Buying new computer - Part #2 - 3 Options

Hi all again,

I'm now finalizing my options, and considering all the idea's posted in my other thread (and elsewhere), I thought I'd post all my options in 1 new thread.. max budget is $2,000

Option #1 - Intel I7 setup:

Total Cost w/p&H: $1,815

Intel Core i7 930
OCZ PC3-12800 Platinum 3x2GB OCZ3P1600LV6GK
Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R Motherboard
Antec Six Hundred Case
Samsung SpinPoint F3 1TB HD103SJ
CoolerMaster 4-Pack 120mm Fans
Corsair HX-850 Power Supply CMPSU-850HX
XFX Radeon HD5850 XXX Edition

Unfortunately, no new monitor - new monitor would break budget of $2,000 max.

I could switch Video card to a Sapphire Radeon HD5850 TOXIC 1GB, it would change total price to: $1,861

Or Switch video card to Sapphire Radeon HD5870 1GB for total cost of: $1.955

Option #2 - Intel I5 setup:

Total Cost w/p&H: $1,773

Intel Core i5 750
Gigabyte GA-P55A-UD3P Motherboard
OCZ PC3-10666 Platinum 2x2GB OCZ3P1333LV4GK
Antec Six Hundred Case
Samsung SpinPoint F3 1TB HD103SJ
CoolerMaster 4-Pack 120mm Fans
Corsair HX-850 Power Supply CMPSU-850HX
XFX Radeon HD5850 XXX Edition
Samsung P2350 23in Widescreen LCD Monitor

I could switch video card to Sapphire Radeon HD5870 1GB, Total cost would be: $1,913

Or switch monitor to a Samsung 2443BW+ 24in Widescreen LCD Monitor for total cost of $1.939

Or switch monitor to Samsung 2443BW+ 24in Widescreen LCD Monitor & video card to Sapphire Radeon HD5850 TOXIC 1GB for total cost of: $1,985

Option #3 - AMD Phenom II setup:

Total Cost w/p&h: $1,767

AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition
Gigabyte GA-890GPA-UD3H Motherboard
OCZ PC3-10666 Platinum 2x2GB OCZ3P1333LV4GK
Antec Six Hundred Case
Samsung SpinPoint F3 1TB HD103SJ
CoolerMaster 4-Pack 120mm Fans
Corsair HX-850 Power Supply CMPSU-850HX
XFX Radeon HD5850 XXX Edition
Samsung P2350 23in Widescreen LCD Monitor

I could switch video card to Sapphire Radeon HD5870 1GB, Total cost would be: $1,907

Or switch monitor to a Samsung 2443BW+ 24in Widescreen LCD Monitor for total cost of $1,933

Or switch monitor to Samsung 2443BW+ 24in Widescreen LCD Monitor & video card to Sapphire Radeon HD5850 TOXIC 1GB for total cost of: $1,979

Out of all 3 options, #2 & 3 are preferrable to me as it lets me purchase a new monitor as well. I can not afford to CFX right now, but maybe in 6-12 months. I like to play games mainly, also watch some dvd's and movies (when my home system fails me for whatever reason).

Would value & appreciate any thoughts/opinions/advice regarding these options.

You will be happy with either Option #2 or #3 --- by all means upgrade to the 5870 if it is in your budget, it will last longer into the future without needing CrossfireX etc... Your only real difference is the CPU, and the i5 will be faster (albeit marginally a few % or less) in games and will do well in multi threaded apps., the faster clock speed of the phenom ii will win out in some apps, esp if they are still single threaded. FOr a price difference of under $10 I'd have to recommend the i5 system.

Of those choices, I'd go for the i5-750 based setup.

I would have chosen option #1, but since you are over budget for a 24" monitor, there is no point in getting a beefy gpu.

I'd go with option #3 for a total cost of: $1,979.

+1 for option#2.

Id spend some more and get an i7 and 5870 but thats just my opinion

Elder III - According to toms Hardware, the I5-750 is superior to the AMD Phenom II 965.. if you pay attention to Toms Hardware that is - CPU Heirarchy Chart (and my current cpu isn't even on that list.. lolz!)

My choices seem either get beefiest system and get new monitor later, or go with a 23" monitor with a HD5870.. or a 24" monitor with a HD5850.. considering I'm gaming on a 17" monitor.. either option #2 or #3 is looking appealing. lolz

Thanx all for the opinions, appreciate it

And I would agree with Tom's on that - one thing to consider is if you want to overclock the CPU; both the i5 750 and the phenom ii series will overclock very well. Now I would buy the i5 since it's only a few dollars more. One thing you could check out would be a Phenom II 945/955 since they are going to be just about equal to the 965, and easily overclock to that frequency at stock voltage and with a stock cooler... and are probably $30-40 cheaper. That's just an option, and whether or not you are the type to pinch pennies will determine if it is worth it to you. I still think I would get the i5 though - when all is said and done it's worth the extra cash (keeping that 2k budget in mind).

Don't even think about not getting a new monitor - the difference you will IMMEDIATELY notice when you first plug that baby in will be more than you will ever notice by throwing money away on an i7 920 CPU. If you want to game then you need a nice monitor and the i5 is just as good for gaming as anything else.

Actually, if you go by what Tom's says, it's not worth getting anything more than an i5-750. The price/performance ratio beyond the i5-750 is not good.

My experience knowledge makes me decide option #1 is better, however some simple changes to help you out, if you want a more detailed explanation feel free to Private Message me through Guild Wars or on the Forum (See my Forum name for my IGN). I'm not in the right state of mind to write a huge post explaining why Option 1 is superior.

Motherboard: EVGA x58 SLI (best X58 motherboard if you ask me, it's what I use in my current build).

Processor / CPU: Core i7 920 (d0 stepping) the i7 930 is fine if you want it but the i7 920 is also fine, they're basically the same processor except one has a minor overclock.

Hard Drive: I cannot stress this enough, Western Digital > All, if you're not using Western Digital you're doing something wrong.

PS: You may run into issues with the case you have picked, if you're using a 5 series card I recommend using a Full-Tower but if you're sure it'll fit in a Mid-Tower case go right ahead and upgrade. Just remember though Graphics Cards are only going to get bigger.

PPS: If you wait a month a drop in price is coming to the ATI cards, I cannot tell you where I've acquired this knowledge but lets just say nVidia is going to feel the pain when the new prices drop. Additionally if you again wait a few months you can grab an AMD 6-core Processor which I assume will be launching within 2 - 3 months with a bargain price of $299.99 for an "Extreme Edition" (Black Edition is what AMD calls it) which is clocked at something like 3.0GHz out of the box with 6 cores and an unlocked multiplier you should be able to pump those babies to 4GHz easily on decent air cooling (True 120, Dark Knight, V8, etc)

My setup is similar to what you desire.

For MMO's in general, a top priority would be to get a Solid State Drive(SSD), SSDs strength lie in access times, most of which have speed of 0.1ms, so being in a MMO environment you are constantly going to new areas which textures are constantly being loaded.

GW1 is instanced so ^^^ is not that big a deal - and they are still too expensive to merit it if you are trying to stay under a certain budget.

I don't think anyone would argue that the i7 920 is the best CPU listed, but the OP is gaming on a 17" monitor - think about that.... it almost makes me sad enough to buy him/her a new lcd myself (ok, that's pushing it lol), a new monitor won't fit into the budget with a i7 920 build - and the i5 series is amazing for gaming purposes, which is what we are concerned with here.

I have a 22" Samsung that I would happily give the OP - but shipping to Oz?

Sorry, mate

PS: The Corei7 860 bitch slaps the 920/930. ^_^

God forbid you can't run 3x SLi/CFX! GOD. FORBID. END GAME MAN! /sarcasm

I easily OCed my 860 to 4GHz, and I even managed a 4.6GHz OC on it via software OCing, but it seems to dislike Flash at that speed.... which is odd.

Elder III - funny, what sparked me to get a new monitor was my mum. she recently got a 22" wide-screen lcd.. and I was impressed with the resolution. It's funny cuz my mum is not a gamer and she for the longest time swore she would never get a computer .. and now she sits and tinkers on it and got a bigger screen because 17" was "just too small!".. lolz

From what iIve read, both i5-750 & phenom ii seem to overclock fairly well, so unless I was going for extreme oc'ing.. that likely isn't a concern - and I do believe the phenom ii was better then.

I'm not really into penny pinching unless it will gain me something tbo. The 955 is $30 cheaper and the 945 is $50 cheaper, but even if I went with the 945.. my options for video card and/or monitor upgrades would stay the same.. as getting HD5870 & 24" monitor would still be over $2,000.. so apart from saving my bank balance $30-50.. there is no point in not going with the best possible option.

Hmm.. WD. I look at the list of Western Digital HD's.. and I get confused. Whats the difference between the following (apart from price.. lolz):

Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB WD1002FAEX - #135
Western Digital Green 1TB WD10EARS - $105
Western Digital RE3 1TB WD1002FBYS - #169
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=210_344&pro ducts_id=13198

that last drive is 500MB bigger than the others and is priced around the same. What is the diff between the Caviar & the Green drives?

Sir Baddock - unfortunately I can't wait much longer. Reason I'm buying is because my computer is on it's last legs. And it's just getting worse - not sure my computer will last the next few weeks, let alone a few months.

snikerz - if I had the money to burn on a SSD I would, but the problem is SSD are not big, and cost a lot... $300-500 just for 128GB.. and since I am looking for space.. right now, I'll have to pass on SSD

Edler III & Snograt - I appreciate the sympathy about me gaming on a 17" monitor. It's terribad.. lolz

Rahja - lolz @ end game comment

I have to say, 1 thing I'm debating about with the Phenom II vs i5-750 is future upgradable.

The i5-750 does give me a upgrade to the i7-860/870.. but doubtful Intel will release any new/more cpu's on this board .. and we are looking at 6-cores being released later this year or early next year.. and doubt they will go on the 1156 boards...

The Phenom II 965 however provides no further cpu options at this moment, as this is the highest available at this time. However, the upcoming AMD cpu's are supposedly AM3 based.. so will be usable on the MB I listed.. and these are supposedly 6-core cpu's. So the amd suggest's it's long-term upgradability is superior to the intel..

as with intel I'd need to buy new mb and ram along with cpu while amd suggest's all I'd need to buy is the cpu...

The 1156 socket is far from done. Actually, I was reading up on the Corei3 530 CPU.... little wee beastie that thing is... if you are on a budget, and you want a better graphics card (which is the primary bottleneck for games with high end graphics), the i3 530 is amazing. It overclocks to 4GHz on STOCK cooling at nearly stock voltage, and it runs very cool. Yes, it's a dual core, but it has Hyperthreading, giving it 4 logical cores, which is plenty for games. Later on, you could put an 860 into the system, when games truly become multithreaded. Until then, the 530 would more than suffice! That would give you a budget for an HD5970 or GTX480 if you would so choose, without stressing your budget to the point of exploding. I'd recommend taking a peek at that path.

Lolwut?

IIRC the difference among green, black, and blue is how WD is trying to be environmentally conscious with their HDD usage of electricty and the heat they produce. Someone correct me if I am wrong, I read this on Tom's Hardware sometime ago.

Anyways here is a quick and simple explanation

green = low power / low performance
blue= medium power / medium performance
black = high power / high performance

personally I'd get the samsung you have already posted http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?...ducts_id=12711. F3 are amazing and SSD are too overpriced atm.

Without spending too much time digging into their specs, I notice that the Green drives use a new "advanced format", which is not compatible with some OSes, and they are designed to use less power. I also know, from past experience, that WD sells drives in various levels of "performance" - in this case, the RE3 drive is designed for work in business/server applications where continuous use and data reliability are prime concerns. The extra cost is more a function of the extra testing/certification the drive goes through, than any major physical difference.

yep, SSDs are still too pricy, especially 128gb+ , and you want a good one too since some of them are prone to stuttering(not enough cache)

realizing this, i decided all i needed was a 64gb, to install windows, a few selected games i regularly play(GW and BF:BC2), and do alot of .rar extracting, when i want to store stuff, i'll use other hard drives, aka my greens

greens are great for storage, which i have several of, speed isn't a concern,,, as all i want them to do is store stuff.

imo best thing since sliced bread.

Hi Kamatsu, my name is value, nice to meet you.

http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?...ducts_id=13218

BUY ME.

Rahja - thanx for the thought, but you'll notice the i3 is only ~$100 cheaper, and as it stands that extra $100 won't allow me to get a HD5970.. seeing as the cheapest is ~$400 over the HD5870... and as for the GTX580.. it's still ~$200 over the HD5870.. so still out of price range.

Any thought's about Case choice? It's been suggested that my case choice might be an issue - that the case might not be big enough. I don't really know cases too well.. about the only brand name in the case list i recognize is Antec... I currently have one of their old Antec Sonata Black case's..and it's been a good case, but needs to be replaced.

http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?...index&cPath=25

Just taking a gander through some of these cases, some stood out to me:

Thermaltake V9 Black Edition - $158
Thermaltake Element G - $164 (not in stock)
Thermaltake Element S, with window - $159
Thermaltake Soprano DX Black - $159
CoolerMaster CM 690 II Advanced - $149
CoolerMaster CM Storm Scout - $128
CoolerMaster HAF 922 Case - $155
Antec Nine Hundred Two Case - $149
Antec Six Hundred Case - $119

Obviously if I switch cases to anything other than Antec.. I'll likely have to change the extra fan(s) I buy.. as the different cases use different fan size's. But thats not really an issue.. just wondering what people thought of the different cases.. seeing as they are all around the same price...

In regards to ram, which would be better:

G.Skill Ripjaws F3-10666CL7D-4GBRH (2x2GB) DDR3 - $149
OCZ PC3-10666 Platinum 2x2GB OCZ3P1333LV4GK - $159

Thanx for all advice

Choosing a case is entirely based upon your taste. If you like seeing the guts of your comp, then get one with a window.

I suggest getting a case with good airflow. It will help keep things cool inside your rig. Find a case with front intake fans, rear exhaust fans, and top exhaust fans. Side and bottom fans are optional. I personally like Antec and CoolerMaster. Lian Li is also a good company, but they are a bit more expensive.

Word of caution with the CoolerMaster Storm Scout: it is small, you might find it difficult putting a 5870 in that case.

CM HAF hands down

if you got a MSY in your area, i recommend you go there, pccasegear has alot of bad rep, checkout whirlpool for the details on that.

The GSkill RipJaws RAM is the best, hands down. GSkill or nothing.

Jumping Is Uselss - Thanx for the heads up regarding the Storm Scout. I'll scratch that off the list. I really don't want to buy a case and find it has issue's fitting my gear.. then have to wait for a new case (and thus blow my budget.. lolz)

I'm not fussed about seeing the working's of my computer. lolz. Only time I "need" to see that is when I'm building it or upgrading/installing something or checking if there are problems.

Side fans - are these for intake or exhust? I admit I've never had a case with side fans.. so never been sure about that.

snikerz - hmm, reading the sticky on Whirlpool about vic retailers puts pccasegear at 115/12 happy/bad, and I did a forum search and most of the post's were ppl happy with pccase gear apart from a few negatives (which all got sorted out).. apart from 1 long thread dated back to jan 09 when they apparently had some issue's. So not sure where this bad rep yuor talking about is - you might be referring to GamerDudes.. now THEY have a bad rep. lolz

Rahja - lol not surprised you'd say that, since you suggested them in the 1st place :P

But, looking at both rams.. their #'s are different..

OCZ: 7-7-7-20
G-Skil: 7-7-7-21

Ok, not that much different tbo. But umm, I'm a tad lost as to which would be "better" anyways. lolz I really have lost it when it comes to whats good/bad.. lolz

i would go for the option #3

But thats only because my setup is very simmilar.

Note that the cpu fan on the stock cooler for a AMD Phenom2 965 is good but very loud.

Would consider getting a Corsair H50 all in one liquid cooler. it does the job and its less hassle and cheaper than buying a full water kit for whatever setup you have gone for.

Well, I've been watching some guy reviewing cases at 3dGameMan and I have to say, some interesting reviews..

Based on the review, I've scratched off the CM HAF 922 case already. Where I live I have an issue with dust, so for me.. cooling vents and fans need to have dust filter's.. and with the HAF 922 I'd have to buy like 4-6 separate filter's.. and yes, while I can buy fan filter's.. the side panel likely would need extra filtering apart from the fan filter's. so no good for me.

The CM 690 II review was decent imo.. but the sheer # of fans blows my mind. lolz. All ports were filtered however, so that's a definite plus to me. although washing all those filter's will be a pain (since each hd slot is a filter.. so like 10-12 filter's.. lolz. Only concern i have - just because there are more fans, doesn't mean the airflow is smooth and workable..does all the fans work against each other? hmm

I was also impressed with the Antec Nine Hundred Two case review. Seems to have good cooling, cooling vents are filtered apart from 1 drive bay.. but this isn't a concern as my dvd drive will be there. My biggest concern/worry with this case is - will it fit my video card? the 690 II has 12" of space, while the Antec only has 10.5" of space (if you believe what the review stated..).. and when I look at the dimensions of the HD5870.. it's 27.9cm.. which I believe is around 10.98"..

So sadly looks like even though I like the look of the Antec case and features.. it's off the list as my video card won't fit

The Antec 1200 is unfortunately out of my price range, so not even looking at the review.. lolz

The Thermaltake Element G case reviewed well as well, but again - it only fits 10.5" cards.. so another scratched as the HD5870 is ~11"..

The [url=http://www.3dgameman.com/reviews/1044/thermaltake-element-s-case]Thermaltake Element S[/ur] case was ok, some of it didn't impress (fronting).. but again, video card won't fit.

Same story for [url=http://www.3dgameman.com/reviews/1028/thermaltake-v9-black-edition-case]Thermaltake V9 Black Edition[/url. Nice case, some issue's with hard drive bays.. but again, won't fit video card.

Same for Thermaltake Soprano DX .. some nice features, but same issue with video card.

Looks like I'm going to have to switch to full-tower cases, as mid-tower cases don't have the room needed (apart from CM 690 II).

I watched the review for Thermaltake Element V Case and it was quite impressive. Looked easy to install. don't need as many hard drive slots.. but it definitely will fit my video card... And seeing as it's $179 .. it's a bit extra, but likely still affordable (link)

Another option is the Lian Li Lancool Dragon Lord PC-K62R1 which is a full tower case @ $179 as well... but would need to buy extra dust filter's from what I can see.

So, considering card space, my only case options I can see are:

Lian Li Lancool Dragon Lord PC-K62R1 - $179
Thermaltake Element V Full Tower Case - $179
CoolerMaster CM 690 II Advanced - $149

Soo.. any advice on 1 of these 3? lolz

Filters are overrated. Just blow out your PC of dust every 3 months (4x a year). You don't need filters, they reduce airflow, therefore cooling.

The Element V is a great case. It also happens to be one of the cases that nVidia certified for the GTX4xx cards, should you get one at any one point in time.

Even if dust is an issue in your area you won't need to blow the dust out more than 1/month max, which isn't much (unless you live in "The Bush" and plan to game under a Gum Tree. If dust is really bad you will have to clean the filters out almost as often as the case since the dust will gum the filters up and block airflow.... and cleaning filters isn't any easier than blowing some canned air into the case... probably more time consuming in fact. :/ --- I'd still get the HAF; it's a sweet case and likely what I will buy when I next do an upgrade to my personal system. Each case and setup is different, but generally speaking you want to draw cool air in from the front and sides/bottom, and vent hot air out the back and top. The best thing to do is try something and if you think it's running too hot, try switching the fan setup to find the best airflow for your system.

Antec 902 can fit a large gpu like the 5970 just fine. Just remove a hardrive tray. I have never seen anyone use all 8 drive bays.

I would get the Lian Li Dragon Lord. My cousin has that case and it has a great airflow and looks really nice. I only regret not getting it because it was too expensive for my budget.

Gonna be huge, then...

I would go with #3 and with 2x5850.