I just thought up a smashing idea that would stimulate PvP activity! Here it is:
Heroes Ascent: For the first round only in Heroes Ascent, players are now awarded one fame point. This point is awarded for "effort", not a "win". If a team resigns, leaves prematurely. This point is NOT awarded for beating NPCs before the UW map.
Random Arenas: For the first ten rounds only played by a player, that player is awarded one gladiator point. This point is awarded for "effort", not a "win". If a player resigns or leaves prematurely, this point is not awarded.
This system would offer a decimal reward for effort, and it would boost PvP activity in the above stated arenas.
I'm so amazed at my own idea that it makes me want to shed a tear at how awesome I think it'd be if Regina, Martin, Stephane, and the rest of the team blessed the community with this by coding it into the game.
NOTE: To counter botting in HA, a bot-reporting function can be assigned whereby it'd flag the match and save the observer mode recording for review by the developers. Any offenses made will result in account termination.
So, what do you guys think?
Player Effort Reward System [For HA and RA]
Regulus X
DigitalFear
Tone it down. One fame a -game- is just lol.
Regulus X
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Originally Posted by DigitalFear
Tone it down. One fame a -game- is just lol.
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Shayne Hawke
Rewards for simply showing up to the match are not a good idea, simply because of any botter ever. With RA, a bot could enter the match, wait for the team to get decimated, and then join the next team. Eventually, it will just rack up free points for nothing. The same case is true with HA, except there, I predict it would turn into a large case of teams running a build to stomp the Zaishen NPCs and then the return of "Red Resigns!" (or in this case, "Red gets ROFLstomped!").
I would, however, approve of an idea to adjust the Gladiator title track as a whole so that a single point may be the reward of a single win in RA, since currently there is little reason to try playing there if your team doesn't have a good chance of getting five wins in a row.
I would, however, approve of an idea to adjust the Gladiator title track as a whole so that a single point may be the reward of a single win in RA, since currently there is little reason to try playing there if your team doesn't have a good chance of getting five wins in a row.
Regulus X
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Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke
Rewards for simply showing up to the match are not a good idea, simply because of any botter ever. With RA, a bot could enter the match, wait for the team to get decimated, and then join the next team. Eventually, it will just rack up free points for nothing. The same case is true with HA, except there, I predict it would turn into a large case of teams running a build to stomp the Zaishen NPCs and then the return of "Red Resigns!" (or in this case, "Red gets ROFLstomped!").
I would, however, approve of an idea to adjust the Gladiator title track as a whole so that a single point may be the reward of a single win in RA, since currently there is little reason to try playing there if your team doesn't have a good chance of getting five wins in a row. |
Zarion Silverarrow
IF PVP was a bit alive,id point out the flaws because of bots and shiz...
But PvP is so freeking dead,you just can't do anything to harm it.
Nice idea ^.^..anet should try it,if it works keep it if it doesn't remove it.
But PvP is so freeking dead,you just can't do anything to harm it.
Nice idea ^.^..anet should try it,if it works keep it if it doesn't remove it.
Hells Fury
You get effort point for defeating npc? Come on, people are not retarded.
Leave RA as it is. Only problem it should be fixed is when some player joins later and others get to 25 wins sooner than him and he gets kicked back into RA.
Leave RA as it is. Only problem it should be fixed is when some player joins later and others get to 25 wins sooner than him and he gets kicked back into RA.
Invertation
I will agree with the aforementioned points--as great in theory as an idea like this is, it's exploitable. The last thing ANet needs to worry about is cleaning up after another mistake.
X Ghoul
Instead of this I would much rather see them make a 1 player arena that TEACHES people how to play high end pvp. This includes : field watching, anti-ball tactics, how to play specific maps, tactics, counter-cap, bodyblocking... etc. The problem is that people that played for a long time know how to do all these things, so when people who just start out and face an experienced team they will just get decimated and not know why. There are guides on guru, but if there is a place for people to learn how to play better in game it will lower the learning curve to be able to play HA or GvG efficiently. (rank discrimination will always be there, it's everywhere in little ways tbh)
Regulus X
The whole point of the Reward System is to stimulate more activity as well as make it more enjoyable through acquiring their titles in a more feasible manner this late into the game. Guild Wars activity levels are at an all time low, and by putting this system in, the activity level will only rise upward. Rewarding effort's never been wrong. Think of it like extra credit from a class in school, or bonuses from work. Rewarding players for playing this late in the game not only makes it worth the while, but it will also give players a chance to attribute something more to their HoM for GW2 when it comes around. The 1337ists in HA will also have more players to fuel their winning streaks, so it's pretty much a win-win for both the 1337ists and the non-ranked players because they're all getting points one way or another.
colosusjokers
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Originally Posted by Regulus X
The whole point of the Reward System is to stimulate more activity as well as make it more enjoyable through acquiring their titles in a more feasible manner this late into the game. Guild Wars activity levels are at an all time low, and by putting this system in, the activity level will only rise upward. Rewarding effort's never been wrong. Think of it like extra credit from a class in school, or bonuses from work. Rewarding players for playing this late in the game not only makes it worth the while, but it will also give players a chance to attribute something more to their HoM for GW2 when it comes around. The 1337ists in HA will also have more players to fuel their winning streaks, so it's pretty much a win-win for both the 1337ists and the non-ranked players because they're all getting points one way or another.
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Lithril Ashwalker
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Originally Posted by X Ghoul
Instead of this I would much rather see them make a 1 player arena that TEACHES people how to play high end pvp. This includes : field watching, anti-ball tactics, how to play specific maps, tactics, counter-cap, bodyblocking... etc. The problem is that people that played for a long time know how to do all these things, so when people who just start out and face an experienced team they will just get decimated and not know why. There are guides on guru, but if there is a place for people to learn how to play better in game it will lower the learning curve to be able to play HA or GvG efficiently. (rank discrimination will always be there, it's everywhere in little ways tbh)
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itll be red resign all over again and a fail red resign at that. so the FIX idea to your idea is
1. Team forms just to beat Zaishan (gets reward [AFTER] underworld loads)
2. If one of the teams leaves before defeated or winning then the point is taken away from the previous battle(Zaishan) of the team that left and the team that wins moves forward to continue the meta version of HA.
Only way you can make this idea is to punish them for failing and to prevent them from another Red Resign day again, but reward them for effort with an extra fame point. the winning team keeps the fame point AND gains another fame point.
this however will NOT improve the HA idea. your idea eats itself. Arenanet will not sit through EACH observation to improve this idea or to "terminate" the accounts.
/close
Shayne Hawke
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Originally Posted by Regulus X
You're right, they can do such a thing, but let me ask you this: do we not have Observer Mode to catch them?
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Originally Posted by Regulus X
NOTE: To counter botting in HA, a bot-reporting function can be assigned whereby it'd flag the match and save the observer mode recording for review by the developers. Any offenses made will result in account termination.
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Originally Posted by colosusjokers
Well, botters would still have to deal with the pre-fight with the zaishen before getting into an actual match so I would have to say I support this.
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All that aside, I re-read the OP, and I've got another problem with the RA suggestion. Smart teams wouldn't dare go past ten wins. The points you'll pull in from wins in the first ten games would total 13, but the back 15 would only yield 16. It's a better value on your time to start over after your tenth win.
Mireles
I don't think the reward system if the problem... Its how uneven the playing field is for the people that play PvP 24/7 and have the experience vrs the player that casually plays PvP.
If anyone remembers back when HA was in tombs, was PvE chars only, and rank didn't exist. It took a 5 whole seconds to get a team... and you didn't even have to ask.
Rank discrimination started when it was created... and the gap between casual and hardcore just got bigger and bigger, until it wasn't worth many peoples time. PvP characters were allowed entrance and nothing else was required of them to play. So some played nothing but that, making teams very selective and available to a close group of people.
Making the reward partially non-win based may aid this but doesn't directly solve the problem. I think making a sealed deck like codex... but much more skills would be best because a player wouldn't have to know the meta build to get into a team. Leaving nothing but rank discrimination to deal with.
As for RA... leave it alone.. you don't have to form a group for that.. and you might as well play poker.... because the first half is getting the right team/cards. And is very exploitative as it its.
But the most important.... Anet do something about the interrupt bots that are running rapid all you have to do is get the ban hammer out. Has anyone else noticed that this bot always interrupts at 50% cast time to compensate for any high pings?
If anyone remembers back when HA was in tombs, was PvE chars only, and rank didn't exist. It took a 5 whole seconds to get a team... and you didn't even have to ask.
Rank discrimination started when it was created... and the gap between casual and hardcore just got bigger and bigger, until it wasn't worth many peoples time. PvP characters were allowed entrance and nothing else was required of them to play. So some played nothing but that, making teams very selective and available to a close group of people.
Making the reward partially non-win based may aid this but doesn't directly solve the problem. I think making a sealed deck like codex... but much more skills would be best because a player wouldn't have to know the meta build to get into a team. Leaving nothing but rank discrimination to deal with.
As for RA... leave it alone.. you don't have to form a group for that.. and you might as well play poker.... because the first half is getting the right team/cards. And is very exploitative as it its.
But the most important.... Anet do something about the interrupt bots that are running rapid all you have to do is get the ban hammer out. Has anyone else noticed that this bot always interrupts at 50% cast time to compensate for any high pings?
Regulus X
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Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke
Perhaps I was unclear. I never wanted to make the assertion that bots would be the ones farming fame in HA as a result of this change. It would be the players, and it would be through a mutual system similar to that of what happened to HB in its final days. Instead of resigning, the red team would just walk outside their base and get rolled by blue. Teams doing this can be extremely gimmicky, since the only thing you really need to build for is taking down the Zaishen elite or other players as fast as you can.
Do not want! I might be okay with trying to scan through Obs matches for potential botters if this was a tournament or something on the high-end spectrum for GvG or HA. If we're dealing with run-of-the-mill matches, it's obnoxious to think that it's worthwhile to pull developer time for picking bots out of a video. |
About the observer mode arguement, if they recieve an influx of flags all pointing to the same small group of matches labeled "[insert team1 vs team2 here]" it shouldn't be hard to take a look at just one of the recorded matches and say, "Yeap! They botted." *account terminated* or "Mmmm... not enough to convince us *close flagged obs. video*. I highly doubt there'd be more than a small handful of malicious botters this late in the game trying to cheat their way through [judging by how empty HA's been].
Gift3d
i, for one, do not think bad players deserve shit no matter how good of a college effort they're giving. need to get good at the game if you want those pretty ranks, the liveliness has been taken out of pvp already let's not try and take the diminishing competitiveness out too now huh?
RhanoctJocosa
ITT: guy keeps losing and still wants points
Zahr Dalsk
If you want to boost HA activity make a Random HA arena.
Rank discrimination dies, long prep times die, and the fun of HA finally outweighs the disadvantages.
Rank discrimination dies, long prep times die, and the fun of HA finally outweighs the disadvantages.
RhanoctJocosa
Similar story with RA and TA; you can mess around in 'random' HA all you like but eventually you're gonna want to make decent amounts of fame and will go back to 'regular' HA to face the same rank discrimination that was always there. You can't escape it, that's just how it is. People need to suck it up, most people want to have fun but also win, so if you're r5 and they're r10 naturally they will turn you down for that other r10 dude.
Zahr Dalsk
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Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa
Similar story with RA and TA; you can mess around in 'random' HA all you like but eventually you're gonna want to make decent amounts of fame and will go back to 'regular' HA to face the same rank discrimination that was always there.
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Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa
go back
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Nope. I'd play Random HA, and if I ever got tired of it I'd just stop. No reason to bother with regular HA.
RhanoctJocosa
No, I was implying that everyone likes to have massive rants about rank discrimination and time wasted setting groups up in HA but if you made a RHA people would still go back because they want fame.
Terrible Surgeon
/not signed
Showing up with an empty bar and getting a point...no thanks. People would farm it to death and bots would appear to just enter..spam aoe on NPC's in HA for kills then repeat it over and over.
Ra on the other hand, i think the reward system should be reduced to 4 consecutive wins.
Showing up with an empty bar and getting a point...no thanks. People would farm it to death and bots would appear to just enter..spam aoe on NPC's in HA for kills then repeat it over and over.
Ra on the other hand, i think the reward system should be reduced to 4 consecutive wins.
Zahr Dalsk
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Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa
No, I was implying that everyone likes to have massive rants about rank discrimination and time wasted setting groups up in HA but if you made a RHA people would still go back because they want fame.
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Regulus X
[@ nay-sayers] So in other words, let HA rot in it's rank-discriminating empty-serverness with repeated NOPs because ya'll have too much epeen-related issues and don't want other players to reach their r3+ goals this late in the game. RIGHT ON.
Bots will bot no matter whether this suggested system's there or not. What's the difference besides having fun while making some kind of progression in Hero titles?
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Originally Posted by Terrible Surgeon
/not signed
Showing up with an empty bar and getting a point...no thanks. People would farm it to death and bots would appear to just enter..spam aoe on NPC's in HA for kills then repeat it over and over. Ra on the other hand, i think the reward system should be reduced to 4 consecutive wins. |
poppu16
The victory of a match is your pvp reward. Stop wanting prices for it. There is already enough pvp rewards.
If you want more prices for wining a pvp game, i think pve would suits you better.
And 1 point for beating NPC only, really ? not 1 point for a real victory over humans ? and you call that pvp ?? ..
"Yeah let's do some pvp. Nuke that stupid NPCs group and /Resign"
If you want more prices for wining a pvp game, i think pve would suits you better.
And 1 point for beating NPC only, really ? not 1 point for a real victory over humans ? and you call that pvp ?? ..
"Yeah let's do some pvp. Nuke that stupid NPCs group and /Resign"
Dre
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Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke
I would, however, approve of an idea to adjust the Gladiator title track as a whole so that a single point may be the reward of a single win in RA, since currently there is little reason to try playing there if your team doesn't have a good chance of getting five wins in a row.
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Warvic
It's not a very bad idea..
But I could gather some RTL dudes. and farm 1 fame every 3 minutes (or so). Because with RTL you win or lose very fast. This could result in 20 fame an hour. Wich is alot for noobs who just spam RTL!
But I could gather some RTL dudes. and farm 1 fame every 3 minutes (or so). Because with RTL you win or lose very fast. This could result in 20 fame an hour. Wich is alot for noobs who just spam RTL!
upier
Shayne Hawke
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Originally Posted by Regulus X
Red-resign can happen with or without my proposed change. But if it's that big of a problem, then I say the /resign function should be disabled for the sake of mitigating abuse. I'd rather lock teams in and reward them than not reward players at all. If players enter a match in HA, they should wait it out entirely and get their point at the end.
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It's not that one team resigns or not. It's that one team agrees to get steamrolled. After all, both teams are getting a point for that first match.
RR doesn't happen in HA right now because there's no reason to. The only way to get points is to win. With your suggestion, you can get plenty of points from just losing too. It might be a little slow compared to those who actually play to win all the time, but it will likely be faster progression than most PuGs can make, and will be a lot easier to do too.
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| About the observer mode arguement, if they recieve an influx of flags all pointing to the same small group of matches labeled "[insert team1 vs team2 here]" it shouldn't be hard to take a look at just one of the recorded matches and say, "Yeap! They botted." *account terminated* or "Mmmm... not enough to convince us *close flagged obs. video*. I highly doubt there'd be more than a small handful of malicious botters this late in the game trying to cheat their way through [judging by how empty HA's been]. |
Gift3d
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Originally Posted by Regulus X
[@ nay-sayers] So in other words, let HA rot in it's rank-discriminating empty-serverness with repeated NOPs because ya'll have too much epeen-related issues and don't want other players to reach their r3+ goals this late in the game. RIGHT ON.
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if you want your bambi go get it captain. it's gonna be a bitch finding groups and finding a decent guild, but guess what? it's always been like that, for everyone, suck it up and do as we all did.
you pvers are becoming very very jaded as of late.
tealspikes
In order to recieve this reward, the match must last for x minutes and the enemy must not flawless you.
Scoring at least 1 kill and surviving for a certain amount of time is not much to ask for "effort". In the case of RR, the predermined winner would not only have to wait awhile for the other team's benefit, but they would have to sacrifice one of their players (losing the double exp from flawless, risk getting backstabbed while a man down).
Scoring at least 1 kill and surviving for a certain amount of time is not much to ask for "effort". In the case of RR, the predermined winner would not only have to wait awhile for the other team's benefit, but they would have to sacrifice one of their players (losing the double exp from flawless, risk getting backstabbed while a man down).
IlikeGW
It's a bad idea. Sorry, but you're going against the way a minority uses farming exploits in this game any way they can. Whether it's botting or just showing up and half assing it 90% of the match you would have a lot of jerks on this. And by past example, Anet is not capable of getting rid of the bots and such in a timely manner. There might be a purge once every 3 months or something. That's a little bit behind real-time, and not enough to make sure this idea doesn't cause problems.
jonnieboi05
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Originally Posted by Gift3d
i, for one, do not think bad players deserve shit no matter how good of a college effort they're giving. need to get good at the game if you want those pretty ranks, the liveliness has been taken out of pvp already let's not try and take the diminishing competitiveness out too now huh?
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Let's not ruin the last tiny (and I mean tiny) bit of prestige PvP titles have left.
Regulus X
I guess you're all right, then. Let HA die in it's foul rank discriminating ways, and let teams continue to wear down by reaping nothing from randomways and further feeding the 1337ists until there's just nobody left to play and the arena dies off completely. Dead game is dead, and the 1337ists wouldn't have it any other way.
Note how I use the term "1337ist" alololot? That's because they are. Prime example on this thread: Gift3d. I don't care if you feel offended, either. I mean, just look at your own damn post dude... It wreaks of 1337ism! And I don't care about the flames I get for it because the truth is inevitably clear: 1337ists ruined the game. Enough said? Thank the fame-wh0r!ng jerks that fail to give players a shot at competing because they're too busy frenzy-kicking players for fun, /rank'ing to mock them, pretending like anyone gives a $h!t.
I'm particularly good at the game, but too many times have I been treated like shit, frenzy-kicked from parties for no reason at all, and trolled by the 1337ists in HA because I had no rank, and my posts are a mere reflection of it. I have r3, and that's about as far as I'll go in a dead game. Let HA ROT.
The End
Note how I use the term "1337ist" alololot? That's because they are. Prime example on this thread: Gift3d. I don't care if you feel offended, either. I mean, just look at your own damn post dude... It wreaks of 1337ism! And I don't care about the flames I get for it because the truth is inevitably clear: 1337ists ruined the game. Enough said? Thank the fame-wh0r!ng jerks that fail to give players a shot at competing because they're too busy frenzy-kicking players for fun, /rank'ing to mock them, pretending like anyone gives a $h!t.
I'm particularly good at the game, but too many times have I been treated like shit, frenzy-kicked from parties for no reason at all, and trolled by the 1337ists in HA because I had no rank, and my posts are a mere reflection of it. I have r3, and that's about as far as I'll go in a dead game. Let HA ROT.
The End
colosusjokers
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Originally Posted by Regulus X
I guess you're all right, then. Let HA die in it's foul rank discriminating ways, and let teams continue to wear down by reaping nothing from randomways and further feeding the 1337ists until there's just nobody left to play and the arena dies off completely. Dead game is dead, and the 1337ists wouldn't have it any other way.
Note how I use the term "1337ist" alololot? That's because they are. Prime example on this thread: Gift3d. I don't care if you feel offended, either. I mean, just look at your own damn post dude... It wreaks of 1337ism! And I don't care about the flames I get for it because the truth is inevitably clear: 1337ists ruined the game. Enough said? Thank the fame-wh0r!ng jerks that fail to give players a shot at competing because they're too busy frenzy-kicking players for fun, /rank'ing to mock them, pretending like anyone gives a $h!t. I'm particularly good at the game, but too many times have I been treated like shit, frenzy-kicked from parties for no reason at all, and trolled by the 1337ists in HA because I had no rank, and my posts are a mere reflection of it. I have r3, and that's about as far as I'll go in a dead game. Let HA ROT. The End |
I'm content to just point and laugh at them now when they complain about having to sit around in the hall of heroes for an hour or longer just to wait for an opponent. Arenanet didn't cause this problem. The players focused on this aspect of the game did. As such they brought it on themselves.
lemming
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Originally Posted by Regulus X
I guess you're all right, then. Let HA die in it's foul rank discriminating ways, and let teams continue to wear down by reaping nothing from randomways and further feeding the 1337ists until there's just nobody left to play and the arena dies off completely. Dead game is dead, and the 1337ists wouldn't have it any other way.
Note how I use the term "1337ist" alololot? That's because they are. Prime example on this thread: Gift3d. I don't care if you feel offended, either. I mean, just look at your own damn post dude... It wreaks of 1337ism! And I don't care about the flames I get for it because the truth is inevitably clear: 1337ists ruined the game. Enough said? Thank the fame-wh0r!ng jerks that fail to give players a shot at competing because they're too busy frenzy-kicking players for fun, /rank'ing to mock them, pretending like anyone gives a $h!t. I'm particularly good at the game, but too many times have I been treated like shit, frenzy-kicked from parties for no reason at all, and trolled by the 1337ists in HA because I had no rank, and my posts are a mere reflection of it. I have r3, and that's about as far as I'll go in a dead game. Let HA ROT. The End |
Shadowspawn X
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Originally Posted by Regulus X
I'm particularly good at the game, but too many times have I been treated like shit, frenzy-kicked from parties for no reason at all, and trolled by the 1337ists in HA because I had no rank, and my posts are a mere reflection of it. I have r3, and that's about as far as I'll go in a dead game. Let HA ROT. |
mage767
Let the PvP elitists cry jupiter's RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO in their little playing field called HA. If I see any of these in PvE and see they can't run a balanced bar designed for PvE, I will show the same level of rank enthusiam as they do. That's the respect I will give them .... and if they get too cocky with their rank spikes, I will bring little ghostly out of the box and if they do too, I got badder pets for them to worry about.
If ANET implemented 7 heroes and allowed use in HA, I swear I would show these PvP elitists how to play crazy team builds.
If ANET implemented 7 heroes and allowed use in HA, I swear I would show these PvP elitists how to play crazy team builds.
Regulus X
All I gotta say is:
... NOP
... ... NOP
... ... ... NOP
...and why is that?
LF r3+ RTLWAY/RANDOMWAY
... LF r5+ IWAY/SWAY
... ... LF r8/9+++ BALANCEDWAY
... ... ... LF r12+++++ 1337WAY/PROWAY
... ... ... ... LF r15++++++++ AFKWAY/NOWAY/DEADGAMEWAY
...also:
THIS. Thanks for understanding the idead behind my thread by making this extremely good point.
... NOP
... ... NOP
... ... ... NOP
...and why is that?
LF r3+ RTLWAY/RANDOMWAY
... LF r5+ IWAY/SWAY
... ... LF r8/9+++ BALANCEDWAY
... ... ... LF r12+++++ 1337WAY/PROWAY
... ... ... ... LF r15++++++++ AFKWAY/NOWAY/DEADGAMEWAY
...also:
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Originally Posted by upier
The question really is if PvPers are satisfied with the level of activity in PvP arenas and if you are not, what would you be willing to sacrifice to increase the activity?
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upier