Need Help Understanding Energy and Energy Regeneration

I completed the Norn Fighting Tournament with an Any/Rt build. I absolutely loved it. I thought I would try my hand at solo farming bone charm's in Rhea's Crater with an R/Rt as a Spirit Farmer. Over the last several days I have collected several green weapons, a few gold ones and many, many bone charms.

My problem is energy, energy sets, or energy regeneration.

I was using a high energy set +15/-1 x2 plus an extra +12 energy. Over time I collected loot/2nd set with +12 energy.

I cast my spirits using the high energy set, then pull the monsters into them. I would cast the specific hexes to increase damage usually dropping my energy to zero.

It is at this point that I am clueless, it appears that using the high energy set makes your energy balance go negative when you swap it out. My next thought was to time how long it takes to regen energy with the different weapon/energy sets. I decided to post here.

Will someone please explain energy regeneration and the best way to recover from zero energy? Thanks.

Full radiant and a +20 staff (Insightful mod + Hale&Hearty inscript) is your best energy management.

High energy sets are generally not a good idea to use.


EDIT: You can recover your energy but not swapping to another set that will ower your energy pool or not using it at all.

Each pip of energy regen will give you 1 energy every 3 seconds, so as a ranger you gain 1 energy every second (without the +15/-1s). The only way for a R/Rt spirit spammer to recover energy when it hits zero is to swap away any -1 item and wait. If you want better energy managment either make your expertise higher and/or switch some skill for spirit's siphon.

eRegen: 1 pip equals 1/3points of energy per sec.

Increased-max-energy items and negative energy: The best way to conceptualize what happens goes something like this: Imagine that your energy bar as a ruler that extends infinitely in both positive and negative numbers, but all of the negatives and most of the positives are hidden from your view. When when equip an increased-max-energy item that adds X max energy, you expand the view to show X more spaces to the left, and re-number the ruler starting with what used to be -X as the new zero. When you remove the item, those X spaces off to the left get hidden again, and you re-re-number the ruler to put zero back where it was originally. If you spent your way below the original zero, your current energy will be negative (and hidden from view) until you regen back above zero.

Life works the same way, only there are additional rules about whether or not having negative life also makes you dead.

About +15e/-1eRegen items: These are not general purpose items. The lost eRegen is far too high a price to pay for a higher max energy.

Instead, these items are used for a secondary weapon set that allows you to get off one or two more emergency spells at a critical moment, even though you are at zero energy. You switch to the +15e/-1eRegen weapon set, promptly cast what you're going to cast, then immediately switch back so that you don't incur the -1eRegen penalty any longer than you have to. Since doing this pushes you deeper and deeper into negative energy, you should always think very hard about whether you really, really need to cast that spell right now.

About max-energy versus eRegen: Having more maximum energy will not solve your energy problems. Max-energy, once spent, is spent. Adding +5 max energy will enable you to cast one additional 5e spell before hitting zero, nothing more. The correct solution to energy problems is to use zealous weapons that give you energy when you hit things (if you use a martial weapon) or skills that increase you eRegen, give you energy directly, or discount the cost of your skills. This is what people mean when they say "max energy is NOT energy management." It is also why the second poster is absolutely dead wrong and should be ignored.

After I posted my question, I found my stop watch and the results match the replies. My mistake (other than using a high energy set) was not to swap it out when waiting for energy regen.

As a Ranger/Ritualist (using my stop watch), it takes 90 seconds to recover 30 energy with +30e/-2 eRegen equipped, but only 30 seconds to recover 30 energy with nothing equipped.

I plan to test Siphon Spirits with Signet of Spirits. The math suggest you might be able to cast Signet of Spirts (summoning 3 spirits), then Siphon Spirits 3 times and recover just less than 30e in about 10 seconds which is less than 30 seconds.

You don't need a stopwatch for that.

1 pip of energy regen = 1 energy every 3 seconds.
3 pips of energy regen = 3 energy every 3 seconds = 1 energy every second.

Spirit Siphon is incredible energy management for a spirit spammer. Just be sure to use it on a different spirit each cast. At 12 channeling magic, the net gain per cast (on a full spirit) is 8 energy.

this is the opposite of good advice.

none of what you suggested is actual energy management, just ways to increase your effective max energy. on top of that, the one method of increasing max energy which you advised against is in fact the most effective. there's no reason (other than not knowing how to weapon swap) not to have a high energy set for when you need it while leaving your insignias and other sets to defensive or casting efficiency mods.

having said that i'll admit the OP probably doesn't know how to weapon swap efficiently. still, it's better to teach him how than to advise against it without any explanation.

OP: use regular sets until you're low on energy. then switch to your high energy set, cast something, and switch back to a defensive set between casts so you take less damage and have full energy regen. this allows you to expand your energy pool with minimal loss from the -2 regen of a high energy set (you only lose 2 energy for every 3 seconds you spend casting in your high set, a far lower price than not having the additional energy at all).

Also, remember that expertise lowers the cost of your rituals (i.e. spirits) so you might find more convenient to drop some points from elsewhere to add into it (it should also be safe to add a sup expertise rune, at least in most circumstances).

Zealous weapons are only really useful if you are using a weapon that can hit multiple targets (either alone, or combined with spells) and gain multiple energies. Normally, the -1 regen cancels the benefits of the energy gain.

I haven't used a R/Rt spirit spammer, so I can't comment on energy use with one, but my Rt/x spirit spammer does not have energy problems. And that's with using a Bogroot Staff (because I like it) and 2 Radiants (and maybe an Attunement.)

And yes, max energy is not the same as energy management. Energy management has to do with the rate of energy use and recovery. One of the simplest methods of energy management is to make use of low energy skills and signets where possible.

You're telling him exactly what OP problem was, his energy going below 0. With an efficient energy pool, you shouldn't have the need to switch to a high set.

Yes this is correct. If you use a 42 energy set (2x 15/-1 and 12 from focus), use all your energy, then swap to, let's say, a 12 energy set (just the 12 from a focus for example), you will have -30 energy.

Theres a skill where you can steal all the energy from spirits (Spirit Siphon). You get a percentage of it, as far as I know energy is useless for spirits anyway. Just my two pennies worth, I never consider energy to be an issue being a necro an all

Have you ever played any melee profession? As long as you are hitting things, Sword, Axe, Daggers, and Scythe will gain energy on average(absent external factors like block, miss, moving to target) if you have a +33% IAS, or in the case of daggers and scythes, when you hit multiple times. Zealous on a spear will even gain you energy. Now putting Zealous on a hornbow without an IAS or multiple hit skill would be a bit silly.

-1 energy regeneration = 1 energy point lost every 3 seconds. If you hit something in that 3 seconds, you don't lose energy. If you hit more than once in 3 seconds, you gain energy. Zealous is that simple.

Gee no Sparky, I've never played a melee character. (and if you believe that, I have things to sell you. )

Zealous is overrated and overused.