I feel that 600/smite was a positive element in the game, offering a fun way to complete content and fill in things like vanquisher titles.
I don't believe its presence was the cause of any harm, and I definitely don't believe that nerfing it has improved the game at all. For me, personally, I haven't really played much at all since it was nerfed. Maybe this is what ArenaNet wants, as some argue, to clear us out of their servers, but I don't quite think that's the case.
Let me say it again: nerfing 600/smite has not improved the game, and if anything it's only harmed it more. All it's done is taken away a lot of the fun for those of us who were using it to vanquish (instead of sitting there posting on 4chan, tabbing occasionally to Guild Wars to move the heroes to the next mob).
I don't even care about its applications for farming. 600/smite was a tool for completing content in a fun way.
Now can we have it back? Just a simple revert.
Revert Holy Wrath and Spell Breaker
Zahr Dalsk
MagmaRed
90% of the people using 600/Smite used it to farm or run dungeons. And I'm being generous with only listing it as 90%. Fun is a relative term. I assume you were using a hero smiter, because anyone who though playing th smiter was fun I have trouble believing. Yes, it is a relative term, and some may have found it fun, but when all you do is follow at a safe distance, and MAYBE remove a stack of conditions/hexes (Purge Signet) or Rebirth when the 600 died, there isn't much people would find fun in that.
I gathered from the nerfs they made that they wanted to encourage team play, and less solo play. 600/Smite was mainly done solo, as few places NEEDED a human smiter.
I'd like to see evidence that it harmed the game, or that it didn't improve it. I think making people play themselves (not buy a 600/Smite run) is an improvement.
I gathered from the nerfs they made that they wanted to encourage team play, and less solo play. 600/Smite was mainly done solo, as few places NEEDED a human smiter.
I'd like to see evidence that it harmed the game, or that it didn't improve it. I think making people play themselves (not buy a 600/Smite run) is an improvement.
FoxBat
It's only fun because it was vastly faster than 8-manning the place. It's still viable most places, just you know, at a rate you'd actually expect from 2 players clearing 8-man zones.
Masmar
QQ Moar.
600/smite was used far too often to do things such as DoA/Dungeons much easier than they are meant to be.
600/smite was used far too often to do things such as DoA/Dungeons much easier than they are meant to be.
upier
Zahr Dalsk
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Originally Posted by MagmaRed
I gathered from the nerfs they made that they wanted to encourage team play, and less solo play.
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Reformed
Never used a 600 but it was fun from time to time to get a casual dungeon run and just bs with friends. The issue with trio in the foundry irked me when the gems were selling for 100k+e but it's a double edged sword. Because of dedicated farmers prices dropped rapidly and in the end everyone was happy. Same could be said of all farms and farming techniques really. I don't see the sense in eliminating a play style so many seemed to enjoy especially this late in GW's life. Just let farmers have their fun...who cares...
/signed
/signed
rb.widow
You noticed the faction rapidly dropping from the top alliances in the game.
humpty
wouldn't bother me to see the return of 600/smite. really enjoyed the fun of it. with that said, i prob would not go back to it, as i have made more money post nerf with my sin solo then i ever did farming with my monk
Coverticus
As one who used to 600 waaaay to much, I do kinda miss it.
However. A change is always refreshing, it has re-engaged the brain into coming up with new builds (which admittedly I haven't really had to do in ages).
And the new ones I run for 600ing (albeit with 1 extra hero) are just as quick as the old 2 man variation. If not a little faster. Just means drops are less.
It also has taken focus away nicely from "runs" to "group participation". Forgotten how much more interesting it is to run 8 man teams again (even if it is annoying when others don't listen lol). Prime example Rragars. Always was asked to run it because people hated with a passion doing it team-way. Now though, people enjoy.
Amazing what happens when people realise the easy option is no longer available
Therefore keep as is /unsigned
However. A change is always refreshing, it has re-engaged the brain into coming up with new builds (which admittedly I haven't really had to do in ages).
And the new ones I run for 600ing (albeit with 1 extra hero) are just as quick as the old 2 man variation. If not a little faster. Just means drops are less.
It also has taken focus away nicely from "runs" to "group participation". Forgotten how much more interesting it is to run 8 man teams again (even if it is annoying when others don't listen lol). Prime example Rragars. Always was asked to run it because people hated with a passion doing it team-way. Now though, people enjoy.
Amazing what happens when people realise the easy option is no longer available
Therefore keep as is /unsigned
Tramp
Keep as is. No longer have any desire to play GW2 now. Keeping 600 nerf while leaving all the SF speedclears viable is going to save me real life money when I do not buy GW2 due to Anet imcompetance.
Xsiriss
I sort of agree. Problem is the nerfs were WAY too late (years...) and the economy got built up around it,now all that's left are various ' 'ways that organised groups can pull off.
Camel Sausage
I agree with Coverticus.
MQSC was fun pre-nerf, but the smiters had nothing to do but bond, pick up drops and res when the wallows bit too hard, or a tank sucked on one of the other routes. But I really do miss the 100 blades wallow tank, but i've moved on
Why reverse SmellBreaker? The only major ramification is you need to take melee to monks to blow them up with a visage/famine.
/notsigned
MQSC was fun pre-nerf, but the smiters had nothing to do but bond, pick up drops and res when the wallows bit too hard, or a tank sucked on one of the other routes. But I really do miss the 100 blades wallow tank, but i've moved on
Why reverse SmellBreaker? The only major ramification is you need to take melee to monks to blow them up with a visage/famine.
/notsigned
dsielschott
I would love 600/smite back..... if they don't want it running dungeons, DoA, or farming ectos then make changes to those to make it not possible.... change the AI to not attack when they are under spellbreaker.... or somthing i dont now havent really thought about it.... I only really used it for feather farms, and DTSC.... which now I am stuck at 7 mill for the rest of my GW 1 life.... cause there is no way I am doing 5 mill worth of JQ or fort....
why o why Anet do you hate making faction so hard to get..... I do not like playin PvE, but you want to make me to it a billion times.... just make the rewards for quest(such as the one that used to be used in HFFF) have no money, just faction....
why o why Anet do you hate making faction so hard to get..... I do not like playin PvE, but you want to make me to it a billion times.... just make the rewards for quest(such as the one that used to be used in HFFF) have no money, just faction....
End
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Originally Posted by dsielschott
I would love 600/smite back..... if they don't want it running dungeons, DoA, or farming ectos then make changes to those to make it not possible.... change the AI to not attack when they are under spellbreaker.... or somthing i dont now havent really thought about it.... I only really used it for feather farms, and DTSC.... which now I am stuck at 7 mill for the rest of my GW 1 life.... cause there is no way I am doing 5 mill worth of JQ or fort....
why o why Anet do you hate making faction so hard to get..... I do not like playin PvE, but you want to make me to it a billion times.... just make the rewards for quest(such as the one that used to be used in HFFF) have no money, just faction.... |
more really the DTSC...the feather farming anything can do and I find it quite a waste to do with more then 1 person
...I know it was fun to do just for VQ's....and I am also pissed that SF didn't go the way of Smiters Boon...But...I'd rather not have dungeon running back making the value of items that were supposed to be hard to get drop down to low prices....It's to easily abused and therefore deserved what it got...now if only they'd get rid of Shadow Form...and possibly revert OF (on an ele it's more powerful then it was in the first place :\ even though I use it I find it OP now and think it needs a nerf :\ )
The Template
QUOTE "Problem is the nerfs were WAY too late (years...)
Agreed, "Better late than never does NOT aplly here". Makes me wonder how many of the "decision makers" are just burnt out from overfaming with the 600/ smite build themselfs... Im sure they are gw gamers (I would think)
either way, regardles of your view on it, I think this nerf is a slap in the face to farmers... That being said. Its still a fun game, and there are still some great ways to earn! Have fun.. ~Temp
Agreed, "Better late than never does NOT aplly here". Makes me wonder how many of the "decision makers" are just burnt out from overfaming with the 600/ smite build themselfs... Im sure they are gw gamers (I would think)
either way, regardles of your view on it, I think this nerf is a slap in the face to farmers... That being said. Its still a fun game, and there are still some great ways to earn! Have fun.. ~Temp
Zahr Dalsk
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Originally Posted by The Template
That being said. Its still a fun game, and there are still some great ways to earn!
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600/smite opened up an alternative by allowing monk players, when vanquishing with H/H, to instead run 600/smite, something that's actually fun to do.
DTSC also vastly cut down on the time people needed to achieve r12 Kurzick. I never used DTSC myself but I can appreciate how people would want to use faster means to get past a ridiculously long title, particularly given that HFFF no longer exists.
Making money? A wide host of builds did that, many of them still intact, and no matter how much you farm, power traders are still making far more without needing to do any sort of gameplay. Farming cannot conceivably be a problem while power trading exists.
End
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Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
Making money? A wide host of builds did that, many of them still intact, and no matter how much you farm, power traders are still making far more without needing to do any sort of gameplay. Farming cannot conceivably be a problem while power trading exists.
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Thus farming Decreases the rarity of gold making it worthless...
Think of how worthless a euro would be if they quadrupled the production without increasing how much was destroyed
As for the Speed clears for alliance rep...I can understand why people would use it...doesn't mean I think people should be able to... I would rather see *another* complete overhaul of the kurz/lux titles
Zahr Dalsk
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Originally Posted by End
Farming is creating money (drops) where as power trading no money is created or lost just transferred...There's not enough of a goldsink in the game to support such rapid monetary gain...
Thus farming Decreases the rarity of gold making it worthless... |
Devaluating gold isn't a bad thing. On the contrary, it's good.
End
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Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
Decreasing the rarity of gold isn't a problem. I've more or less bought all the elite armour I'm ever going to, but there are likely still people who haven't. They'd have a much easier time if gold was more abundant, yes?
Devaluating gold isn't a bad thing. On the contrary, it's good. |
De-valuating gold is bad...without value to gold there will be even less of an economy...it's broken enough already...
people complain about things like minis that cost 7 mill (random number)...well if your golds worthless then the price is just going to go up...making it so the people that don't use the overpowered builds can't afford them...forcing people to use the Overpowered builds to afford shiny things...
If things were balanced (lol) then in general everyone would have the same potential to get those items and it becomes more about who's willing to put the most work in to get them...or who want's them more...
On the other side it removes many high end items from the high end spectrum... look at Celestial Compasses...remember way back when they were worth something? They've been over farmed so now anyone can have one...but if anyone can have one the people who have wealth have no reason to buy one...
Basically Overpowered farming is bad...
I have no issue with little farming builds that only work here or there farming small bits of money that add up over time (read raptors)...The issue comes when people can rapidly obtain items intended to be high end...
Sorry if this is crappily thrown together...had to rush to get it in before I head out for an appointment...
Zahr Dalsk
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Originally Posted by End
De-valuating gold is bad...without value to gold there will be even less of an economy...it's broken enough already...
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That said, those gameplay benefits - from 600/smite - far outweigh any effect from farming, even if you see it as detrimental.
People will farm. People are farming now. 600/smite could farm, yes, but it was hardly the only one. But it was invaluable for content completion on a class that's incredibly boring to H/H with in content where H/H is the only option.
ValaOfTheFens
I do miss my CoF runs. It was a good way to meet new people and relax before doing content myself. Before the nerf I didn't even know what the other applications for 600/Smite were. ^_^; I don't feel that it should have been nerfed in the way it was but ANet tends to go for quick and messy solutions and I don't expect them to change their ways now. Its a good thing I didn't invest money in equipment for the 600 build. I'm still QQing about all the time and money I spent training my Ranger up for the UW solo trap farm and then having ANet nerf EW. Q.Q
Terrible Surgeon
Unlike SF farmers most smite/600 teams were real players. I thought this was a good farming build because it had the cooperation of two or more people. I did think however that the speed clears were out of control and it dumbied down VQing.
Faction farming guilds also were abusing the 600/smite way too much. I can personally say i pulled in 500k if not more daily before the nerf so i could max my kurzick title. I remember when AB was a huge deal because that was how the best faction was made before the vfff builds were born.
AB was fun...600/smite and other farm builds killed it........../notsigned
Faction farming guilds also were abusing the 600/smite way too much. I can personally say i pulled in 500k if not more daily before the nerf so i could max my kurzick title. I remember when AB was a huge deal because that was how the best faction was made before the vfff builds were born.
AB was fun...600/smite and other farm builds killed it........../notsigned
MagmaRed
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Originally Posted by Terrible Surgeon
Unlike SF farmers most smite/600 teams were real players. I thought this was a good farming build because it had the cooperation of two or more people. I did think however that the speed clears were out of control and it dumbied down VQing.
Faction farming guilds also were abusing the 600/smite way too much. I can personally say i pulled in 500k if not more daily before the nerf so i could max my kurzick title. I remember when AB was a huge deal because that was how the best faction was made before the vfff builds were born. AB was fun...600/smite and other farm builds killed it........../notsigned |
Shadow Form (if that is what you mean by SF) was always a solo or team of humans setup. UWSC was done with no heroes, only players. But 600/Smite used hero smiters for almost every application. The only time humans were used was for DoA uses (and not always there), DTSC and MQSC (and not always there), or for friends wanting to play together. 90% of the 600/smite teams I saw was 1 human and 1 hero.
And I'll agree a little that the farming or faction reduced the AB population, but I don't agree that everyone obtaining faction was doing so with PvE methods. I think a bigger problem for AB was when JQ got adjusted to provide faster returns than AB does.
Zahr Dalsk
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Originally Posted by Terrible Surgeon
it dumbied down VQing
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Without it, you just sit there and watch the heroes vanquish. That's what I call dumbed down.
MagmaRed
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Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
It gave the option to actually play vanquishing.
Without it, you just sit there and watch the heroes vanquish. That's what I call dumbed down. |
Terrible Surgeon
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Originally Posted by MagmaRed
What. Are. You. Talking. About?
Shadow Form (if that is what you mean by SF) was always a solo or team of humans setup. UWSC was done with no heroes, only players. But 600/Smite used hero smiters for almost every application. The only time humans were used was for DoA uses (and not always there), DTSC and MQSC (and not always there), or for friends wanting to play together. 90% of the 600/smite teams I saw was 1 human and 1 hero. And I'll agree a little that the farming or faction reduced the AB population, but I don't agree that everyone obtaining faction was doing so with PvE methods. I think a bigger problem for AB was when JQ got adjusted to provide faster returns than AB does. |
Either way, i don't think that holy wrath should be returned to its prior state. The 600/smite combo was OP and required little skill to run. Also, the combination [600/smite] can still be used it's just very slow and requires a skilled smiter.
Coverticus
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Originally Posted by Terrible Surgeon
I know 600's could bring a smite hero [i did] but that was normally a last resort.
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Originally Posted by Terrible Surgeon
Either way, i don't think that holy wrath should be returned to its prior state. The 600/smite combo was OP and required little skill to run. Also, the combination [600/smite] can still be used it's just very slow and requires a skilled smiter.
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Terrible Surgeon
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Originally Posted by Coverticus
your statement on the current 600/Smite possibility is incorrect - you still can do with heroes (no human smiter is needed) and can still be done very quickly (I have found quicker in certain respects), you just need use a little logic and experimentation to get there. |
That makes no sense saying it is quicker now as Holy Wrath ends after like 8 attacks and needs to be recast...and not to mention the smiter needs to avoid aggroing any baddies. As it is true that casting on a tank while it is under attack does aggro baddies on occasion.
I'm not disagreeing that it can't be done. I'm just saying it's pretty slow and a lot more technical than it was before when Holy wrath was a maintainable enchantment. It just blows me away that you think it can be "quicker" now.
Shayne Hawke
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Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
It gave the option to actually play vanquishing.
Without it, you just sit there and watch the heroes vanquish. That's what I call dumbed down. |
The options for playing a Discord caller are vast. Bring a hex, bring a condition application, bring six other skills to pump out damage/assist your team. There are also things such as picking which target to take down first, what hexes/conditions to apply where, and how you need to move your team based on what you're fighting. 600 Tank, you run in and spam skills until the smite damage wipes. I can't really see that as taking more skill than playing within a standard team.
Coverticus
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Originally Posted by Terrible Surgeon
Haha, using the smiter build with holy wrath and retribution as it was used before with Unyielding Aura as the elite is in no way as fast as it was before.
That makes no sense saying it is quicker now as Holy Wrath ends after like 8 attacks and needs to be recast...and not to mention the smiter needs to avoid aggroing any baddies. As it is true that casting on a tank while it is under attack does aggro baddies on occasion. I'm not disagreeing that it can't be done. I'm just saying it's pretty slow and a lot more technical than it was before when Holy wrath was a maintainable enchantment. It just blows me away that you think it can be "quicker" now. |
I even gave a hint - heroes. So here's another...... forget Holy Wrath even exists.
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Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke
I can't really see that as taking more skill than playing within a standard team.
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Zahr Dalsk
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Originally Posted by MagmaRed
Well, actually, 600/Smite is pretty dumbed down. You maintain a few enchantments, and spam a couple of skills.
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Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke
And with 600/Smite, you're effectively letting the hero vanquish as well, since they're bringing the actual damaging bonds.
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dusanyu
NO!
600 is dead get over it and actually play the game. It rilly cracks me up all these people whining about new content when they just easy mode threw most of the content in eye of the north anyway try playing it for a change.
600 is dead get over it and actually play the game. It rilly cracks me up all these people whining about new content when they just easy mode threw most of the content in eye of the north anyway try playing it for a change.
Zahr Dalsk
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Originally Posted by dusanyu
600 is dead get over it and actually play the game.
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I actually played the game with 600/smite. Not by watching heroes and henchmen play.
Terrible Surgeon
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Originally Posted by Coverticus
Did I say I was even using Holy Wrath? No. Not once. You are still in "literal mode" in that Holy Wrath must be run because it used to be.
I even gave a hint - heroes. So here's another...... forget Holy Wrath even exists. |
If you are offering an alternative to using holy wrath then say what that alternative is instead of keeping people guessing.
Del
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Originally Posted by End
De-valuating gold is bad...without value to gold there will be even less of an economy...it's broken enough already...
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by End
On the other side it removes many high end items from the high end spectrum... look at Celestial Compasses...remember way back when they were worth something? They've been over farmed so now anyone can have one...but if anyone can have one the people who have wealth have no reason to buy one...
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Coverticus
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Originally Posted by Terrible Surgeon
Well sorry to break it you you bro but this thread is about holy wrath and the 600/smite teams that were nerfed.....or did you miss that?
If you are offering an alternative to using holy wrath then say what that alternative is instead of keeping people guessing. |
There isn't only one alternative to Holy Wrath. You can be creative. There are a small amount of smiting skills that are available to the bonders that in fairness are viable. Then look at the 600 and see what it can bring to the table in terms of change. I won't hand-hold a suggestion here, sorry. Just pointing out that there are still 600ing possibilites.
Shayne Hawke
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Originally Posted by Coverticus
Can kinda agree with you here, however using Discord (or whatever hero team build floats the respective boat) pretty much can guarantee you auto-pilot most of the time. Even send in the troops, hop and get a drink and come back and the work is done. Whereas the 600 required a little more concentration and hero placement (in more tricky areas). Otherwise, yes - it's conceptually the same.
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With playing beside Discord heroes (and possibly running a caller build), the level of difficulty to your play is variable and optional. You don't have one set thing that you do. Sure, you throw up the requirements for Discord and spike down targets, but different mobs have different compositions and builds, and you must account for that, whether you decide to take out a healer or support enemy first, or maybe to bring more hexes/conditions because of potential removals. You don't have to do this though; the heroes themselves should be plenty well equipped to produce the proper hexes and conditions on targets that all you might need to is ping the first target. Because interactions are not static, but your participation isn't required, the attention required to play Discordway can be anything from next to nothing, worse even than being a 600, to being extremely well focused.
Point being, you can't use the opportunity to play Discordway with zero attention as an excuse to bring back 600/Smite, because you can just as easily play Discordway with a lot more attention required than a 600 ever needs to play with. The solution isn't to bring back 600/Smite. The solution is to nerf Discordway... except that's not really a solution anyways, since there are plenty of good hero setups that aren't terribly gimmicky and could work fine with being flagged into the middle of most mobs and have near to no trouble dealing with them.
Regardless of all of the above, the reason there won't be any kind of revert is because the nerf was intended to deal with 600/Smite teams in a farming and speedclear sense. It doesn't really matter whether you find the setup to be fun to play or not, it's a (team?) build that requires little to no variation in playstyle to clear widespread amounts of content. To ignore 600/Smite in the farming sense is to immediately relieve yourself of the ability to form a good reason for why the skill changes should be reversed.
mistokibbles
Old 600/smite was obviously a lot more effective, but it's not like it's impossible now. UW NM 600/smite is still very easy and some dungeons like CoF HM are still really easy, just need to tweak your builds a bit.
Del
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Originally Posted by mistokibbles
Old 600/smite was obviously a lot more effective, but it's not like it's impossible now. UW NM 600/smite is still very easy and some dungeons like CoF HM are still really easy, just need to tweak your builds a bit.
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