Enable creation of Low req pvp equipment
Shadowhaze
True. But there are shields with low req or nice skin shields that are indeed hudreds of ecto. Just saying. I just agree with what others have said that it should be available to all at the onset.
NoConnection
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Originally Posted by Tenebrae
LMAO. Thats the definition of RARE , something UNCOMMON , something you dont see everyday . If you allow PvP chars to create those shields , they STOP BEING RARE lol .
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FoxBat
Easiest band-aid solution: raise the breakpoint on those relevant tactics war stances to 9. Not like it couldn't use a minor nerf. Command shields are already mostly 9 thanks to the fall back breakpoint.
Tenebrae
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Originally Posted by NoConnection
Then explain to me how all those voltaic spears/tormented weapons/etc. etc. are still rare while pvp characters CAN obtain them????
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First : Be able to OBTAIN them and actually have free access of creation in control panel is a diff thing.
Second : Rarity from skins =\= rarity from req
Third : Exotic weapons are not something cheap and you can see them everyday.
Asking to let pvp chars create a R8/16 armor free is the same as asking to let pvp chars to create Exotic Weapons with 0 cost and no , it shouldnt happen , ever.
upier
tmakinen
Based on the guiding principle of GW that fair PvP equals to everybody having functionally equivalent gear regardless of time played, I must /sign this.
However, the issue is more complicated than just r7/8 shields. Any PvE item that cannot be replicated through the PvP equipment generator is a potential liability. To give an example, PvE suicide bombers get an edge (superior health manipulation) over PvP ones by using the infamous -50HP Grim Cesta. Thus the fix would necessarily be more complicated than just upping the stats since some of the odd PvE items don't have anything comparable on the PvP side.
It would probably be too cumbersome to be able to PvP generate every possible stat combination. One solution would be to categorically block weapons that are not PvP stat system compatible, or in a more restricted approach block just the offending stats so that a furious 15>50 long sword of skeletonslaying would appear without the postfix while in PvP.
Regarding the existing base of r7/8 shields on PvP characters ... since it's against the fundamental design principle it can be considered an exploit. Too bad.
However, the issue is more complicated than just r7/8 shields. Any PvE item that cannot be replicated through the PvP equipment generator is a potential liability. To give an example, PvE suicide bombers get an edge (superior health manipulation) over PvP ones by using the infamous -50HP Grim Cesta. Thus the fix would necessarily be more complicated than just upping the stats since some of the odd PvE items don't have anything comparable on the PvP side.
It would probably be too cumbersome to be able to PvP generate every possible stat combination. One solution would be to categorically block weapons that are not PvP stat system compatible, or in a more restricted approach block just the offending stats so that a furious 15>50 long sword of skeletonslaying would appear without the postfix while in PvP.
Regarding the existing base of r7/8 shields on PvP characters ... since it's against the fundamental design principle it can be considered an exploit. Too bad.
lemming
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Originally Posted by Tenebrae
Asking to let pvp chars create a R8/16 armor free is the same as asking to let pvp chars to create Exotic Weapons with 0 cost
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If r8 shields didn't have the benefit of allowing an additional 1-2 points in Divine Favor, nobody would give a shit.
Tenebrae
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Originally Posted by upier
Actually, it's not.
Since PvE is about being a unique snowflake, it makes sense to make it harder for PvP guys to obtain said items. R8/16 is NOT about vanity. (Although personally I still wouldn't mind if PvP guys would be allowed to get the pretty at 0 cost if that meant I could get my Tigger in PvE.) |
Theres almost no diff between an R8/16 and an R8/15 Shield to PvP , wanting the first one IS about vanity. That 1 armor is not going to save your life in 99.999% of the cases but is going to make the shield bloody hell rare .... not to mention those R7/16 and those dual dmg reduction mode .... that would be the next step ? no mate , hell no.
Want lower req shields in REGULAR down progression ? ( r8/15, and r7/14 ) fine for me , but R8/16 ? no , those are rare items that can be fairly compared to exotic weapons wich have a COST. You want it ? you BUY it , rares are NOT for free and should NEVER be. That "is not about vanity , is about PvP stat use" dont work , is just an excuse .
upier
Tenebrae
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Originally Posted by upier
The difference isn't huge.
The problem is that there IS a difference and this difference isn't skill related. It's gear-related. That's why this is broken for a game such as GW. |
Dude , rarity comes from various sources :
-Skin drop
-Req
-Colour
-Stats
The more things an item has , the more rare it is. That petition affects the second one. And now , re-read my post again , specially the part when i mention reqs and armor level .
upier
Tenebrae
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Originally Posted by upier
Is there a difference between 15 and 16?
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Mathematically ? yes , a really low % , less than 10.
In Rarity ? hell yes , a R8/16 is more than double the money cost of an R8/15 and sometimes more than 4x.
Any other question ?
upier
Tenebrae
"Theres almost no diff between an R8/16 and an R8/15 Shield to PvP , wanting the first one ( just because is rarer than the second and that 1 armor has near to 0 relevance un pvp armor rating so that is not a real reason) IS about vanity." <- Do you get it now with that explanation ? hope so.
Seriously , im just tired of repeating myself , i think i made the point between PvP usage and Rarity very clear. It seems that almost all ppl in this thread get it so , enough of this.
Seriously , im just tired of repeating myself , i think i made the point between PvP usage and Rarity very clear. It seems that almost all ppl in this thread get it so , enough of this.
upier
Tenebrae
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Originally Posted by upier
That would mean that if FoW armour would give 61 AL instead of 60 that the 1k set gives that would be considered vanity?
If the Tormented sword would be defined with 16-22 instead of the collectors 15-22, that would also be considered vanity? |
That "IF" is breaking the rules atm and has nothing to do with this thread because no one is asking here for 18 armor rate shields. The op never said MAX ARMOR ( lets see if capital letters work ) just q8 ....but some greedy ppl came in . I cant believe that someone with your post count is so clueless about rarity and vanity.
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Originally Posted by upier
"There is no difference" does not equal "there is ALMOST no difference".
The same way that 1.8 times 3 isn't 6. |
upier
FoxBat
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Originally Posted by Tenebrae
Asking for lower req shields does not equal asking for lower req shields with MAX armor.
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greep
/signed
Economy = PvE
Fairness = PvP.
How about we have consets available in PvP so it'd be good for the economy?
FREAKIN NO!
I'm sorry, but to people who didn't sign this, actually THINK about ALL THE ASPECTS.
Economy = PvE
Fairness = PvP.
How about we have consets available in PvP so it'd be good for the economy?
FREAKIN NO!
I'm sorry, but to people who didn't sign this, actually THINK about ALL THE ASPECTS.
Tenebrae
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Originally Posted by FoxBat
It's not unreasonable to assume the OP isn't stupid.
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Originally Posted by upier
If A.Net was to change that FoW gives 61 AL, that wouldn't be breaking the rules. A.Net decides what the rules are, so they can't break them.
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Coast
solution: minimum req for weaps/shields etc in pvp to work at their max effect req9, so nobody has an advantage that way in attrib spreading
Snark Is Dead
The OP made such a broad suggestion. But I can infer that they are talking about either rq8 16AL or r8 15AL shields. Should a pvp character be able to free-craft these from the start or should they be placed in the exotic category? The term "fairness" has been thrown around a lot in the thread so I'm going to assume they want these shields from the start. Otherwise a veteran pvp-er has an advantage over a new pvp-er armor-wise.
That said, the idea is absolutely horrible. Take monks for instance, the tactic stances are staples for most monks in pvp. A typical Mo/W had 60 inherent AL+15 diciples+ 8 from a shield +10 against whatever dmg they're facing+ the stances themselves for either an additonal 10 AL and 75% chance to block or immunity from crits. That's 93+ AL on a guardian spammer. With r8 15AL shields they'll have at least 100 AL.
I like Coast's suggestion best. That's what fair looks like.
That said, the idea is absolutely horrible. Take monks for instance, the tactic stances are staples for most monks in pvp. A typical Mo/W had 60 inherent AL+15 diciples+ 8 from a shield +10 against whatever dmg they're facing+ the stances themselves for either an additonal 10 AL and 75% chance to block or immunity from crits. That's 93+ AL on a guardian spammer. With r8 15AL shields they'll have at least 100 AL.
I like Coast's suggestion best. That's what fair looks like.
Reverend Dr
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Originally Posted by Tenebrae
that 1 armor has near to 0 relevance un pvp armor rating so that is not a real reason
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It HAS relevance and that my dear friend is the issue here.
Besides its the r8 that is the major concern here, this allows pve characters to spec higher in divine favor which (even at 8/15 as opposed to 8/16) is far more important. PvP characters do not even have this option.
FoxBat
Bumping because I thought of a reasonable (low effort) way for Anet to implement this.
Newly created PvP shields have the following "special" mod on them:
Armor 8
+ 1 Armor for each Tactics/Strength/whatever point (max 8)
Gives us full range of reqs/bonus to choose from, without having to alter the UI in any way. People wanting to pimp out their PvE toons for PvP will still need to spend money, so the "precious" market for shields will still exist to a large extent.
Newly created PvP shields have the following "special" mod on them:
Armor 8
+ 1 Armor for each Tactics/Strength/whatever point (max 8)
Gives us full range of reqs/bonus to choose from, without having to alter the UI in any way. People wanting to pimp out their PvE toons for PvP will still need to spend money, so the "precious" market for shields will still exist to a large extent.
Nuclfus
I am all in favor of fairness in PvP at any cost.
/signed
/signed
wilson
/signed
Make those shields available for PvP chars.
Make those shields available for PvP chars.
newbie_of_doom
/signed
Don't QQ about economy, seriously.
Don't QQ about economy, seriously.