weapons.
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This suggestion would reduce the number of useable weapon sets, therefor reduce the importance of proper weapon swapping. Weapon swapping enables very ambitious players to be a little better than anybody else, so it shouldn't be limited or removed.
Schnellburg
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Originally Posted by jazilla
i can't believe that making people only use an item that they have points in is such a huge deal. to me it is perfectly logical. @MagmaRed: seriously, i ma not saying that people shouldn't get adrenaline when hit. I am just saying get rid of the gimmick ways in which people get adrenaline. it's not that wild to think that is a viable solution to fix some things. that would cause balance because you would be forced to spend points into an attribute to use an item. if i go with your logic then, why not just change it so that requirements mean nothing? It's not as if the current situation is perfect. far from it. I am just trying to cause discussion to fix some of the problems in the game.
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Ginger Hunter
Bad idea. Simple as.
For starters, if this did get implemented you would most likely have to cool down alot of damage coming lots of different sources as shields are currently a way to tone down the stupid amount of damage warriors, rangers, paragons and elementalists are capable of pumping out these days. It would completely mess up balance (the very little that is left), and would require of alot of work to sort out.
For starters, if this did get implemented you would most likely have to cool down alot of damage coming lots of different sources as shields are currently a way to tone down the stupid amount of damage warriors, rangers, paragons and elementalists are capable of pumping out these days. It would completely mess up balance (the very little that is left), and would require of alot of work to sort out.
HawkofStorms
So... you want to make the game more simplistic, not to mention break a lot of the core concepts of having a secondary profession.
There isn't any real BENEFIT to this change.
There isn't any real BENEFIT to this change.
To Chicken To Die
Just a simple question on the why you think benefits from weapons shouldn't be..
why not? cus it seems unlogical to you? You really don't make any sence or you put to much value into the whole requirment concept here.
Just see it like this. You get benefit for the requirment but a penalty for not meeting the requirment. (as in 8 armor instead 16 for a shield)
why not? cus it seems unlogical to you? You really don't make any sence or you put to much value into the whole requirment concept here.
Just see it like this. You get benefit for the requirment but a penalty for not meeting the requirment. (as in 8 armor instead 16 for a shield)
Death By An Arrow
quick fix:
Wintergreen/Peppermint/Gingerbread weapons.
No requirements, they give those 'evil' proffesions the armor bonus, without requiring any attribute points (16AL q9 with No atts = 8Al q0)
I believe the staves can be modded, so there would be no requirement for the mods added on.
Possibly adding in more weapons with mechanics like these would be a good solution? Its definatly possible and easy to implement (though it wouldnt get implemented, what with all the work going into GW2)
Wintergreen/Peppermint/Gingerbread weapons.
No requirements, they give those 'evil' proffesions the armor bonus, without requiring any attribute points (16AL q9 with No atts = 8Al q0)
I believe the staves can be modded, so there would be no requirement for the mods added on.
Possibly adding in more weapons with mechanics like these would be a good solution? Its definatly possible and easy to implement (though it wouldnt get implemented, what with all the work going into GW2)
Tenebrae
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Originally Posted by HawkofStorms
So... you want to make the game more simplistic, not to mention break a lot of the core concepts of having a secondary profession.
There isn't any real BENEFIT to this change. |
Morphy
So you want to invalidate weapon swapping? Great idea!
/notsigned
/notsigned
Pleikki
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Originally Posted by jazilla
You should not get the +5 Energy bonus from a sword/spear/axe etc. unless you meet the weapon requirement.
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And axes swords etc inscriable with like 5-10dmg and no req.
RedDog91
I believe this is a Q.Q thread based on the other team in RA having a monk with a caster spear set.
*sigh*
*sigh*
jazilla
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Originally Posted by RedDog91
I believe this is a Q.Q thread based on the other team in RA having a monk with a caster spear set.
*sigh* |
Swahnee
Well, this is simply the way the game works. Other games like Neverwinter Nights don't even allow you to equip weapons that aren't designed for your profession or even for your race, but this is simply a designing choice that ANet made for GW.
Like others have said, the basic idea is to give players the choice of mixing their profession's features with the other professions' ones, like the secondary profession system. Do you also want GoLE to not work if you haven't any point in energy storage for example?
Maybe you like the idea of not being able to mix different professions' features more, like you do in other games, but this is your opinion. This is the way this game works, and for a lot of people, as you've seen in this thread, it's perfectly fine.
Like others have said, the basic idea is to give players the choice of mixing their profession's features with the other professions' ones, like the secondary profession system. Do you also want GoLE to not work if you haven't any point in energy storage for example?
Maybe you like the idea of not being able to mix different professions' features more, like you do in other games, but this is your opinion. This is the way this game works, and for a lot of people, as you've seen in this thread, it's perfectly fine.
MagmaRed
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Originally Posted by jazilla
If you read any of my posts you would realize that it isn't a QQ post at all. I think it's cheap for Hammer Warriors to gain adrenaline with a weapon(spear) that they pour no points into. I love how you didn't read what I wrote at all in response and just assumed that was what I was talking about. It is also about using a melee weapon with a focus to get more energy than having to pour points into that attribute to gain the energy benefit as well. I wasn't whining at all. This is a serious post. Why is it so far fetched that you should have to pour points into the attribute of the weapon/focus/shield that you are using to gain any benefit?
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Reverend Dr
+24 armor is balanced for not having to invest any attributes, or even the appropriate secondary class
The Drunkard
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Originally Posted by jazilla
If you read any of my posts you would realize that it isn't a QQ post at all. I think it's cheap for Hammer Warriors to gain adrenaline with a weapon(spear) that they pour no points into?
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/notsigned
Bob Slydell
Never going to happen.
Regulus X
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Originally Posted by Pugs Not Drugs
like it was mentioned before, this would seriously screw over all those pve monks with dedicated torm swords/spears/axes/shields, not to mention the impact it would have on the economy
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Either way, I’m not worried about this post’s suggestion one bit because Anet would have to be on some good crack to take the time, implement, and essentially screw over/drive away what little remaining playerbase they have. If they want to run players out of the game, they’d code this suggestion in; otherwise, it’s a no-go!
I think this thread can be summed up by the following quotes:
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Originally Posted by Grim Aragorn
BUT THEN ALL THE PVE MONKS CANT RUN AROUND WITH TORMENTED SHIELDS AND EBLADEs !!!!!! NOT fAIR AT ALL!
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by MagmaRed
You sound like someone who can't kill a player in RA PvP because they are using a shield on a Monk.
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