If ANET wanna catch come cheaters, why don't they try this... - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

tlee

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2010

30 Jan 2010 at 03:15 - 1

For example, Gold buyers...

ANET should set up a bogus website advertising to sell GW gold and when players buy it and once delivered, BANNED!

Or would this cause a nice law suit on behalf of ANET?

If they can't do this then how would the GMs even catch gold buyers? Sometimes I wonder how some people have over 500k gold. I work hella hard and after a few upgrades, my gold is done!

Kook~NBK~

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2005

A little chalet outside Drok's

Natural Born Killaz

30 Jan 2010 at 03:26 - 2

That would be entrapment. and that means lawsuits galore! They have ways of catching gold sellers/buyers - not fool-proof, but they do bust a lot of 'em.

As for people having over 500k - it's not that hard to come up with that kind of cash. It's just a matter of knowing the market & making the most out of the drops you get. Get a perfect Silverwing recurve bow, sell it for 250 ectos. At 6K per ecto, that's 1,500K. At 8K per, you've just made 2,000k. I won't even go into how much old all of the players who've been playing since the beginning have made & spent on things like FoW armor, booze, sweets, party items, lockpicks, etc.

tlee

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2010

30 Jan 2010 at 03:30 - 3

damn... that's a lot. That means I need to farm more. I'm not much of a farmer... It's too bad ANET has nerfed a lot of the good old spots and will probably do the same to the new spots too such as raptor farming..

If that is entrapment then how does all those shows on TV such as 'how to catch a predator", and some cops buying/selling weed/drugs get away? That is entrapment too isn't it?

RorripopRane

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Dec 2009

N/Mo

30 Jan 2010 at 03:57 - 4

Entrapment is when you specifically tempt someone into doing something illegal. Posing as someone else (like an undercover police officer) isn't entrapment -- note that there is a very specific point when the police are allowed to arrest someone for dealing drugs/being a predator. Policemen pretending to be minors on the internet can't say very much -- its the predator that has to be the one that starts talking about sexual stuff before they can take action. Likewise, when the police get a tip off that X person is a drug dealer, they aren't "trapping" them by pretending buy drugs and then arresting him or her. They're just pretending to be a "customer".

I don't really see how Anet would be able to catch platinum buyers/sellers... its not like they have time to monitor large money transfers. Anyway, the way Guild Wars is built (and like what Kook said) its already pretty easy to make money compared to other RPGs, there isn't really a business for it. GW isn't equipment driven -- the most expensive stuff is decorative, not functional. If I were a player, I'd honestly rather spend the time farming stuff Obsidian armor than paying 10-20 real life bucks for it... almost every PvE activity in GW is profitable.

Swehurn

1,787,569

Join Date: Jul 2005

BC, Canada

30 Jan 2010 at 04:35 - 5

There's a fine line between posing as a seller and actively trying to sell. If the defendent can establish a case that the seller lured them into doing something illegal that they normally wouldn't do, then there's a basis for an entrapment claim.

The website probably wouldn't meet the test of entrapment, as it's not "illegal" to buy in-game gold, just against the EULA. It would be pretty bad PR, though.

Diab Soule

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2010

30 Jan 2010 at 04:38 - 6

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlee

damn... that's a lot. That means I need to farm more. I'm not much of a farmer... It's too bad ANET has nerfed a lot of the good old spots and will probably do the same to the new spots too such as raptor farming..

If that is entrapment then how does all those shows on TV such as 'how to catch a predator", and some cops buying/selling weed/drugs get away? That is entrapment too isn't it?

Yea thats what I was thinking about the entrapment thing, like setting up female cops as prostitutes to catch people who would have bought it.

cosyfiep

are we there yet?

Join Date: Dec 2005

in a land far far away

guild? I am supposed to have a guild?

Rt/

30 Jan 2010 at 04:42 - 7

think they should just do the 'buying' and then they could catch the sellers when the delivery happens....

Bob Slydell

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2007

30 Jan 2010 at 05:06 - 8

They catch them by looking at logs when a trade goes one way with a huge sum of gold. Sometimes though, legit players get caught in the middle and sometimes never get their account back, which is ultra fail.

X Ghoul

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2009

IGN: X Ghoul

Mega M O R P H I N Power Ranger [pR]

Rt/W

30 Jan 2010 at 06:09 - 9

More than gold buying I wish they would address the bot issue in pvp >__>

Chthon

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Apr 2007

30 Jan 2010 at 06:54 - 10

Entrapment is when the state entices someone to do something illegal. It is a defense to criminal liability. There is no parallel concept barring a-net from enticing someone to do something in violating of the EULA, they banning them for it. Though one might argue that by offering RMT transactions to you, a-net waived the part of the EULA forbidding RMT transactions.

FengShuiDove

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2007

Trinity of the Ascended [ToA]

A/

30 Jan 2010 at 06:58 - 11

Great idea. I hate those come cheaters.

Ferminator

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2009

D/

30 Jan 2010 at 07:30 - 12

It would not be entrapment because the gold buyers are buying gold while fully aware that it is against the EULA if the site looks no different to the other hundreds of gold selling sites.

What would be easier though is if A-net leaked a rumor that they are running or monitoring several gold selling sites that they have established.

dr love

...is in denial

Join Date: Sep 2006

Hyperion

starcraft 2

P/Me

30 Jan 2010 at 07:48 - 13

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Ghoul

More than gold buying I wish they would address the bot issue in pvp >__>

and in pve.

a large reason gold sellers prevail is because they can bot the ship out of this game with little risk and good payoff. there are also people with pretty much unlimited funds, i.e. just having an unded kanaxai, though i don't think they'd be the type to cash it all in.

to the OP, if you're still in the stage where you have to pay for your new skills, max armor etc, it will be a while yet before you start amassing gold.

Quote:

think they should just do the 'buying' and then they could catch the sellers when the delivery happens....

also i never understood why they didn't use this aggressively. i can buy gold right now and have it in 24hrs. its all on google first page. the only thing i could consider is, that the gold sellers isolate each botting account. they never trade with their other accounts. so all they have to do is amass 100k+ on their $5 proph only account and sell it. if that account gets banned, so what, they made $50 from $5. they probably have bots to get them from pre searing to wherever they need in a few hours. but anet could trace some IPs and get an idea of who's who.

but really what they should've done is mitigate pve bot/lamer activity right from the start. bots succeed in repetitive, easily farmed areas. so either there should be pathetic/no rewards from some of these, some should be removed from the game, some should more aggressively temp banned (dishonorable status is nothing). let me list some for you

1. snowball dominance (repeatable! with amazing rewards, possibly the best consistent farm in the game)
2. raptors (hi right outside town)
3. farming aatxe in uw chamber (easy to do with spirit spammer)
4. zaishen elite (used to work amazing with heroes)
5. JQ/FA/AB afk
6. luxon afk
7. trolls (like raptors)
8. bergen hot springs
9. that halloween skeleton capture quest
10. polar bear quest
11. snowball/RA afk
12. repeatable factions quests
the list goes on.

these bots all exist and the programmers were so nice that most can be downloaded easily and freely.

i don't play WoW, but as far as i know, the only things worth a damn are high end items from raids. you can't bot raids.

Mordiego

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2007

Pozna??, UTC+1

We Are From Poland [Pol]

N/A

30 Jan 2010 at 08:10 - 14

/not signed
But aNet should implement a bot that surfs the sites of the gold-selling companies, purchase gold, then ban the accounts trading it. BAH!

4thVariety

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

European Union

ADL

E/

30 Jan 2010 at 08:56 - 15

If you set rules for everybody, then you have to live by them as well. You can not go around breaking your own rules and try to excuse that by saying it was for the greater good.

NoConnection

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2007

A/W

30 Jan 2010 at 09:08 - 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

There is no parallel concept barring a-net from enticing someone to do something in violating of the EULA, they banning them for it. Though one might argue that by offering RMT transactions to you, a-net waived the part of the EULA forbidding RMT transactions.

according to the eula which you agreed with, they can ban you just for existing, they dont even need a reason to do it...

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

30 Jan 2010 at 09:45 - 17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordiego

/not signed
But aNet should implement a bot that surfs the sites of the gold-selling companies, purchase gold, then ban the accounts trading it. BAH!

That would be pointless:

Trader account does not hold much money and is mostly just someones hijacked account that is also being used for spam anyway.

Banning it would not solve anything, not when they already have money in pocket.

Banning buyers sound much more effective. Preferably with public humiliation in case of more "known" players.

Phaern Majes

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2005

Anywhere but up

The Panserbjorne [ROAR]

R/Mo

30 Jan 2010 at 10:47 - 18

Is gold selling even really an issue in guild wars? I played pretty consistently since June of '05 and never really noticed it. Gold/ectos are plenty easy to farm. And quite honestly if someone wants to actually go out and waste real $$ for a game that is in its final chapter they can be my guest.

Dunno just seems anything worth buying can be farmed, and the only thing a gold buyer is gonna do is exchange the money for ectos; then sit on it. Meh but then I've never seen the point to buying gold for any game.

Mordiego

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2007

Pozna??, UTC+1

We Are From Poland [Pol]

N/A

30 Jan 2010 at 11:48 - 19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phaern Majes

Is gold selling even really an issue in guild wars?...

Yh, it is. If U ever played the game other way than just h/h U shoulda notice that. It's a huge problem that causes griefing among players who don't buy gold for real money. It also has a strong influence on the inflation, provides a reason for gold selling companies to steal accounts, not to mention causing abuse of chinese kids for slave gold farming.

Master Ketsu

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2006

middle of nowhere

Krazy Guild With Krazy People [KrZy]

R/

30 Jan 2010 at 11:59 - 20

Quote:

I wonder how some people have over 500k gold

Just one good drop can land you this much.

pumpkin pie

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

behind you

bumble bee

E/

30 Jan 2010 at 12:12 - 21

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlee

For example, Gold buyers...

ANET should set up a bogus website advertising to sell GW gold and when players buy it and once delivered, BANNED!

Or would this cause a nice law suit on behalf of ANET?

If they can't do this then how would the GMs even catch gold buyers? Sometimes I wonder how some people have over 500k gold. I work hella hard and after a few upgrades, my gold is done!

500k is easy lah

i have way more than that once upon a time. now I sell and use everything. Lesson to Anet, keep your customer's account safe and they just might buy storage pane from you!

now storage is useless because I am using the "empty city" tactic. nothing good in my storage to steal

on topic:

Can't Arena Net trace where our gold and items go? Suppose they can, they don't have to entrap anyone at all, just trace the money from hacked accounts and see where they go and catche the culprit?

Sethellington

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2005

nn

N/

30 Jan 2010 at 13:37 - 22

that's entrapment and really not a very good idea, but i see where you're coming from. it is frustrating that people can just go and buy whatever they like. seems there's no easy fix though.

Lycan Nibbler

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2006

AZ

30 Jan 2010 at 15:43 - 23

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

Can't Arena Net trace where our gold and items go? Suppose they can, they don't have to entrap anyone at all, just trace the money from hacked accounts and see where they go and catche the culprit?

They have said in the past that they can (see duping) as they said theyd caught all the dupers (which I dont believe they did) but then on the other hand, they say they cant return items that have been ransacked from a stolen account.

My best guess is that they probably could, but the resources involved to do it makes it not viable.

Dave83

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2005

England

SeS

Me/Mo

30 Jan 2010 at 16:28 - 24

First post in nearly 3 years =D

Basically, there should be some international law set. Only the crooks profit from all this gold selling. It ruins in game econamy, spoils it for alot of people getting their accounts hacked. It can't be good for those chinease kids so far as learning morals go and education if they are on the net all day etc. I don't understand the farce, all they need to do is get them on selling virtual goods / not a physical property.

karlik

Banned

Join Date: Sep 2009

30 Jan 2010 at 18:09 - 25

People are gonna buy gold, and that means people are gonna sell it.

I still say the best solution is make it legal and anet just sells gold for less than any rmt could afford.

dr love

...is in denial

Join Date: Sep 2006

Hyperion

starcraft 2

P/Me

30 Jan 2010 at 18:40 - 26

while we're on the topic, does anyone care that 1000s of tonics are being botted every minute? because if nobody does, i'll be happy to bot this whole week and make a few 10000 tonics. i think together we can make it so every character in the game has max party animal. i will also bot myself a polar bear. i always wanted one of those.

Jensy

Site Contributor

Join Date: Apr 2007

Phoenix, Arizona

Blinkie Ponie Armie [bpa]

N/Mo

30 Jan 2010 at 18:44 - 27

Many, many people have / had over 500k just by playing the game. As stated, good drops can get you more ecto than you'll ever need sometimes. When the XTH, loads of people had more money than they knew what to do with, if they sold their zkeys.

I don't believe something like this will work. I know that people DO buy gold, don't get me wrong, I just think that both this approach, and the belief that everyone with more gold than you buys it, are incorrect.

TheRemedy

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2006

30 Jan 2010 at 18:51 - 28

Who cares about the gold sellers and buyers, the game is too old and people could just start giving their stuff away for all I care, it won't affect the messed up economy it is beyond repair. This issue is only known because Anet blames them for hacking peoples accounts. I would like to see proof of this, I haven't been "hacked" (knock on wood), and I've played MMO's since 1997. I haven't ever bought gold, chose good passwords and have used common sense. Unless you are buying gold you shouldn't have much to worry about. If Anet put as much effort into stopping bots as they do trying to delete gold from people the game would be much better. The reason why they don't is the whole intellectual property issue. They don't want other people making money from "their" game, hence the EULA bs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr love

and in pve.

a large reason gold sellers prevail is because they can bot the ship out of this game with little risk and good payoff. there are also people with pretty much unlimited funds, i.e. just having an unded kanaxai, though i don't think they'd be the type to cash it all in.

to the OP, if you're still in the stage where you have to pay for your new skills, max armor etc, it will be a while yet before you start amassing gold.

also i never understood why they didn't use this aggressively. i can buy gold right now and have it in 24hrs. its all on google first page. the only thing i could consider is, that the gold sellers isolate each botting account. they never trade with their other accounts. so all they have to do is amass 100k+ on their $5 proph only account and sell it. if that account gets banned, so what, they made $50 from $5. they probably have bots to get them from pre searing to wherever they need in a few hours. but anet could trace some IPs and get an idea of who's who.

but really what they should've done is mitigate pve bot/lamer activity right from the start. bots succeed in repetitive, easily farmed areas. so either there should be pathetic/no rewards from some of these, some should be removed from the game, some should more aggressively temp banned (dishonorable status is nothing). let me list some for you

1. snowball dominance (repeatable! with amazing rewards, possibly the best consistent farm in the game)
2. raptors (hi right outside town)
3. farming aatxe in uw chamber (easy to do with spirit spammer)
4. zaishen elite (used to work amazing with heroes)
5. JQ/FA/AB afk
6. luxon afk
7. trolls (like raptors)
8. bergen hot springs
9. that halloween skeleton capture quest
10. polar bear quest
11. snowball/RA afk
12. repeatable factions quests
the list goes on.

these bots all exist and the programmers were so nice that most can be downloaded easily and freely.

i don't play WoW, but as far as i know, the only things worth a damn are high end items from raids. you can't bot raids.

I wish the bots would stop, go to RA, you encounter so many bots, I can't imagine the farm bots, I don't understand why it is so tough to detect and ban this crap?

tlee

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2010

30 Jan 2010 at 19:24 - 29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordiego

/not signed
But aNet should implement a bot that surfs the sites of the gold-selling companies, purchase gold, then ban the accounts trading it. BAH!

There are massive people who does this bot farming and ANET would really have to spend a loooooooot of $$$ to even get half banned. And even so, those people running the bots could care less because they've made their $$$..

com'on, $20 for like 300k gold.. There are probably XXXX running and paying $20 x XXXXX = XXXXX $$$ for the botters. It's a win win for them and i don't think ANET is willing to spend that kind of $$$. If ANET ever did this, I bet most, if not all, of us would be tempted to program our own bots and this will only add fuel to the fire..

tlee

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2010

30 Jan 2010 at 19:34 - 30

Quote:

Originally Posted by karlik

People are gonna buy gold, and that means people are gonna sell it.

I still say the best solution is make it legal and anet just sells gold for less than any rmt could afford.

seriously, if ANET (only ANET though) does open an actual store to sell gold and maybe items? and even at higher prices, they would be making lots of $$$$. Probably more successful than selling storage pane panels. Who the hell wanna spend $10 per.. crazy? LOL!

BUT, on the other hand, doing this could cause some problems since not everyone can afford to use real $$$ to buy virtual stuff...

Perkunas

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2006

In my own little world, looking at yours

Only Us[NotU]

E/

30 Jan 2010 at 21:25 - 31

ANet could place a notice in the logon screen:

XXXX gold sellers/buyers banned last week.

Phaern Majes

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2005

Anywhere but up

The Panserbjorne [ROAR]

R/Mo

31 Jan 2010 at 00:40 - 32

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAmaizingDave

First post in nearly 3 years =D

Basically, there should be some international law set. Only the crooks profit from all this gold selling. It ruins in game econamy, spoils it for alot of people getting their accounts hacked. It can't be good for those chinease kids so far as learning morals go and education if they are on the net all day etc. I don't understand the farce, all they need to do is get them on selling virtual goods / not a physical property.

An international law wouldn't stop anything. The countries that dominate the gold selling market for online games, aren't going to give it up even if the UN did come to a consensus that it was bad (and I'm sure gold sellers and their effect on online gaming is at the top of their list to solve /sarcasm).

The only way to enforce an international law is by refusing trade/aid for countries that break the law. And nobody is ever going to place those kinds of restrictions on a country simply because they allow gold selling. If the international community had a real issue with child labor they would of taken action against countries that allow sweatshop labor, long before the internet and MMO's.

Its also worth noting that to most people, i.e. non-gamers, this probably isn't viewed as immoral. From a real life aspect its just a way to pay the bills and feed the kids for most people doing it. And really it may be annoying but it doesn't stop the game from being fun (if it did nobody would continue to play). No, the burden is always going to be on the game's developers to shut down gold sellers.

Zahr Dalsk

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2007

Canada

31 Jan 2010 at 01:06 - 33

Most people have run through a lot more than 500k (rather, a few million) in the course of their time playing Guild Wars, it's just that most people don't save it - we buy armour and such instead.

Also, in terms of time spent compared to money gained, if you have a job then gold buying is the way to go.

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

31 Jan 2010 at 01:28 - 34

If they made themselves a gold selling site, then there would be doubts about that gold selling site being 'legit'.
It won't be a third party.

It would make no sense, and bring more trouble than good.

Amy Awien

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

R/

31 Jan 2010 at 02:08 - 35

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlee

ANET should set up a bogus website advertising to sell GW gold and when players buy it and once delivered, BANNED!

If ANet would be selling gold, how would it be against the EULA when players bought gold from them?

coil

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2007

31 Jan 2010 at 02:57 - 36

what if they just....sold gold in their store !!!!

no more RMT no more accnt hacking omg win!

Copenhagen Master

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2006

El Centro CA

Lazy Imperius Legionis (LaZy)

W/P

31 Jan 2010 at 04:16 - 37

Just don't buy worthless crap, Pick everything up and sell it to the merchant. It easy to maintain gold in GW. You find out later that the problem is what to do with all your gold, once you get maxed 1mil

Jensy

Site Contributor

Join Date: Apr 2007

Phoenix, Arizona

Blinkie Ponie Armie [bpa]

N/Mo

31 Jan 2010 at 04:20 - 38

Yeah, this thread has run its course.