Vaettir with the new Obsidian Flesh

Magragoc

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2009

Hello all. After a long break from GW, the new skill update suckered me back in. Another thread was discussing the merits of Assassins vs. Elementalists farming vaettir in Jaga Moraine, so I went to give it a go.

I was shocked at how smoothly the runs were, especially considering how long it's been since I've gone kegging. It's as safe as the old perma keg was, and clearing both the north and the south takes about as long. I've gotten my "/age" on the map down to 2 minutes with just a few runs and unoptimized skills and attributes.

I started with Sliver Armor, but given the huge elemental armor of the vaettir, each hit was only doing 7 damage; the swap to Arcane Echo was well worth it. Now, my Elementalist is just a baby, and I haven't gotten around to clearing the Asuran areas yet, so I couldn't test it with Radiation Field.

In any case, the runs as of now are as safe, smooth, and not noticably slower than the old Perma Keg run, so I'll be swimming in Golden Eggs again come Easter!

Proof:http://img7.imageshack.us/i/avgvaettirtimep.jpg/

Kordis Sol

Kordis Sol

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2009

UK

Port Sledge Snow Cones [Cold]

E/

would radiation field gove as many drops if they all die at the same time?

Spiritz

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2007

DMFC

Radiation field isnt worth it - vaetires are non fleshy so they only get a few secs degen .An alternative would be light of deldrimore as i used to use that pre nerf when i went sin with a ranger pal using eoe.

Zarion Silverarrow

Zarion Silverarrow

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2008

Puerto Rico

The Annunaki Interventionists

P/W

not to bust your bubble,this still works (http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:E/Me...Vaettir_Farmer)

But it should be the same ammount of time as yours (2minish)...i did it day of nerf but didnt bother doing /age

Yuna Matsumarui

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2009

Me/

nice build there mate, if I had an Elementalist I'd try it out.

now we have to start working on the same concept, but for HM ^^

Riot Narita

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magragoc View Post
I've gotten my "/age" on the map down to 2 minutes with just a few runs and unoptimized skills and attributes. Impressive - I'm taking 3 mins or more with that build. Got any tips?

And what is your total time from zoning in for one run, to zoning in again for the next run? (on average)

Because if it's possible to kill all 60 Vaettirs, pick up drops, zone out, and zone back in... in less than 2mins 34secs then...

...I might consider using it when event items are dropping too. But it would have to be consistently under 2:34 to beat my E/Me Raptor kill rate. Actually it would have to be significantly less than 2:34 or I doubt I'll find it worth the hassle of:
a) running to the Vaettirs, and
b) running this build (its a lot more fiddly than the Raptor build), and
c) having to bring merch summoning stones

By the way, it would have to be WAY less than 2:34 to beat the kill rate of a W/N Raptor farmer... but when event items are dropping their speed advantage evaporates. Because they have to spend time picking up all those extra (event) drops at the end of each run - and this build will suffer from that too. (E/Me Raptor farmer uses Sliver, kills one at a time instead of everything dropping dead at once, and picks up the loot as it falls - little or no time wasted at the end).

Spiritz

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2007

DMFC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot Narita View Post
Impressive - I'm taking 3 mins or more with that build. Got any tips?

And what is your total time from zoning in for one run, to zoning in again for the next run? (on average)

Because if it's possible to kill all 60 Vaettirs, pick up drops, zone out, and zone back in... in less than 2mins 34secs then...

...I might consider using it when event items are dropping too. But it would have to be consistently under 2:34 to beat my E/Me Raptor kill rate. Actually it would have to be significantly less than 2:34 or I doubt I'll find it worth the hassle of:
a) running to the Vaettirs, and
b) running this build (its a lot more fiddly than the Raptor build), and
c) having to bring merch summoning stones

By the way, it would have to be WAY less than 2:34 to beat the kill rate of a W/N Raptor farmer... but when event items are dropping their speed advantage evaporates. Because they have to spend time picking up all those extra (event) drops at the end of each run - and this build will suffer from that too. (E/Me Raptor farmer uses Sliver, kills one at a time instead of everything dropping dead at once, and picks up the loot as it falls - little or no time wasted at the end). Its about e/me and vaettires not w/n or raptors - this is an alternative to raptors - when warriors get the mop nerf if it ever comes then this will replace it.
Ps soz but im sick of w/n boasting how cool they are as they are raptor kings so dont think im targetting you ( i have a war myself but doesnt raptor farm by choice )

Magragoc

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarion Silverarrow View Post
not to bust your bubble,this still works (http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:E/Me...Vaettir_Farmer)

But it should be the same amount of time as yours (2minish)...i did it day of nerf but didnt bother doing /age Well, I've said previously that I'm not sold on using Ether Nightmare and Cry of Pain for an Elementalist. Yeah, they're great for sneaking under the Perma damage cap, but we don't have to worry about that. I'm using an earth staff with two +20% recharge mods, which would be wasted on Ether Nightmare and Cry of pain, because you can't degen them more than ten pips, and the Damage from Cry of Pain is middling. Much better in my mind to burst them with Crystal Wave et al and get the quick recharges to hit them more.

Oh, and it's also not depending on having high allegiance ranks, something that's a big plus for those of us who make many character to futz around with.

to Riot Narita: I've never sat down and really timed myself. I just check the "/age" after every run, and after a few, I only see 3 minutes or more if I lag and get bodyblocked, or some Vaettir spawn a little farther from the main groups and I waste time to round them up. I just keep my Storm Djinn's Haste up constantly, and as I talk to the Norn to get the bounty, I trigger the Mantra while moving to save a moment or two. It's actually really easy. On the whole though, most runs are going to be in that magic zone between 2:15 and 2:45 depending on the gods of Lag and Spawn, so you may be better off killing poor baby dinosaurs.

As to the Raptor Farm, I've actually never done it with my Elementalist, so i couldn't offer any solid comparisons. I would agree though, that the easy access to a merchant is something that I wished I had while killing Vaettir.

If you're really worried about kills per hour, you may think about either killing only the smaller, southern groups and rezoning quickly; or maybe beginning at the large Northern group, so when the southern group is killed last you're closer to the portal to zone.

masterjer1

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2006

Domain Of Anguish

[BURN]

I bring along extra salvage kits to salvage my white drops into materials. Doing this gives me some extra runs before I have to start merching stuff.

Shrimz

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2006

Texas

[clap]

E/

does anyone have the map of the run?

Welthas

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2007

Pennsylvania

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrimz View Post
does anyone have the map of the run? No, but google did.

http://images.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&gbv=2&resnum=0&q=vaettir%20run%2 0from%20longeyes%20ledge&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

Spiritz

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2007

DMFC

Riot Narita - wasnt flying off at you in particular , after nerf the amount of w/n ppl boasting sins have nothing to farm anymore and how fast they can raptor farm was getting beyond a joke.Also a few times a/me or me/a threads has other professions jumping in saying "we can do it faster" was also getting annoying and tbh kids boasting gives the rest of users on that profession a bad image.
So i do appologize if it seemed i was gunning for you.

Riot Narita

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magragoc View Post
If you're really worried about kills per hour, you may think about either killing only the smaller, southern groups and rezoning quickly; or maybe beginning at the large Northern group, so when the southern group is killed last you're closer to the portal to zone.
I was thinking of leaving a character from my second account at the portal as a doorman. Near-instant rezone when the run is over, saves a chunk of time. And my times are getting better with practice anyway.

I tried Mindbender instead of Storm Djinn... the faster running speed is nice, and half-cast time on Stoneflesh Aura etc makes the build more "forgiving"... but the 1sec cast (+aftercast) leads to Vaettirs body blocking too often, and ends up being counter-productive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiritz
So i do appologize if it seemed i was gunning for you No problem, I understand where you're coming from. I'm guilty of jumping in on those threads too - not for bragging, but for comparison, and finding the most efficient or convenient farm. I think that's relevant - it's good to try and improve a build/method so that it compares well with other farms/builds/methods.

Zodiak

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

Gatineau, Qc, Canada

Kiss of Anguish [KISS]

P/W

One thing that you can do that can keep you out there and Farming that many people dont think about. Multi load multiple accounts if you have them Sure it may sound obvious but it makes a huge difference having all that free storage.

aeligos

aeligos

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2010

USA

Fortituro Et Fides

being new to farming, this ele vaettir farmer is the only one i have to use

since the nerf, this farmer build became easier to use, but i do notice the gold drop rate went down a bit

i will try using something other than sliver... and also will have extra salvage kits to reduce frequency of merch use..... good ideas here. will give it a go.

>>strength and honor!<<

-.-

Sethellington

Sethellington

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2005

nn

N/

2 Minutes is mad... I usually do like 4 mins. My skill 1-4 and 8 are the same, then I have Crystal Wave, Cry of Pain and Ether Nightmare. It's not the killing that's slow it's gathering them. I usually have to do it in 2 groups because I lose aggro with some of the southern mobs. Care to make a video or explain some more?

Magragoc

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot Narita
View Post
I was thinking of leaving a character from my second account at the portal as a doorman. Near-instant rezone when the run is over, saves a chunk of time. And my times are getting better with practice anyway. That sounds great in theory, but I reckon you'd end up having to run your second account inside to collect the drops assigned to him, making each run longer. I love the idea, but a stack of Merchant Summoning Stones may be easier, and in any case, I just zone back to Longeye's. It's not like the run to Jaga Moraine is hard or long.

@Sethellington: As I've said earlier, I personally dislike the Ether Nightmare / Cry of Pain combo for an Elementalist. Given the tools an elementalist has to reduce recharge times, it seems wisest to exploit them. You already have Glyph of Swiftness, so Spec 4 points into Air Magic so it can be used on Crystal Wave / Teinai's Crystal. It recharges quickly enough that you can use it once in between Obsidian Flesh casts to make your damage skills recharge even faster. Hell, even bring a cheap 40/40 set to swap to, you'll be amazed at how often it'll trigger.

Compare that to the Ether / Cry setup: You'll be hitting for minimal amounts of Armor-ignoring damage while keeping the enemy at -10 degen. The skill recharge items you've access to are doing you zero good because of the degen cap.

Also, if you're wearing Geomancer's Insignias (as you should) you don't need the Mantra of Earth for survival, just for energy management. So you spec only enough points to give you a duration you're comfortable with, and put the rest into Energy Storage. That way you can maintain Storm Djinn's Haste even with the way Obsidian Flesh reduces your mana regen.

I've found it best to wait the extra few seconds for them all to cluster around you before starting the attack chain. That way they all die at once, you don't have to deal with stragglers, and they never run away.

Oh, when you gather them, are you trying to get all 60 at once? Don't. Kill them in two groups. I usually begin with the south first, but that's just habit at this point. I can't see it making an appreciable difference.

Good luck!

Sethellington

Sethellington

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2005

nn

N/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magragoc View Post
That sounds great in theory, but I reckon you'd end up having to run your second account inside to collect the drops assigned to him, making each run longer. I love the idea, but a stack of Merchant Summoning Stones may be easier, and in any case, I just zone back to Longeye's. It's not like the run to Jaga Moraine is hard or long.

@Sethellington: As I've said earlier, I personally dislike the Ether Nightmare / Cry of Pain combo for an Elementalist. Given the tools an elementalist has to reduce recharge times, it seems wisest to exploit them. You already have Glyph of Swiftness, so Spec 4 points into Air Magic so it can be used on Crystal Wave / Teinai's Crystal. It recharges quickly enough that you can use it once in between Obsidian Flesh casts to make your damage skills recharge even faster. Hell, even bring a cheap 40/40 set to swap to, you'll be amazed at how often it'll trigger.

Compare that to the Ether / Cry setup: You'll be hitting for minimal amounts of Armor-ignoring damage while keeping the enemy at -10 degen. The skill recharge items you've access to are doing you zero good because of the degen cap.

Also, if you're wearing Geomancer's Insignias (as you should) you don't need the Mantra of Earth for survival, just for energy management. So you spec only enough points to give you a duration you're comfortable with, and put the rest into Energy Storage. That way you can maintain Storm Djinn's Haste even with the way Obsidian Flesh reduces your mana regen.

I've found it best to wait the extra few seconds for them all to cluster around you before starting the attack chain. That way they all die at once, you don't have to deal with stragglers, and they never run away.

Oh, when you gather them, are you trying to get all 60 at once? Don't. Kill them in two groups. I usually begin with the south first, but that's just habit at this point. I can't see it making an appreciable difference.

Good luck! Yeah I switched to the Echo/Crystal/Teinai's build. The reason I was getting stragglers is because I was trying to gather all 60. But how on earth can you gather 2 groups and kill them separately in 2 mins!?

Shrimz

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2006

Texas

[clap]

E/

I learned this fairly easy. Hardest part was learning the run since I am completely new to this. I normally kill like 36 of them.. is there another group of them somewhere where I am missing? And I thought I was doing it fast by killing them in 2 mins haha..

Riot Narita

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magragoc View Post
That sounds great in theory, but I reckon you'd end up having to run your second account inside to collect the drops assigned to him, making each run longer.
Not a problem - the killing will happen out of the doorman's range. Doorman will get no drops.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magragoc View Post
I love the idea, but a stack of Merchant Summoning Stones may be easier, and in any case, I just zone back to Longeye's. It's not like the run to Jaga Moraine is hard or long. I want to use a doorman to save time rezoning at the end of each run. The muling idea was somebody else. It's something of a benefit, but I favour merch summoning stones myself.

Akimb0

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2005

Rt/N

Any tips on holding aggro? I used to Keg Farm this, so never tried it with an ele. However when I tried some AoE spells with an A/E they tended to scatter as soon as the second spell hit. How would you prevent that when you are going to be casting 3 AoE spells on them?

Riot Narita

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akimb0 View Post
Any tips on holding aggro? I used to Keg Farm this, so never tried it with an ele. However when I tried some AoE spells with an A/E they tended to scatter as soon as the second spell hit. How would you prevent that when you are going to be casting 3 AoE spells on them?
Using Crystal Wave/Tenai's, they don't seem to scatter when I aggro/kill one half of the Vaettirs, then the other half (ie. do north/south groups separately)

If I aggro all 60 Vaettirs, then hit them with 3 crystal waves in rapid succession... then sometimes half the Vaettirs will return to their side of the map (not quite the same as scattering). Dont quite know how to stop that other than pausing between casts, or wanding them to try and bring them back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrettM View Post
The two are not mutually exclusive. Why would I want to sell dyes, for example, to the summoned merchant? Good point - if the doorman is there, may as well make the best use of him.

The dyes are a bad example though - personally I do indeed sell dyes to the summoned merch, unless they're red/blue/silver/white/black... the other colours are just not worth the time spent moving them around, and visiting the dye merch.

Akimb0

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2005

Rt/N

I seem to be missing half the vaettir there. Any idea why?

Nevermind, need to do Blood Washes Blood I think.

johnan meker

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2010

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akimb0 View Post
I seem to be missing half the vaettir there. Any idea why?

Nevermind, need to do Blood Washes Blood I think. I have the same problem. I just finished Blood Washes Blood but there are barely any Vaettir there.

Edit: I am running on normal mode, but there are less than 25 mobs total which seems really low.

Magragoc

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnan meker View Post
I have the same problem. I just finished Blood Washes Blood but there are barely any Vaettir there.

Edit: I am running on normal mode, but there are less than 25 mobs total which seems really low. That's your problem. This is for Hard Mode only. In Hard Mode there'll be 60 Vaettir, and their increased attack speed just makes your life easier by keeping you swimming in Energy.