Preliminary Skill Update Notes: Feb 19 - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Lord Dagon

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2009

Inside the Oblivion Gate

The Imperial Guards of Istan[TIGE]

E/Me

20 Feb 2010 at 01:19 - 41

well this disapointed me greatly...
they didnt even bother to tell us hwo they would change the MAJOR nerfs everyone wants to know( SF/600/smite and now Obi?(im sad about this one))
I liked alot of what they did w/ this but im still really ticked they are messing w/ obisidian flesh...(a.k.a say good bye to vaetirr farming and since stoneflesh armor is part of the obi build im going to say goodbye stoneflesh aura and raptor farming).

sad they are messing w/ my ele which i told them not to, but at least they are getting rid of shadow form.(also, just dont mess with eles.. they are really the only class i know alot of my ppl in my alliance play as... i dont want a dead alliance

Yawgmoth

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2005

20 Feb 2010 at 01:21 - 42

Great news there, this update looks at least half amazing! Just shame that in all that extremely long time they didn't touch ALL important issues, so after this one there will be a great need for another one of just as massive proportions. Shortly: Mesmers and Eles (besides ER) in HM PvE are quite useless, Dervs could also use some love. And if you're hitting Obsidian Flesh then also look at solo rits being able to practically vanquish at least half areas in game themselves, completely unmatched by any other class (after sf nerf).

jazilla

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2006

Guernsey Milking Coalition[MiLk]

E/Me

20 Feb 2010 at 01:28 - 43

I like what I see so far. Blood stuff looks fun as does the pet/hammer/tactics stuff. people will stop whining when they find builds with the new toys on PvX. Then they will start complaining again as usual when they aren't getting as much money from the drops because everyone is running the same thing. Ahh the skill update cycle is so fresh before it's playable. I also love all of the whining about stuff that was said, "Isn't set in stone" yet.

Ghost Dog

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2008

W/

20 Feb 2010 at 01:32 - 44

Looks good actually.

Turbo Ginsu

I despise facebook

Join Date: Feb 2008

Australia

Meeting of the Lost Minds

Me/

20 Feb 2010 at 01:33 - 45

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazilla

I like what I see so far. Blood stuff looks fun as does the pet/hammer/tactics stuff. people will stop whining when they find builds with the new toys on PvX. Then they will start complaining again as usual when they aren't getting as much money from the drops because everyone is running the same thing. Ahh the skill update cycle is so fresh before it's playable. I also love all of the whining about stuff that was said, "Isn't set in stone" yet.

Must be great to be able to set yourself up on a pedestal from where you may gaze around at your lands and followers and judge anyone with the slightest complaint or otherwise as "Whining". Did you ever stop to think that peoples fave classes, hell after 5 years probably their only reasons for still being in GW, actually matter to them?

Probably not, because when the time comes to get ticked and grizzle, it's only people like you with your unimpeachable holier-than-thou moral high ground that are deemed worthy to raise concerns, because obviously your whine is by far a finer whine than that of the common peons..

moriz

??ber t??k-n??sh'??n

Join Date: Jan 2006

Canada

R/

20 Feb 2010 at 01:35 - 46

anet should just make cripshot a 1s recharge again. the fast arrow was borderline broken (longbow cripshot+high ground=spirit range snaring), while the slightly longer cripple duration really doesn't change much.

The Josip

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2009

Me/

20 Feb 2010 at 01:38 - 47

It nice that mesmers finally got some buffs after 5 years.

Oh wait..

mage767

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2006

USA

LOVE

Me/E

20 Feb 2010 at 01:42 - 48

Looking forward to the nerfs and buffs.

Dont Nerf The Perma

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2009

A/D

20 Feb 2010 at 01:57 - 49

Why the SoS nerf? That made spirit spamming so much fun.

instanceskiller

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2008

Myst

A/

20 Feb 2010 at 01:58 - 50

Firstly, wow, Anet surprised me, I was expecting another update anytime soon so this was good. Thank you Anet. Second, I only looked at the Rt's and nec updates but since I rarely play necs anymore the rt update just dwarfed the whole thing for me. But wow!!!! I am now very excited for this update and and whilst I will be missing shadow form, I won't qq for it (much at least) since I rarely play now anyways let alone farm. Also I think it will still be very use-able since they seem to not want to nerf it so as to make everyone 'migrate to another overpowered build', but just make it a little/lot less abuseable.

OutlawFMA

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2008

Alabama

Legends Of The Lost Souls (LOLS)

E/

20 Feb 2010 at 02:02 - 51

Really liking the changes so far with the warrior dealing with hammer and tactics.

Raynb

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2007

20 Feb 2010 at 02:06 - 52

Since this is a preview I wont complain NOW about the Mesmer only appearing in this skill list as a mention in a dervish skill nerf (and the metion was to a mesmer skill, not even the name "mesmer" itself is showing up there), but if A.net comes up in 25th with no mesmers changes or those nerfs in skills that nobody uses... Well I will honestly will be without words about the (lack) of competence in this company.

So please, please A.net, dont let me down on 25th and show me that i'm wrong in not believing you people.

Shadow Feathers

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2010

20 Feb 2010 at 02:09 - 53

Definately be playing around with some of these on my warrior and may even go grab a hammer for once and try bashing things instead of slicing them with a sword. Not much into the casters so can't say much about the changes to Blood magic.

Looks like there will be some new tanking builds for a warrior as well , should be some intersting things happening in Ft Aspenwood in the near future.

wetwillyhip

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2006

USA, Southern California, Orange County

Tyrian Elements [TyE]

R/Mo

20 Feb 2010 at 02:12 - 54

i actually quite liked and used tactics even tho many other wars don't... this will be even better

fun woot. and please don't touch 600smite pleeaasseee.

oh and i agree with many others... 5 months only for this???....doh.

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

20 Feb 2010 at 02:13 - 55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tobi Madera

well this disapointed me greatly...
they didnt even bother to tell us hwo they would change the MAJOR nerfs everyone wants to know( SF/600/smite

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiki

As mentioned above, this list of changes is not final. Additional adjustments, additions, and deletions may take place during our final week of testing. Thanks for reading!

i think it's obvious they didn't mention what they were doing to those skills because they haven't fully decided what the changes are going to be. They still have a week to make final adjustments and such. Knowing this community, the last thing they want to do is say they're going to change x to y, then change it to z at the last second.

As for the whole 'it took 5 months' thing - you do realize that this isn't the only thing the teams been working on, right? Yeah, it's delayed, but it's not like it took them 5 months of only working on the skill balance 24/7 to do.

On another note, I'm sure the next thing the live team will address is dervishes and mesmers in PvE. They can't focus on everything at once, because when they try they take forever and usually fail.

MagmaRed

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Mar 2007

Our Crabs Know True [LOVE]

R/

20 Feb 2010 at 02:15 - 56

Very detailed info. Except for the things people are concerned with. SF, 600/Smite, and of course a lack of info on anything for Derv and Mez..... but at least the stuff will shake things up some for a bit.

Orry

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2010

20 Feb 2010 at 02:22 - 57

Quote:

Originally Posted by own age myname

Sorry to say, but "balanced" is not coming back anytime soon. People will just make a new fast build, and the farmers will migrate to that. Especially since Obby tank is being nerfed, the essential "tank" skill for balanced teams.

Balanced+Tank? Does not compute.

Spiritz

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2007

DMFC

20 Feb 2010 at 02:23 - 58

It looks funny i agree drunkard - even funnier when you think .. nerf perma and ppl migrate to 600/smite and obby so lets nerf all 3 at once and give test krewe another 5 month vacation till we do next nerf lol.

I have 1 question tho - anet nerfs 3 farming professions ( sin/monk and ele ) and on what skills they are nerfing and buffing - how comes 1 skill isnt touched but widely used ( or abused in anet terms ) in raptors ? yes im talking about mark of pain .
Are anet going to wait a month or 2 then kill w/n raptor farming as w/n and a/e are widely used there?
Btw w/n dont take offence im not anti w/n but surprised and shocked they are not being hit

Devastating Flames

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2008

The Canthan Defenders

E/Mo

20 Feb 2010 at 02:27 - 59

all i got to say is that it's about time sf is gonna get nerfed and i hope it kills sf. since those perma runs the game got to easier for ppl and to many cry babies have shown up for thoses stupid fail speed clears. i am glad it's done witht eh sf runs and i sure do hope all the runners leave make hte game a bit more frendly then and you wont be able to jsut pay a runner thier will be teams once agian to do more stuff ppl will actually have to use some kinda of skill not just wait for the perma to do so. Cheers For anet

drkn

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2009

Wroc??aw, Poland

Midnight Mayhem

Me/

20 Feb 2010 at 02:30 - 60

Quote:

On another note, I'm sure the next thing the live team will address is dervishes and mesmers in PvE.

so, mesmer love in next six months? sure...
some now would be better than none for years.

i don't find rt buffs necessary at all, since rits already run spirits, splinter barrage (better than rangers...), resto, 330 and all kind of hybrids. and apart the fact that every class can run spiritmancer, i thought that rits were the most innerly balanced and playable class since buff to binding rituals.
seriously, have they needed a buff in high-end pve THAT MUCH so that dervs/paras/mesmers have to wait?

Cuilan

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2008

Me/

20 Feb 2010 at 02:34 - 61

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

I'm sure the next thing the live team will address is dervishes and mesmers in PvE. They can't focus on everything at once, because when they try they take forever and usually fail.

You mean the next update and not this upcoming one? It won't be this update because of "This update is targeted at several areas:" part. They had years to change things.

Balance includes all professions. That's the point of balance updates.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dont Nerf The Perma

Why the SoS nerf? That made spirit spamming so much fun.

Because it's too easy to solo-clear a lot of areas of the game. See SoS based UW solo builds and UW duo builds as proof.

Zesty

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2009

Mo/

20 Feb 2010 at 02:36 - 62

Such narrow minded people. It's unfortunate that you overlook some of these skill updates and pass some off as useless. People will understand though as time goes on. Theres already 2 pretty retardedly overpowered melee combinations that just opened up, not considering the hammer buffs, that has synergy with the new blood skills via an orders necro. Beyond that the yet to be announced rit buffs should be very significant based on the skills they are actually messing with.

Let's just put it this way, if you have experience with non-gimmick(sf, ursan, 600/smite) builds in the elite areas you would see where these updates come into play. Sadly if you continue to think that invincible tanks are the only way to go you are going to be doing fow for the rest of your GW career, seeing as that is probly the only place tank and spank with a Defy Pain warrior will probably be efficient.

Tom Swift

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2007

20 Feb 2010 at 02:43 - 63

Quote:

In tackling Shadow Form, we decided to take a larger look at the issues involved. We didn’t want to simply nerf Shadow Form and cause a mass migration to another overpowered build, only to nerf that after players start using it. It’s not possible to predict all of the clever combinations that players may invent, but we’d like to establish clearer guidelines for ourselves and for players as to what is and isn't acceptable. This should help us with any future buffs or nerfs related to end game PvE.

Based on our testing, observation and discussion, we expect to make changes to Shadow Form, Obsidian Flesh, and to a skill or two used in 600-Smite builds.

I'm sorry but this sounds like they are making preparations to be able to say next week,

"establishing effective guidelines concerning sf and other overpowered builds wound up being such a large task that we were not able to adequately address it in this build and look forward to doing so at some un specified future date"

Bet a mini harpy that's what happens

Turbo Ginsu

I despise facebook

Join Date: Feb 2008

Australia

Meeting of the Lost Minds

Me/

20 Feb 2010 at 02:56 - 64

Let's just hope, Ark, that the Mesmer and Dervish addressing isn't undertaken after GW2 is released. That's the real issue I'm sure we lovers of both are actually trying to put across I think.

cosyfiep

are we there yet?

Join Date: Dec 2005

in a land far far away

guild? I am supposed to have a guild?

Rt/

20 Feb 2010 at 03:12 - 65

guess I enjoyed playing my rit a little too much, back to the mule group for her after this goes thru.
My hubby will be pleased that the hammer is finally getting some love (he likes to play a hammer warrior)...
also nice (if it gets in ON the 25th) that they FINALLY came thru on one update .....now if they can just keep it up (yes virginia there is a santa claus, right?)

zhongzh

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2008

Temple of Ages

Mo/

20 Feb 2010 at 03:50 - 66

Whatever happened to minimizing the number of pvp-pve split skills?

Ugh

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2009

R/

20 Feb 2010 at 03:58 - 67

No changes to dervishes, mesmers, or rangers. Meh.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dont Nerf The Perma

Why the SoS nerf? That made spirit spamming so much fun.

Did you really ever use it on recharge anyway? I didn't. And if you were talking about damage, it was reduced by 2.

It was quite a mild nerf.

Jarge

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2006

England

Queen and Country [QC]

P/W

20 Feb 2010 at 03:59 - 68

Quote:

Originally Posted by code

Kill his godmode for all you want but don't touch my godmode

Haithar, I fixed your quote

jazilla

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2006

Guernsey Milking Coalition[MiLk]

E/Me

20 Feb 2010 at 04:00 - 69

yeah idk what's with all of the rit whining. the buffs are pretty amazing and i suspect we will see them toned down in March...of 2011.

xDusT II

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Melbourne

20 Feb 2010 at 04:06 - 70

Deflect Arrows lasts too long...

Jensy

Site Contributor

Join Date: Apr 2007

Phoenix, Arizona

Blinkie Ponie Armie [bpa]

N/Mo

20 Feb 2010 at 04:13 - 71

From working on the skill balance in the TK, I can say that it's not as easy as it sounds :P Each change, no matter how small it seems, travels through the game to every monster, npc, etc. All of that has to be factored in, as well as how the updated skills synergize with other skills to create potential headaches in PvP and PvE. It's a long process. It's not "oh lol, let's just make X do Y instead of Z." Believe what you will, I know you all will anyway, but do know that a lot of work has been put into this. Oh, sure, you can say "work, for THAT?" but uh... you being personally disappointed does not mean that the work was in vain.

Not everyone will be happy. One person being happy, is another being pissed off. That's the way anything works, not just in GW. This skill balance will do what it does; it's not going to walk your dog, it's not going to do your laundry. It's not going to be everything for everyone. No skill balance ever will be :P

Eragon Zarroc

Atra estern?? ono thelduin

Join Date: Jan 2008

Madness Incarnate

[Duo]

W/P

20 Feb 2010 at 04:18 - 72

interesting stuff O_O curious to see what they do with the invulnerability tanks O_O

Voice of Reason

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2010

20 Feb 2010 at 04:19 - 73

Make BHA 10 energy, 5 recharge, 1...6 duration.

Oh, and fix dervishes, mesmers, and nature rituals.

Please?

Shayne Hawke

Departed from Tyria

Join Date: May 2007

Clan Dethryche [dth]

R/

20 Feb 2010 at 04:30 - 74

I'm glad that prelim notes are being put out like this. Though there's a valid enough reason with the proximity to the mAT, I'd hope that prelim updates like this can continue in the future, just for kicks.

Captain Bulldozer

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2008

Servants of the Dragon Flames [SODF]

20 Feb 2010 at 04:38 - 75

Some of these changes look ok, but I will admit that this also seems to leave out a LOT, while fixing a lot of minor skills to be slightly more attractive.

One thing of concern is the proposed change to Aggressive refrain... cracked armor is a lot easier to deal with than a perma -20 AR. Factor in the fact that Paragons have almost no good options for IAS, and few good builds other than the imbagon and this could potentially hurt the paragon a lot. Consider this, what will happen when you're an imbagon with Aggressive refrain up and you use "Save yourselves!". You're stuck at 60 AR and everyone else shoots up 100 AR, making you a very tempting squishy for every foe around. Since we don't know which of the 600 skills will be hit (I hope its not prot spirit) this could be a huge setback.

Also, while ritualist is undoubtedly one of my favorite classes, these buffs seem a bit unnecessary after the buff to rits last summer. Meanwhile, paragons, dervishes, rangers and mesmers go completely unattended.

Some of the new hammer and tactics skills looks interesting, but I still don't see much that changes the primary weaknesses of hammers: they are slow, and you sacrifice armor to use one. The smaller adrenaline costs will be nice, but backbreaker for 9 is still overpriced. Tactics will still be a primarily defensive line, and thus I predict it won't get much more love than it does now.

Also, any guesses on what 600/smite skills get hit? I'm betting Spellbreaker and SoA.

Perfected Shadow

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2006

Zul'Aman

Umes Uranger U[bot]

20 Feb 2010 at 05:21 - 76

Imo there are only a handful of useful potential buffs pve-wise, the rest are meh-

Hammer: a few interesting fast attack skills. Not enough to compete against just using a faster weapon when it comes to pure damage (delivering buffed packets of damage faster). What hammer does best is Earthshaker, and I don't see much that will change that.

Ritualist: nothing interesting except ARage and maybe Spirit Boon strike. Others have too high recharges. Destructive was Glaive doesn't have any useful channeling nukes to go with it, but if you plan on going near mobs to drop it, you might as well play a melee char instead. Most ritualist hexes still look crap so a buffed Anguished was Lingwah is useless. Gotta wait and see what they have planned for Soul Twisting, Rit Lord, and Spirit Channeling. But otherwise SoS builds will still remain on top.

Tactics: big pile of nothing except for Retreat which could be used instead of Fallback for moving around. Oh but some of the changes would please mr wammo though, he will now have more self preservation to complement the almighty mending. If these aren't pve/pvp splits, then I wouldn't be surprised if they had a much bigger impact on pvp (e.g. Deflect Arrows on Mo/W).

Blood Magic: Jaundiced gaze looks very good, if it's recharge is kept the same, you get a 2 sec recharge spell that speeds and reduces energy costs of Orders, as well as removing an enchantment. Blood bond providing only healing is meh but could find a slot in an Orders build.

Other things: Would Heal As One provide a permanent life stealing buff just by having it on your bar? Steelfang Slash will have a bigger effect in pvp Hammer/Sword hybrids, but it could be nice to slot with pve Earthshaker builds too.

Premium Unleaded

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

20 Feb 2010 at 05:26 - 77

More likely the 2 smiting enchants. Hitting SoA will lead to it affecting PvP unless they split; whether that's also intended ¯\(°_o)/¯

shoyon456

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2006

D/

20 Feb 2010 at 05:27 - 78

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jensy

From working on the skill balance in the TK, I can say that it's not as easy as it sounds :P Each change, no matter how small it seems, travels through the game to every monster, npc, etc. All of that has to be factored in, as well as how the updated skills synergize with other skills to create potential headaches in PvP and PvE. It's a long process. It's not "oh lol, let's just make X do Y instead of Z." Believe what you will, I know you all will anyway, but do know that a lot of work has been put into this. Oh, sure, you can say "work, for THAT?" but uh... you being personally disappointed does not mean that the work was in vain.

Not everyone will be happy. One person being happy, is another being pissed off. That's the way anything works, not just in GW. This skill balance will do what it does; it's not going to walk your dog, it's not going to do your laundry. It's not going to be everything for everyone. No skill balance ever will be :P

While the points are valid, understand these things:

1. Anet said skill updates would be every 2 months. This has taken nearly 6 months.

2. SF has been out for a long time and until now neglected by Anet. Instead of just changing the skill, they went to the extent of adding a whole new monster type (Skeletons of Dhuum) to hamper use of the skill, which really just hurt balanced teams more. Obby Flesh has never been touched and was never raised as a major concern.

3. Ele damage in HM is bad for being the "DPS class," Dervs cant get into a high-end PvE group to save their lives (trust me, my derv is my main), Mesmers have a similar problem, etc...

4. Related to number three... Rits and Warriors can get into high-end PvE, Warriors actively choose not to take tactics to go DPS, and Hammers were more aimed for PvP upon conception. None of these need priority. Anet needs to set priority goals on balancing the less used professions, get it to the point where they all can enter groups with clear advantages, and work from there on making it "even."

EDIT: Alternatively to 4, if they can't give Dervs/Mesmers a reason to get into DoA/FoW/UW/Urgoz/Deep in a timely manner or won't, admit it and give me my full hero group.

EDIT2: Like I said in my previous post, they don't owe us anything. But the way they handle their games is why I won't be buying GW2 as far as I'm concerned at this point.

Leigh The Legendary

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2006

some reform version of ibot

Mo/E

20 Feb 2010 at 05:32 - 79

really just be thankful that they do anything, it's an old game. gg

Thanks Anet for something

Tenebrae

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2007

Spain

LHV

R/N

20 Feb 2010 at 05:34 - 80

Well after reading i gotta say is "not bad" but .... those rit changes ......really ? were they more important than Mes/Rangers PvE stuff ? dear god Wilderness Survival att line ? blerf ...