Well, as the title says, I am not certain of what build my 3rd hero should run.
Since Im pretty sick of "calling", I´ve decided to give up Discord. I´ve looked around a bit and decided to use an E/Mo Prot and and a Monk Smite with RoJ for general PvE. By the way, since you are reading this, do you think it is a good setup? - I am an assassin with daggers (hate the scythe). So here is my point: I need a 3rd hero. I know conditionsand hexes are important as hell, especially in Hard Mode. But, I would like to have a MM as well. Is there like a good combination of these attributes and if there is, could you please post the build?
Thanks in advance for you suggestions,
/Lee
EDIT: I have looked around at PvX but I want to hear your opinions.
Curses or MM? Or perhaps a combo?
Kosman
ajc2123
How about something like this
11 +1 +1 death
11+1 curses
8 soul reaping (add a minor rune if you want >_>)
{Elite Skill} Aura of the Lich or Animate flesh golem. (I prefer first)
Animate Bone horror (Or animate bone minions)
Death Nova
Mark of Pain
Signet of lost souls
Rip enchantment
Optional
Resurrection signet
There you get some meat shields with some exploading damage (Not as much if you were 12+3+1 death magic mind you) and mark of pain to help your sins damage. Signet for survivability/energy, res sig for.....accidents, rip enchantment is more for some areas than others, and optional is for a secondary utility or just more curses/death magic.
I put down flesh golem as an optional elite becuase even though I love Aura of the lich, its sometimes good to have a pretty healthy meat shield running around instead of more that will jsut die instantly.
You can run a MM/curses hybrid in HM if you want, and i don't see why not. Most MM heros go MM/prot or restoration, but instead of protection to your allies you can just give him more damage skills from curses to help your dps. Granted I would suggest having a support hero somewhere but you can do it.
Just an idea.
Although with your hero's being spellcasters im not so sure the mark of pain I put in there would help enough to merit putting curses in. A smite and a E/mo prot isn't bad, but I prefer ray of judgement over signet of Judgement. There will be better builds out there for you to run, but its not particularly terrible.
11 +1 +1 death
11+1 curses
8 soul reaping (add a minor rune if you want >_>)
{Elite Skill} Aura of the Lich or Animate flesh golem. (I prefer first)
Animate Bone horror (Or animate bone minions)
Death Nova
Mark of Pain
Signet of lost souls
Rip enchantment
Optional
Resurrection signet
There you get some meat shields with some exploading damage (Not as much if you were 12+3+1 death magic mind you) and mark of pain to help your sins damage. Signet for survivability/energy, res sig for.....accidents, rip enchantment is more for some areas than others, and optional is for a secondary utility or just more curses/death magic.
I put down flesh golem as an optional elite becuase even though I love Aura of the lich, its sometimes good to have a pretty healthy meat shield running around instead of more that will jsut die instantly.
You can run a MM/curses hybrid in HM if you want, and i don't see why not. Most MM heros go MM/prot or restoration, but instead of protection to your allies you can just give him more damage skills from curses to help your dps. Granted I would suggest having a support hero somewhere but you can do it.
Just an idea.
Although with your hero's being spellcasters im not so sure the mark of pain I put in there would help enough to merit putting curses in. A smite and a E/mo prot isn't bad, but I prefer ray of judgement over signet of Judgement. There will be better builds out there for you to run, but its not particularly terrible.
Not Listing it Here
Not at my home computer so I can't post the builds, but I have tried various hero combinations (minus discord and mop, cause I don't have fun playing them).
I have completed vanquishing EotN and Nightfall and am working on factions now. For these, I took a savannah heat/glyph of sac nuker (E/Me), a Jagged Bones MM bomber (N/Mo) and either an SoS Rit or WoH monk (the last one changes depending on whether I am vanquishing on my Rit or my Monk, so that my hero group is a monk, nec, ele and rit (I am either the Rit or Monk - since I am working on getting both to GWAMM). For hench I bring the earth ele and the 2 monks. The last slot is either my wife getting credit afk on her ele, or I bring the fire, domination or illusion hench (depending on the area) if it's an area she has already done. I did all of EotN with her afk, so it can be done with the 7 I listed above. Pain inverter is a life saver for things that hit hard.
I would also note that I don't use cons or dp removers since my wife is working on those titles first so she gets all the sweets and party items. I have never had a problem finishing the vanquish, although there were a few times in Sacnoth I was getting worried (yay for PI on the eles who died killing my spirits).
Hope this helps. I never saw any reason to run the flavor of the day/week etc. For 4 years I have stuck with the thought that you can win almost any PVE fight with a good nuke and some minions. The spirit buff for rits has sped up the clears though.
Good luck.
I have completed vanquishing EotN and Nightfall and am working on factions now. For these, I took a savannah heat/glyph of sac nuker (E/Me), a Jagged Bones MM bomber (N/Mo) and either an SoS Rit or WoH monk (the last one changes depending on whether I am vanquishing on my Rit or my Monk, so that my hero group is a monk, nec, ele and rit (I am either the Rit or Monk - since I am working on getting both to GWAMM). For hench I bring the earth ele and the 2 monks. The last slot is either my wife getting credit afk on her ele, or I bring the fire, domination or illusion hench (depending on the area) if it's an area she has already done. I did all of EotN with her afk, so it can be done with the 7 I listed above. Pain inverter is a life saver for things that hit hard.
I would also note that I don't use cons or dp removers since my wife is working on those titles first so she gets all the sweets and party items. I have never had a problem finishing the vanquish, although there were a few times in Sacnoth I was getting worried (yay for PI on the eles who died killing my spirits).
Hope this helps. I never saw any reason to run the flavor of the day/week etc. For 4 years I have stuck with the thought that you can win almost any PVE fight with a good nuke and some minions. The spirit buff for rits has sped up the clears though.
Good luck.
cognophile
Looks like you're already committed to curses with mark of pain. Spiteful spirit, reckless haste, enfeebling blood, foul feast, and plague sending are a few other skills you might find useful on a curses hero.
My normal preference is to use heroes for damage dealing, so I'd suggest dropping the prot ele to take a discordway or sabway minion bomber instead. Depending on what you're fighting against, a spirit spammer might be another option, possibly to replace the RoJ smiter.
My normal preference is to use heroes for damage dealing, so I'd suggest dropping the prot ele to take a discordway or sabway minion bomber instead. Depending on what you're fighting against, a spirit spammer might be another option, possibly to replace the RoJ smiter.
kupp
Short answer: Minion Bomber. Spec some attributes in curses for MoP and whatever else you want to bring, but as powerful as Curses are on it's own I wouldn't give up minions for nothing. Meat shield + high damage output w/ condition spreading via Death Nova beats whatever damage curses might do, and I can't stress enough how the meat shield aspect is incredibely useful in HM. Obviously both would be great, but IMO a simple 12+9+9 attribute spread would do the trick if energy isn't a problem.
Kosman
What do you suggest? Aura of the Lich or Flesh Golem?
Karate Jesus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosman
What do you suggest? Aura of the Lich or Flesh Golem?
AoL by far. It's abusive in PvE right now (especially with masochism).
Sethellington
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajc2123
How about something like this
11 +1 +1 death
11+1 curses
8 soul reaping (add a minor rune if you want >_>) The attributes are bad. If you don't want to run a sup rune, you atleast have to run a major with these atts because if you're an MM you should really have an even number of points in death for the minion cap.
11 +1 +1 death
11+1 curses
8 soul reaping (add a minor rune if you want >_>) The attributes are bad. If you don't want to run a sup rune, you atleast have to run a major with these atts because if you're an MM you should really have an even number of points in death for the minion cap.
Kosman
ac1inferno
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:N/any_Minion_Bomber
There's a good MM build for heroes with several options.
There's a good MM build for heroes with several options.
Life Bringing
I would drop the RoJ and replace it with an SoS rit. Something along the lines of:
12+1+1 channeling
12 smite
3+1 spawning
SoS
Ancestors
Splinter
Spirit Siphon
Castigation sig
smite hex/condi
Strength of Honor
FomF
That's one of the most valuable bars you can bring when playing a melée char. I would really consider giving scythes another try, because scythe+splinter is pure sex.
Now, I know people are starting to say ER eles are the best thing ever, but I honestly still prefer my N/Rt. My typical bar is usually a hybrid between many things.
12 resto
10+1 curses
8+1 soul
1.Pain of disenchant/Corrupt enchant/Spiteful Spirit
2.Enfeebling Blood
3.Shadow of Fear
4.MBaS
5.Spirit Light
6.PwK
7.Life
8.FomF
Onto your original question. Imo, an MM would be more effective than a curses support, and you could slot in mop, etc if you needed to. I generally run my MM with prots(Aegis, prot spirit, SoA), but having an ER removes the need for those. Jagged bones, AotL, or just about any other elite, necro or not, works great on a minion bomber.
12+1+1 channeling
12 smite
3+1 spawning
SoS
Ancestors
Splinter
Spirit Siphon
Castigation sig
smite hex/condi
Strength of Honor
FomF
That's one of the most valuable bars you can bring when playing a melée char. I would really consider giving scythes another try, because scythe+splinter is pure sex.
Now, I know people are starting to say ER eles are the best thing ever, but I honestly still prefer my N/Rt. My typical bar is usually a hybrid between many things.
12 resto
10+1 curses
8+1 soul
1.Pain of disenchant/Corrupt enchant/Spiteful Spirit
2.Enfeebling Blood
3.Shadow of Fear
4.MBaS
5.Spirit Light
6.PwK
7.Life
8.FomF
Onto your original question. Imo, an MM would be more effective than a curses support, and you could slot in mop, etc if you needed to. I generally run my MM with prots(Aegis, prot spirit, SoA), but having an ER removes the need for those. Jagged bones, AotL, or just about any other elite, necro or not, works great on a minion bomber.
MasterSasori
Try this
N/Me
12+1+3 Death
8+1 Curse
10+1 Soul Reaping
3 Domination Magic
Aura of the Lich
Animate Bone Minion
Enfeebling Blood
Power Return
Cry of Frustration
Masochism
Death Nova
Signet of Lost Souls
Spear (+5 e, +30 hp/20% enchant) + Shield (20% shorter daze, +30 hp)
You can run Barbs/Rip Enchantment/Shadow of Fear instead of CoF
N/Me
12+1+3 Death
8+1 Curse
10+1 Soul Reaping
3 Domination Magic
Aura of the Lich
Animate Bone Minion
Enfeebling Blood
Power Return
Cry of Frustration
Masochism
Death Nova
Signet of Lost Souls
Spear (+5 e, +30 hp/20% enchant) + Shield (20% shorter daze, +30 hp)
You can run Barbs/Rip Enchantment/Shadow of Fear instead of CoF
Amy Awien
N/Me, interesting use of your MM.
Drop the RoJ smiter, then you can bring a MM and a Curses necro. Why the E/Mo protter, I thought henchies were for healing and heroes were for killing?
But the standard MM's (on pvx) usually have a few slots free that could be used for a couple if Curses. Packing MM, Curses and Dom on one bar shows nice skills in bar compression
Drop the RoJ smiter, then you can bring a MM and a Curses necro. Why the E/Mo protter, I thought henchies were for healing and heroes were for killing?
But the standard MM's (on pvx) usually have a few slots free that could be used for a couple if Curses. Packing MM, Curses and Dom on one bar shows nice skills in bar compression
Trader of Secrets
I would say MM/bomber cuz it provides some meat shields and cover for the rest of the party while also dealing some damage along the way.
Kosman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amy Awien
N/Me, interesting use of your MM.
Drop the RoJ smiter, then you can bring a MM and a Curses necro. Why the E/Mo protter, I thought henchies were for healing and heroes were for killing?
But the standard MM's (on pvx) usually have a few slots free that could be used for a couple if Curses. Packing MM, Curses and Dom on one bar shows nice skills in bar compression Are you kidding? Healer henches are useless in Hard Mode. Why does for eg. the E/Prot exist in that case?
Drop the RoJ smiter, then you can bring a MM and a Curses necro. Why the E/Mo protter, I thought henchies were for healing and heroes were for killing?
But the standard MM's (on pvx) usually have a few slots free that could be used for a couple if Curses. Packing MM, Curses and Dom on one bar shows nice skills in bar compression Are you kidding? Healer henches are useless in Hard Mode. Why does for eg. the E/Prot exist in that case?
Eragon Zarroc
MM bomber. gives you more bodies to take pressure off of your team. if it is a low body count area though, swap to the curse.
nightschroud
here's what i usually run when i play my sin ^^
me A/X
- dagger mastery 12 ( 10+2 )
- dealy arts 12 (11+1)
- critical strikes 11 (10+1)
- critical eye ( optional slot really =p )
- critical agility
- assasins promise
- deaths charge
- "you move like a dwarf"
- falling lotus strike
- critical strike
- "finish him"
loads of fun with this build , teleport through mobs like assasins were supposed to do , backstab ^^ em lol
hero's
Xandra RT/X
-channeling 15 (12 +2+1 )
-restoration 12 (11+1 )
-spawning power 7 (6 +1 )
- spirits siphon
- signet of spirits
- bloodsong
- painfull bond
- splinter weapon
- spirit light
- life
- portective was kaolai
- pretty usefull to have this one around ^^ , 50damage splinter weapons is godlike honestly ( this is a verry versitile spot , u can put the E/Mo protector here , just give the MM splinter weapon then ^^
- Livia N/Mo
-death magic 15 (12+2+1 )
-soul reaping 10 (9+1)
-protective prayers 9
- Jagged bones (<--- best hero mm elite i find it to be , but thats personal choice )
- animated shambling horror ( with jagged bones , 2 minions for the price of 1 ^_- )
- animated bone minions ( 2 minions for the price of 1 alrdy =p )
- death nova ( .....kaboom ..... nuff said ...... )
- blood of the master ( don't want the minions to die to soon eh ^^ )
- protective spirit (<----- BIG MUST HAVE IN HM )
- aegis ( fun to chain with prot hench most of the time ^^ )
- signet of lost souls ( it helps ,cause hero's pwn with it , but basicly optional )
a mm is the most helpfull hero to have along with you , meatshields + damage , and fo every group you defeat , a new army rises
Olias N/Rt
-curses 15 (12+2+1 )
-soul reaping 13 (12+1)
-restoration 3
- spitefull spirit ( <3 this skill )
- mark of pain
- barbs ( <3 this skill )
- defile defence ( block is anoying as melee -_- )
- enfeebling blood ( make enemy mellee useless ^_- )
- rip enchantments ( you can never go wrong with anti enchantment )
- foul feast ( <----- insta blind removal service , i love this skill with my warior <3 )
- death pac signet ( stuff happens xD )
i always enjoy myself with this setup , curses + minions = you just won pve xD
u should definetly try this out , cause mm are a must and curses are to good to miss out on , especially if your a melee class
me A/X
- dagger mastery 12 ( 10+2 )
- dealy arts 12 (11+1)
- critical strikes 11 (10+1)
- critical eye ( optional slot really =p )
- critical agility
- assasins promise
- deaths charge
- "you move like a dwarf"
- falling lotus strike
- critical strike
- "finish him"
loads of fun with this build , teleport through mobs like assasins were supposed to do , backstab ^^ em lol
hero's
Xandra RT/X
-channeling 15 (12 +2+1 )
-restoration 12 (11+1 )
-spawning power 7 (6 +1 )
- spirits siphon
- signet of spirits
- bloodsong
- painfull bond
- splinter weapon
- spirit light
- life
- portective was kaolai
- pretty usefull to have this one around ^^ , 50damage splinter weapons is godlike honestly ( this is a verry versitile spot , u can put the E/Mo protector here , just give the MM splinter weapon then ^^
- Livia N/Mo
-death magic 15 (12+2+1 )
-soul reaping 10 (9+1)
-protective prayers 9
- Jagged bones (<--- best hero mm elite i find it to be , but thats personal choice )
- animated shambling horror ( with jagged bones , 2 minions for the price of 1 ^_- )
- animated bone minions ( 2 minions for the price of 1 alrdy =p )
- death nova ( .....kaboom ..... nuff said ...... )
- blood of the master ( don't want the minions to die to soon eh ^^ )
- protective spirit (<----- BIG MUST HAVE IN HM )
- aegis ( fun to chain with prot hench most of the time ^^ )
- signet of lost souls ( it helps ,cause hero's pwn with it , but basicly optional )
a mm is the most helpfull hero to have along with you , meatshields + damage , and fo every group you defeat , a new army rises
Olias N/Rt
-curses 15 (12+2+1 )
-soul reaping 13 (12+1)
-restoration 3
- spitefull spirit ( <3 this skill )
- mark of pain
- barbs ( <3 this skill )
- defile defence ( block is anoying as melee -_- )
- enfeebling blood ( make enemy mellee useless ^_- )
- rip enchantments ( you can never go wrong with anti enchantment )
- foul feast ( <----- insta blind removal service , i love this skill with my warior <3 )
- death pac signet ( stuff happens xD )
i always enjoy myself with this setup , curses + minions = you just won pve xD
u should definetly try this out , cause mm are a must and curses are to good to miss out on , especially if your a melee class
Chthon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosman
Since Im pretty sick of "calling", I´ve decided to give up Discord. I´ve looked around a bit and decided to use an E/Mo Prot and and a Monk Smite with RoJ for general PvE. By the way, since you are reading this, do you think it is a good setup? - I am an assassin with daggers (hate the scythe). So here is my point: I need a 3rd hero. I know conditionsand hexes are important as hell, especially in Hard Mode. But, I would like to have a MM as well. Is there like a good combination of these attributes and if there is, could you please post the build?
Thanks in advance for you suggestions,
/Lee
EDIT: I have looked around at PvX but I want to hear your opinions.
For starters, I want to change your smite hero. First, make it N/Mo instead of Mo/X. Going necro is going to give it the energy to maintain SoH on you and another melee or two, while still having enough energy to use the rest of its bar, AND access to Orders (either OoV or OoP+DF). (Notice we're playing to your strengths here with SoH and Orders adding a lot of armor-ignoring damage to your quick attack speed and smarter-than-a-henchman target selection.) Second, think really seriously about dropping RoJ altogether. Why? Because the AI casts this spell without regard to whether there's a good clump around its target or whether its target is moving. That leads to a lot of misses. Even when the AI does put RoJ in the right place, monsters now flee it in HM. That opens space for either OoV or a utility elite. Fill out the rest of the bar with hex/condition removal from smite or monk unlinked and necro utility like enchant removal as needed, and possibly rez.
Now, let's look at survivability. You've already got a ER hero, and you're a dagger sin, so you should be A/W with SY!. Add a monk hench and you should already have enough survivability for most areas. If you feel you need more survivability, these are some of your options:
Finally, let's look at damage.
The curse guy synergizes with you. He's got Barbs and MoP and he'll usually put them on what you're hitting. On top of that, he may have some decent damage on his own if you gave him something like SS for his elite (since he doesn't exactly grasp the intricacies of AP).
The minion guy does very little damage on his own. With a curse guy also present, you get lots of Barbs/MoP triggers. Without one, damage is mostly limited to Death Nova, since the minions themselves don't hit very hard against high armor.
If you had 4 hero slots, the obvious choice would be to run one of each. But, since you have to choose, the curse guy is going to do more for you by himself - unless you're a really terrible sin who doesn't trigger curses or you really need the minions as meat shields.
What about combining minions and curses in the same build? I'm not a huge fan of this, but you can try. The first problem is that you're going to have to choose which attribute to short, even though both benefit a lot from being at 16. Second, you're going to lose pretty much all of your utility in the process.
Arrogant Bastard
On a melee, I recommend using this hero setup:
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Pv...Submit+Q uery
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Pv...Submit+Q uery
Chthon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrogant Bastard
On a melee, I recommend using this hero setup:
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Pv...Submit+Q uery After some thought, that might be superior to N/Mo Orders+SoH for H+H teams that don't have very many physicals (less than 3), or have to rely on the hench physicals (who aren't very good at spamming packets).
I would, however, drop Ancestor's (armor-sensitive lightning damage) in favor of something else. Rez might be in order since this is a Rt midliner.
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Pv...Submit+Q uery After some thought, that might be superior to N/Mo Orders+SoH for H+H teams that don't have very many physicals (less than 3), or have to rely on the hench physicals (who aren't very good at spamming packets).
I would, however, drop Ancestor's (armor-sensitive lightning damage) in favor of something else. Rez might be in order since this is a Rt midliner.
Daesu
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrogant Bastard