Viable melee paragon builds.

i tried this just now:
scythe 12 leadership 10+1+1 wind 8 command 2+1
victorious sweep
mystic sweep
go for the eyes
blazing finale
asuran scan
great dwarf armor
zealous vow
aura of holy might

master of damage reports about 80dps (not counting the 14 dps from constant burning) and you have 104+ armor and 660+ health while doing this. highest hit that i saw was 413. my titles are all maxed so ymmv.

i am using eyes of the forgotten (15>50, zealous, fortitude). energy is not a problem at all, just remember to refresh zealous vow. great dwarf armor gives another enchantment so that mystic sweep is delivering near max damage with the three enchantments active. When using Zealous Vow, it's best to use the most spammable skills; and the quick-attacks are most popular:
Mystic Sweep
Eremite's Attack; I'd change Victorious.

When using Zealous Vow, it's best to use the most spammable skills; and the quick-attacks are most popular:
Mystic Sweep
Eremite's Attack; I'd change Victorious. sure, you can change the attack skills to whatever. victorious has a fairly high damage bonus and the health gain is nice. Against less than three foes it will be more damage than Eremite's and about the same if you hit three. I like it because it's spammable and improves the staying power of frontliners.

Mystic and Eremite's both have faster than normal attack speed but does anyone know what happens if you chain them one after the other? do both attacks go faster than normal?

i don't know why i never see dervs using this because it is SPAM SPAM SPAM that puts warrior's endurance to shame. Why should we? I find that the Mysticism bonuses from prot spells make my energy bar overflow and blue juice pour out of my monitor anyway.

Why should we? I find that the Mysticism bonuses from prot spells make my energy bar overflow and blue juice pour out of my monitor anyway. It is actually the best elite a dervish could use. It is used for spamming quick-attack skills while under buffs such as AoHM, SoH and GDW. You never stop attacking, only to recast Zealous Vow every 20 seconds.

What you can do with your prots on a derv is useless compared to what damage can be caused by a ZV dervish in the right team.

What you can do with your prots on a derv is useless compared to what damage can be caused by a ZV dervish in the right team. Zealous Vow doesn't deal damage, so we're merely talking about energy management here. Just to clear this up: It isn't me casting the prots. They get cast anyway by one of the monks, and usually give me all the energy I need without having to spend a single slot, let alone an elite slot.

Zealous Vow doesn't deal damage, so we're merely talking about energy management here. Just to clear this up: It isn't me casting the prots. They get cast anyway by one of the monks, and usually give me all the energy I need without having to spend a single slot, let alone an elite slot. I highly doubt without any self-contained e-management you can spam as much as ZV; so we ARE talking about damage, because without it you will be on 0e alot of the time trying to do what that elite can do. A few prots just won't cut it.

Also due to attribute spread you can actually bring some decent skills for a change.

I highly doubt without any self-contained e-management you can spam as much as ZV; so we ARE talking about damage, because without it you will be on 0e alot of the time trying to do what that elite can do. A few prots just won't cut it.

Also due to attribute spread you can actually bring some decent skills for a change. If we're both hitting one target, I bet I can spam at least as much. If we're hitting multiples, you'd clearly beat me energy-wise. But that leaves me with an elite slot to help my damage along.
Perhaps if you use both quick-attacks, a constant IAS and one expensive scythe attack you'll deal more damage, but Mysticism is more reliable since it doesn't collapse as soon as you miss a few times.

If we're both hitting one target, I bet I can spam at least as much. If we're hitting multiples, you'd clearly beat me energy-wise. But that leaves me with an elite slot to help my damage along.
Perhaps if you use both quick-attacks, a constant IAS and one expensive scythe attack you'll deal more damage, but Mysticism is more reliable since it doesn't collapse as soon as you miss a few times. Paragons don't have access to Mysticism so this is not an option.

He was arguing that a primary dervish wouldn't need zealous vow to spam attacks because of the mysticism.

I am guessing that the only choices for paragon's 3rd scythe attack would be a toss up between farmer's scythe and victorious sweep (low recharge wise). I guess victorious sweep would be more useful for health + not relying on hitting multiple enemies to recharge. Okay then... strictly from a theoretical standpoint, we can prove that mysticism is not enough. If we spam some 5e attack skill and follow it with a 3/4s quick attack skill, we can do both in about 2.5 seconds, or even faster under IAS. So we need 10 energy every 2.5 seconds to maintain this.

Dervish gains 4 energy every 3 seconds from natural regen. If you happen to have 9+ mysticism AND you have two enchantments ending on you every 3 seconds, then you can get 10 energy in 3 seconds and maintain this rate of energy consumption. That seems a little unreasonable to me, even a prot monk with quick-casting spells can barely cast two of them on you in 3s, much less have them keep ending that quickly. remember aftercast. If you are under IAS or use attack skills that cost more than 5e or use other skills that cost energy all of this gets even harder to maintain.

Back to what you were saying earlier... farmer's scythe sounds pretty good, although victorious and mystic and eremites are spammable enough for my taste. If I have to make an Aura of Holy Might and Asuran Scan empowered autoattack for 150+ damage I won't cry too much. If you have an extra slot you may want to take some utility like Banishing Strike (destroy all minions and spirit spam) or maybe crippling sweep (keep them close until they are dead).

Okay then... strictly from a theoretical standpoint, we can prove that mysticism is not enough. If we spam some 5e attack skill and follow it with a 3/4s quick attack skill, we can do both in about 2.5 seconds, or even faster under IAS. So we need 10 energy every 2.5 seconds to maintain this.

Dervish gains 4 energy every 3 seconds from natural regen. If you happen to have 9+ mysticism AND you have two enchantments ending on you every 3 seconds, then you can get 10 energy in 3 seconds and maintain this rate of energy consumption. That seems a little unreasonable to me, even a prot monk with quick-casting spells can barely cast two of them on you in 3s, much less have them keep ending that quickly. remember aftercast. If you are under IAS or use attack skills that cost more than 5e or use other skills that cost energy all of this gets even harder to maintain. If you go in without a second melee, most of the prots will be cast on you. Reversal of Fortune and Life Sheath can easily both be cast on you by one monk in 3 seconds with time to spare. If you've got any other good Dervish-supporting enchantments in your team, like Order of the Vampire or Vigorous Spirit, it gets even easier. Spirit can be sacced to end it early for extra energy, Dervish has more than enough options for that.
And I wouldn't dream of going anywhere with less than 9 Mysticism.

If you go in without a second melee, most of the prots will be cast on you. Reversal of Fortune and Life Sheath can easily both be cast on you by one monk in 3 seconds with time to spare. If you've got any other good Dervish-supporting enchantments in your team, like Order of the Vampire or Vigorous Spirit, it gets even easier. Spirit can be sacced to end it early for extra energy, Dervish has more than enough options for that.
And I wouldn't dream of going anywhere with less than 9 Mysticism. However, what Prot monk have you seen recently running Life Sheath? It's not good to rely on others for your energy management. I wouldn't trust anyone else, other than to place damage buffs and maintained bonds on me. Enchants that require timing and must END to take effect, are not going to work well.

Also, that monk you tell to spam prots on you will run out of energy faaaaaaast.

Using rank skills is cheating, I don't do that. mmmk.

Level 30 monsters with inherent IAS, IMS, improved cast time, improved recharge time, improved energy regeneration, improved armor level and monster skills is also cheating. IMO the PvE skills just level the playing field a bit, but it takes full consets to level the playing field completely.

besides, if you are using a scythe and not using Aura of Holy Might you are missing out on a lot of damage.