What ever happened to Sorrow's Furnace - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Yol

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2007

GameAmp Guides [AMP]

E/

17 Mar 2010 at 09:20 - 41

Makes a change to see some moans about SF without it referring to shadow form

/ontopic....when EotN was released, and I found out that the dredge were in it, I hoped that there would be a link from the depths of tyria (battledepths) to sorrows furnace. Alas, I was wrong. Sorrows and Tombs need an update, even if it's just an end chest.

bitchbar player

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2006

still lost

Guy In Real Life [GIRL]

Mo/

17 Mar 2010 at 11:42 - 42

Compared to sorrow's Furnace the EOTN dungeons just look terrible, it is by far the best designed dungeon in GW. Good memories, I cant understand why no one has said anything about the gear trick.

AlsPals

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2007

Sellin hot stock tips for pro[fit]

Me/E

17 Mar 2010 at 14:43 - 43

Ahem, Bitchbar. One of the best designed areas in GW. Period. I really wish they would give some community devs some insider work so the people can revamp such places. Man GW was the shit back in '05. Hell, beta.

isildorbiafra

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2007

The Netherlands

W/

17 Mar 2010 at 14:46 - 44

Nothing. Its still there last time I checked.

The Scorpion Knight

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2009

18 Mar 2010 at 18:31 - 45

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnieBoi05

Yes.

-=*12prettyletters*=-

Quote:

Originally Posted by colosusjokers

As jonnie said. Yes, you can. My guild and I did it a little over two weeks ago I think it was. It actually seemed drastically easier than it used to be.

Thanks, I'll be sure to give it a shot sometime soon.

Phaern Majes

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2005

Anywhere but up

The Panserbjorne [ROAR]

R/Mo

18 Mar 2010 at 23:07 - 46

Guild Wars started off great because you had to work to get skills. People say that prophecies is full of pointless towns, not always so. They are pointless now but at the time you had to reach them if you wanted the skills they offered. If I remember correctly the last town didn't always offer every skill either, only the ones you unlocked on the account (maybe its still that way, having unlocked every skill I couldn't test this).

With SF was the introduction of greens. Again at the time they were great, low req weapons/offhands with perfect mods. Inscriptions didn't exist until Nightfall and shields weren't modifiable at all. Later, several bosses in Factions dropped greens, and inscriptions came with Nightfall. Now the only thing you have to do is find a max damage weapon with a low enough req and you can make it 15^whatever or 20% HCT/Recharge.

Simply put, greens were Anet's way of allowing casual players to get "perfect" weapons without endless farming for the lucky drop or the gold/ecto to buy them (emphasis on endless, because yes you still had to "farm"). Mechanic changes to the weapon system have made them obsolete, with the exception some people do like the skins. I still think Magmus' Staff is one of the coolest in game.

Swahnee

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2008

Italy

Mo/

19 Mar 2010 at 08:26 - 47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phaern Majes

Guild Wars started off great because you had to work to get skills. People say that prophecies is full of pointless towns, not always so. They are pointless now but at the time you had to reach them if you wanted the skills they offered. If I remember correctly the last town didn't always offer every skill either, only the ones you unlocked on the account (maybe its still that way, having unlocked every skill I couldn't test this).

You're right. I've recently bought the Complete Collection for my brother, and i'm playing with him through Tyria, using this page

http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Trainer_locations

to check which skills he is able to buy when we reach a new town or a new outpost. The last town visited offers only skills already available in previous outposts or as rewards of previous quests.

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

19 Mar 2010 at 09:08 - 48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phaern Majes

Guild Wars started off great because you had to work to get skills. People say that prophecies is full of pointless towns, not always so. They are pointless now but at the time you had to reach them if you wanted the skills they offered. If I remember correctly the last town didn't always offer every skill either, only the ones you unlocked on the account (maybe its still that way, having unlocked every skill I couldn't test this).

With SF was the introduction of greens. Again at the time they were great, low req weapons/offhands with perfect mods. Inscriptions didn't exist until Nightfall and shields weren't modifiable at all. Later, several bosses in Factions dropped greens, and inscriptions came with Nightfall. Now the only thing you have to do is find a max damage weapon with a low enough req and you can make it 15^whatever or 20% HCT/Recharge.

Simply put, greens were Anet's way of allowing casual players to get "perfect" weapons without endless farming for the lucky drop or the gold/ecto to buy them (emphasis on endless, because yes you still had to "farm"). Mechanic changes to the weapon system have made them obsolete, with the exception some people do like the skins. I still think Magmus' Staff is one of the coolest in game.

Skill-towns are present even in Nightfall, that did not change much (and with hero skill points, you have solid reason to look forward to, say, Lair of Forgotten to unlock Mark of Pain from hero skill trainer)

Anyhow, SF greens were not obsoleted by mechanical chances but are more of subject to green-inflation. Typical SF green is prefect in sense that all stats that are on it are max, but it is not 'too perfect' as generally weapon have stats that people do not really look for (lightning damage bows, staff with deepwound shortening). Basically, they were great upgrades from collector items with valid player market but people were really looking for 20/20 15^50 +30 hammer instead of Thorgall's Stone Smasher in long run.

What happened later is that devs gave people what they wanted: perfect stuff in image of how people modded weapons for sale to pimp them that is easy-ish to farm. Obvious result: nothing older kept value. Thorgall's Stone Smasher simply can not complete with Deldrimor Maul / Droknar's Maul / Durgon's Maul / Eldritch Maul / Forgotten Hammer / Havok's Maul / Jormungand's Thunder / Kanaxai's Mallet / Vera. Not even if you want cheap 1k hammer because noone is going to keep that for sale.

October Jade

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

drifting between Indiana and NorCal

19 Mar 2010 at 23:42 - 49

This has been discussed elsewhere, but I thought it was a nice idea so I'll bring it up once more. It was suggested that the endgame greens have a mix-and-match feature instead of being limited to what the collectors currently offer. For example, I always prefer the +5 armor suffix over +30 health. But how many greens, in all four games, offer that? Only two bows and a handful of staves. And these items aren't even useable because the other mods are crappy.

This issue was sorta resolved with the addition of the gold item crafters, but it can be taken a step further. Why not offer a fully customized (in both senses of the term) green that is specific to the character? Instead of wielding an axe that bears Kanaxai's name, it would be fun to have my own October Jade's Sword or whatever. Make it available in any core or campaign-specific skin. Who cares if everyone has a rare skinned green; these items would have no trade value at all. The market will still be there for those players who feel compelled to ctrl+click "I'm wielding a Sundering Crystalline Sword of Fortitude."

Acknowledging that this concept will never exist in the current game, I'm hoping that something similar appears in GW2.

Phaern Majes

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2005

Anywhere but up

The Panserbjorne [ROAR]

R/Mo

20 Mar 2010 at 03:33 - 50

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Anyhow, SF greens were not obsoleted by mechanical chances but are more of subject to green-inflation. Typical SF green is prefect in sense that all stats that are on it are max, but it is not 'too perfect' as generally weapon have stats that people do not really look for (lightning damage bows, staff with deepwound shortening). Basically, they were great upgrades from collector items with valid player market but people were really looking for 20/20 15^50 +30 hammer instead of Thorgall's Stone Smasher in long run.

At the time SF was released there were several greens that everyone wanted - Victo's Sword, Axe and Shield, Rago's Staff, Wand, and Off-hand, Wroth's items, and plenty of others.

I agree that if you had a choice between that perfect gold colored item and a green people always go for the gold. But at that time finding a low req perfect weapon/offhand with the inherent mods and skin you wanted was pretty slim and could cost a small fortune.

Greens were very much in demand, I remember selling Rago's Flamestaff for 60k+, Wroth's set for 40-50k, never got a Victo's myself but I remember them selling for over 100k and Tanzit's wasn't far behind. This went on for a couple months and even then prices declined slowly until Factions came out ~7 months later.

RhanoctJocosa

Legendary Korean

Join Date: Aug 2006

The Benecia Renovatio [RenO]

W/

20 Mar 2010 at 19:52 - 51

i'd be up for it just because it would bring back good memories....

Orry

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2010

21 Mar 2010 at 16:20 - 52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phaern Majes

At the time SF was released there were several greens that everyone wanted - Victo's Sword, Axe and Shield, Rago's Staff, Wand, and Off-hand, Wroth's items, and plenty of others.

Victo's items weren't wanted until after they were released with the tomb's update, since the Darknesses drop them in Hall of Heroes(explorable).

Phaern Majes

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2005

Anywhere but up

The Panserbjorne [ROAR]

R/Mo

21 Mar 2010 at 17:34 - 53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orry

Victo's items weren't wanted until after they were released with the tomb's update, since the Darknesses drop them in Hall of Heroes(explorable).

Must have be thinking Tanzit's then, been a long time since I did any of those. But I remember the warrior set out of SF was going for 100k+ for quite some time.

FengShuiDove

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2007

Trinity of the Ascended [ToA]

A/

21 Mar 2010 at 18:13 - 54

No market for greens, and no better rewards than that.

Step 1: New DAW contest
Step 2: Put the winners (exclusively AND rarely) as drops in a new Sorrow's Furnace and Tombs of the Primeval Kings end chest.
Step 3: Hooray

kosh

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

hydrponic agriculture society [Herb]

Mo/

21 Mar 2010 at 18:34 - 55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phaern Majes

Must have be thinking Tanzit's then, been a long time since I did any of those. But I remember the warrior set out of SF was going for 100k+ for quite some time.

its still a big shame they never did made like random drops of gold Tanzit's Defender and Drago's Flatbow,

all around 5 man OrO was big fun time for me back in the days, and as people said none of the eotn dungeons come close to how SF was designed.

you see that in SF you dont have to have any fancy ideas to make a dungeon worth wild.

good placed mobs, amazing scenery, good items(greens for that time made a good buck and still the market wasn't overflown with them),

chests- just the fact that you dont get an end one but you have the reg ones, miners and the no keys ones at killroys.

no one boos - same as chests basically, scatter them around the place, and give each a green.

some quests inside - doing the whole things inside was always fun. cold as ice for one is still a very funny small little quest.

imo those are the things that people used to love about SF and gw as a whole. and with NF/EoTn some of us felt that those aspects did not came into motion in those elite areas.

oscarmk

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2005

23 Mar 2010 at 15:30 - 56

Would anyone like to do this with me?. I remember I tried to do this a few times when it was released with a few PUGs groups but failed all the time lol. If anyone is interested in doing this with me please send me a PM =).

Zahr Dalsk

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2007

Canada

23 Mar 2010 at 15:48 - 57

It's in Prophecies, which sucks ^ ^

Yawgmoth

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2005

23 Mar 2010 at 16:40 - 58

One of the best things about Sorrow's Furnace was that it's not linear and offers different setups, challenges and rewards if entered with a different quest or without any quest at all. That's why having an End Chest doesn't really fit - it would turn to simple speed runs to the chest, not reviving the old fun. Reworking the Final Assault to work like Duncan - requiring redoing all the quests every before the final runs would be a must, but still it doesn't feel right.

The way to revive this awesome place would be to reinforce the reasons people played it back then - diversified repeatable content with a great selection and distribution of good unique rewards.

Talking about distribution of rewards, it's the bosses that always mattered in SF and now the Miner's Chests could also really use a major loot table update. There's a good variety of possibilities for unique special drops that could return or be intruduced as SF exclusives. Dual reduction shields, no req staffs, oldschool Para shields and spears (chance for dualvamp!), green focus items with HSR and +1(20%) for attributes that don't have them yet, and even weapons with unconditional +%dmg inherent mod (occassionally +10%, rarely +11%, uberrare +12%, ?? +13%, No 14-15%). It's Tyria, Prophecies, the home of oldschool goods. Gold Tanzit's shields would be also a great choice for a Proph exclusive skin (Factions has many, Proph none).

Anyway we can't expect any changes anytime soon, so Sorrow's fans mark your calendards - Sorrow's Furnace "The Iron Forgeman" Z-Quest is coming 1st April and there should be many PuGs forming that day.

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

23 Mar 2010 at 19:56 - 59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

Gold Tanzit's shields would be also a great choice for a Proph exclusive skin (Factions has many, Proph none).

Now, there is an idea!

SF has some nice skins that can only be found on SF greens:

Morgriff's Staff
Shadestone
Drago's Flatbow
Brohn's Staff
Willcrusher (!!!)
Villnar's Claw

Tanzit's Shield might be main attraction, but not necesarily the only one.

Painbringer

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2006

Minnesota

Black Widows of Death

W/Mo

23 Mar 2010 at 21:00 - 60

Pipedream

Start alternating mini quests for the furnace one week it is just like it is now. The next week re-open it with the dredge have taken control of the furnace. You find a half dead dwarf standing outside the furnace entrance he is willing to give you experience and gold to cleanse the furnace. The furnace is now populated with all classes of dredge and new dredge bosses, and one final elite boss. A gigantic mole creature located in the furnace area. Small little quests need to be completed to open the doors and advance to the final boss. Once the final boss is defeated a end chest spawns …dreaming again

Pleikki

WTB q8 15^50 Weapons!

Join Date: Nov 2006

???oo ???ugs ???lan [?????????]

24 Mar 2010 at 05:46 - 61

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Now, there is an idea!

SF has some nice skins that can only be found on SF greens:

Morgriff's Staff
Shadestone
Drago's Flatbow
Brohn's Staff
Willcrusher (!!!)
Villnar's Claw

Tanzit's Shield might be main attraction, but not necesarily the only one.

This,would be awesome idea, but only if those were non inscriable golds...

Yawgmoth

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2005

24 Mar 2010 at 15:30 - 62

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pleikki

This,would be awesome idea, but only if those were non inscriable golds...

Of course that's what I meant! It's Prophecies after all.

This would allow them to be valuable without being uber rare, just like Factions exclusive golds are.

This could be also an occassion for a small update on the old drop system, I mean little things like adding a possible req healing/protection staffs, possible inherent +5^50 and +5(ench) for gold staffs (can be rare or ranging from +3-+5 on golds exclusively, still much better than getting hct of other profession attrib), and removing or greatly reducing chance for mixed professions mods on caster items, increasing usability of average drop without making everything insta perfect.

Longeivity matters when reviving such old content. And being able to find a better or different one adds an incentive. This added incentive doesn't exist when everything's the same.

Pleikki

WTB q8 15^50 Weapons!

Join Date: Nov 2006

???oo ???ugs ???lan [?????????]

24 Mar 2010 at 15:41 - 63

Yeah just of thinking when they added end chests to urgoz/deep they were inscriable drops from em, so if someting like this was added (real unlikely) im thinking they would also be inscriable.

Necromas

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2005

24 Mar 2010 at 17:54 - 64

An end chest and/or some kind of better quest rewards and maybe updated monsters would be really nice and shouldn't be something hard to implement.

Tirzan

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2006

Italy

Ice Slayer Clan [ISC]

Me/E

15 Apr 2010 at 10:23 - 65

Quote:

Originally Posted by Painbringer

Its a great place and fun to go. Too bad a-net has not updated it since the early 70's

i'd like anet update it, with harder enemies and at least a couple of new items.
I'd love to go there again.

keithmcm

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2007

Lanham, MD USA

one

E/Mo

15 Apr 2010 at 15:13 - 66

I like Sorrow's. It was the first hard area I got to, when I only owned prophecies, Factions and NF were out, I just hadn't bought them yet. There should be some reason to play beyond pure acquisitiveness , ever hear the rumor that games are supposed to be fun, not just a vehicle for accumulating fake wealth?

imnotyourmother

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2008

in a house

The Knitters Guild

W/R

15 Apr 2010 at 15:29 - 67

Well this thread really touched a nerve I see.

SF is an awesome area for sure. With the advent of Shining Blade Camp starting lets hope that it ends in SF and then in GW2.

After all once GW2 comes out, who will play GW1 unless there is something great to transfer from GW1 to GW2.

Lord Sojar

The Fallen One

Join Date: Dec 2005

Oblivion

Irrelevant

Mo/Me

15 Apr 2010 at 15:45 - 68

I may have suggested this to ANET and the rest of the Test Krewe, I may not have....

This is really something I'd love to see, so cross your fingers that maybe they take my suggestion seriously?!

NerfHerder

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2010

15 Apr 2010 at 20:00 - 69

When I started playing GW Sorrows Furnace was still a big deal. It brings back alot of good memories.

I would love to see an update that adds a chest reward, maybe for defeating the Iron Forgeman or turning it into a Slavers Exile with similar rewards for completing the quests. Compared to everything else in Prophecies, the Forgeman is still relatively hard to defeat.

And speaking of changes to Tyria. I thought it would be nice if they made Prophecies weapons inscribable. Does anyone know if making these weapons inscribable would be a difficult feature to change, or could it be done fairly easy? When it comes to programming and scripting, I dont know very much.

Stapler Pirate

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2010

Australia

Shore Headcrab Society [SHS]

N/

16 Apr 2010 at 01:03 - 70

I still use my Miniature Black Moa. I can easily afford a 'better' minipet but money cannot buy memories.

Nekodesu

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2009

16 Apr 2010 at 06:24 - 71

I wish I was here in the old days, Guild Wars seemed so much more fun back then. I dont' do much SF but I hope to do the whole thing soon thought. But I heard about how one green was worth so much

Stapler Pirate

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2010

Australia

Shore Headcrab Society [SHS]

N/

16 Apr 2010 at 06:45 - 72

It would only take a week for them to fix this. Mostly what I would like is for someone from Anet to acknowledge that they agree this is a good idea

JohnCrichton

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2009

17 Apr 2010 at 02:18 - 73

good times - I remember Deldrimor War camp being rammed to the yaks with people - dead quiet there now in my district.

DoomFrost

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Florida

E/

17 Apr 2010 at 02:33 - 74

Sorrow's Furnace is now called Sorrow's Fat Ass. All the stone summit there have gotten lazy and obese due to how inactive the place has been. I don't go there anymore, it's just upsetting looking at them now, plus I got tired of having to wait every time they asked for a minute so they could catch their breath.

Maybe a workout by Killroy Stoneskin himself would get them into shape. I'm also pretty sure you could teach an old stone summit a few new skills as well.

Aeyl

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2007

The Wardrobe

Kirins of Holy Light [聖光麒麟]

R/Rt

18 Apr 2010 at 02:46 - 75

The very basics of SF team in 2005

1. Gladiators Defence/Obsi Flesh Tank
2. Spellbreaker Healer
3. Bonder
4. Heal Area MM (lol) Glyph of Renewal MM
5. SS!

I've always done it 3 man with Bonder/Healer combination, GoR MM with dozens of minions and Mantra of Resolv SS tank

not forgetting the help of the Gear

FA/Oro/Noquest
such memories of the razorstone being 100k++

glacialphoenix

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2008

Singapore

Royal Order of Flying Lemmings [ROFL]

Mo/

18 Apr 2010 at 03:45 - 76

I went there for the Black Moa Chick. XD It was fun, but I had company. I wouldn't do it with h/h.

TheGuildWarsPenguin

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Los Angeles, California

Picnic Pioneers

E/

18 Apr 2010 at 04:25 - 77

GW seemed so much more fun when people didn't try to SC everything for phat loot or easymode sabdiscordway everything.

I liked SF for all the different NPCs questlines you could do in it and because it's interesting inside SF.

majoho

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Denmark

18 Apr 2010 at 09:04 - 78

I actually never did Sorrows Furnace until it was required for the Moa Chick - it was a lot of fun and not that hard H/H'ing .... well actually the very last bit I skipped because I found it hard, but I had gotten what I came for so it was all good.

Evil_Necro

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

川崎区、日本

currently guildless..

Rt/

18 Apr 2010 at 13:52 - 79

I'm one of the camper at War Camp picking up what people got dropped for them and I'll buy

SF memories, yes definitely for the crazy MM and gear trick Obsidian Flesh and the first time I heard "tanking" in GW. Good memories, I hope Anet's surprise for the 5th b'day will include a refresh of one of their best ever designed dungeon.

Cheers

Odinius

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2006

Netherlands

[OBEY]

N/R

18 Apr 2010 at 14:02 - 80

A little like Moria in LotR would be cool
"The Dwarves Dug Too Deep And Found An Ancient Evil"