I noticed that some people are doing massive syncing since few weeks in gvg. They just make an alliance of 7-8 guilds of champ range guilds with their sec accs and sync easily , since not many guilds are playing anymore.
They can make that way 15 points per day , by keeping changing guilds in order that the score remains the same. But , those people found the trick to stay at 1200+ rating , but still below rank 100 in order than they are not seen and caught syncing on GW TV .They can aswell farm the gvg zaishen quest easily that way.
To crown it all , they even are making people pay ( usually 5-6e , a price which is for many a lot ) in order that they can grind their title.
Actually , this situation should not exist , as i remember syncing in RA was fixed a bit , and form of easy farming and ladder manipulation resulted in popular arena deleted .I consider champion title quite hard to get , and requiring a certain level to be earned ( ok , there are " easy builds " , but so do every other place ) .
That's why i suggest that champion points should be earned only if you are 1 week+ in the guild . I believe serious gvgers keep staying in the same guilds , and most of those i know do not care much of the title. And , people i mentionned before would not be able to make such fast farming as the yactually do ( although they would still be able to do some pts /Week)
Change Champion title
Missing HB
Agar
I doubt they will change it but realy they should not give HoM rewards for titles that get exploited like this. The PvP titles are only ment to show how experienced you are at PvP. Even if they get rank 12 like that they would still suck...
RhanoctJocosa
champ title is beyond saving... who cares
lemming
That's an absolutely stupid way of fixing the problem.
IronSheik
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Originally Posted by lemming
That's an absolutely stupid way of fixing the problem.
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I see it as a short term fix.
lemming
Make matches where a team doesn't load in count for rating.
Shayne Hawke
It sorta stops players from just joining a guild like this whenever they like for earning title points, but all of the people that usually spend time in those guilds aren't going to be affected.
I'm more in favor of the rating loss. While that has potential to be used against innocent people that just fail to load due to server problems or whatever, it would force the syncers to actually fight every match that isn't against their own group.
I'm more in favor of the rating loss. While that has potential to be used against innocent people that just fail to load due to server problems or whatever, it would force the syncers to actually fight every match that isn't against their own group.
sthpaw
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke
It sorta stops players from just joining a guild like this whenever they like for earning title points, but all of the people that usually spend time in those guilds aren't going to be affected.
I'm more in favor of the rating loss. While that has potential to be used against innocent people that just fail to load due to server problems or whatever, it would force the syncers to actually fight every match that isn't against their own group. |
Jarge
Champ Title has long since lost any worth.
Realistically, this will ruin inter-guild relations, as barely anyone will guest for other guilds, knowing they won't get champ points for playing the match.
Realistically, this will ruin inter-guild relations, as barely anyone will guest for other guilds, knowing they won't get champ points for playing the match.
Stoppre12
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Originally Posted by Missing HB
They can make that way 15 points per day
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To be more accurate if they know what they are doing, they can make 50+ points a day easily. Which just further shows how the gvg system is still being taken advantage of, even after they announced it was against the eula to sync/ ladder manipulate. Mind you many of the people are not doing just for the title but to turn extreme profit by exploiting those who want the title but have no chance of getting it. Which is even yet another reason to not only ban those involved but to change the system to prevent it. As well as changing the system, they aught to change the point system as well, as it is a well known fact NO ONE will ever max champion, at least not in the next several years.
Shayne Hawke
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Originally Posted by Stoppre12
To be more accurate if they know what they are doing, they can make 50+ points a day easily.
...as it is a well known fact NO ONE will ever max champion, at least not in the next several years. |
lemming
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke
50 points a day, and you max the title in less than seven months of playing (200 days). If the title progression is really that fast, maxing the title is not something that should be unheard of after long.
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Stoppre12
50 pts a day is easy, and by day I mean playing during the off hours when not many guilds are on. I know this as i use to do it over a year ago, i quit doing it when they officially made the announcment making it against the eula, i think that was last may, not sure. Anyway i know individuals doing it still and honestly I hope they get caught. i quit doing it cuz its not worth risking a ban. and while max would be possible doing it, if someone were to they would probably result in a ban as anet smart enough to realize no one will max it, when the highest legit title in the game is rank 9 champ, and theres few people with it.
The Mountain
In response to the OP's idea, making the req for members to be in the guild for 1 week prior to earning points (and needing to be members for points...not guests) would seriously change the farming potential. These farmers need to change guilds after only a few matches in champ range before entering the top 100, so it would limit the number of points to 4.
At that point the guild winning the matches would need to lose enough rating to begin, or the members would need to wait a week. Naturally, if they have enough guilds to sync, tanking the rating would be no problem, but it would seriously cause problems for the process, since those guilds likely wouldn't have member in them who were also paying for points (hard to have that many customers in several guilds online at one time).
So, for the time being, if Anet actually wants to take care of champ farming, they can take this step....or they could put all Champ Range matches in obs mode and let the community point out the syncers.
At that point the guild winning the matches would need to lose enough rating to begin, or the members would need to wait a week. Naturally, if they have enough guilds to sync, tanking the rating would be no problem, but it would seriously cause problems for the process, since those guilds likely wouldn't have member in them who were also paying for points (hard to have that many customers in several guilds online at one time).
So, for the time being, if Anet actually wants to take care of champ farming, they can take this step....or they could put all Champ Range matches in obs mode and let the community point out the syncers.
Missing HB
Well , actually putting all champ range fights on B ,in my opinion ,won't make things change much ( i.e just use random name pve char, then when u re done leave farming guild and that's it )
I meant an average of 10 points because the people who have 8 allys need to make all guilds have same rating after the syncings . But , that is of course if they don' find people buying points. If they do , they will get for sure less champ pts , but will get a very high gold/Ecto profit.
The thing is that 1 week requirement isn't much the problem since serious guilds do play gvg only for AT and MAT , thus they are usually all in the guild for some time .
Actually , it's hard to find a solution relying on the fight : for example , if you make like , earn the point after you killed the lord , then people would just afk , waiting their lord to be killed .
Aswell , making champion earned at any rank and change the title would lead to a situation similar than in Hero Battles, where everyone plays at low rank.
So , imo , the 1 week req for champ pts might have some problems ( guesting for example ) , but it's the least unfair .
I meant an average of 10 points because the people who have 8 allys need to make all guilds have same rating after the syncings . But , that is of course if they don' find people buying points. If they do , they will get for sure less champ pts , but will get a very high gold/Ecto profit.
The thing is that 1 week requirement isn't much the problem since serious guilds do play gvg only for AT and MAT , thus they are usually all in the guild for some time .
Actually , it's hard to find a solution relying on the fight : for example , if you make like , earn the point after you killed the lord , then people would just afk , waiting their lord to be killed .
Aswell , making champion earned at any rank and change the title would lead to a situation similar than in Hero Battles, where everyone plays at low rank.
So , imo , the 1 week req for champ pts might have some problems ( guesting for example ) , but it's the least unfair .
lemming
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Originally Posted by Missing HB
Well , actually putting all champ range fights on B ,in my opinion ,won't make things change much ( i.e just use random name pve char, then when u re done leave farming guild and that's it )
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With that being said, making no-loads count as rated matches is still by far the fairest way of dealing with it - why should member guests on ladder be penalized by not being able to earn champ points? That only serves to disincentivize pugging.
Missing HB
Yes i agree but that is the problem. If you just create a character for the gvg you paid for , then after you re done , delete the character and change the guild , it will be hard for people to recognize you .
You're right about the no loads count as real fights , but actually , there are not many guilds playing on some hours , time where people do go for sync. So , almost 9/10 times , they do fight the right opponent. I also believe this can be hard to implement since many people did do it on Hero Battles , and it was never fixed .
You're right about the no loads count as real fights , but actually , there are not many guilds playing on some hours , time where people do go for sync. So , almost 9/10 times , they do fight the right opponent. I also believe this can be hard to implement since many people did do it on Hero Battles , and it was never fixed .
Death Syndrome
Read OP, this is what I would suggest...
Change the title to a new title, the new titles points are only earned from doing AT's rating doesn't apply whether you earn the new points or not.
Synching gone, bye games/forfeits do not count towards new title track.
AT's possibly would see more play.
No it is not a bannable offence. You can show the guildwars staff a screenshot of two guilds playing eachother with both teams consisting of the same guild tags in both teams. They will pass it off like there was no proof.
I'm guessing their logic is more people would quit if banned, when in reality people want what they can't have.
Change the title to a new title, the new titles points are only earned from doing AT's rating doesn't apply whether you earn the new points or not.
Synching gone, bye games/forfeits do not count towards new title track.
AT's possibly would see more play.
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Originally Posted by lemming
It's still a bannable offense. If anyone bothers putting you on flist to report you the next day, you could be in trouble.
With that being said, making no-loads count as rated matches is still by far the fairest way of dealing with it - why should member guests on ladder be penalized by not being able to earn champ points? That only serves to disincentivize pugging. |
No it is not a bannable offence. You can show the guildwars staff a screenshot of two guilds playing eachother with both teams consisting of the same guild tags in both teams. They will pass it off like there was no proof.
I'm guessing their logic is more people would quit if banned, when in reality people want what they can't have.
The Mountain
It's bannable, Death, trust me. First time is 3-day, second is perma. All they need to take action is the syncing in obs mode.
What you might not understand is that these guilds aren't playing a match (one side just resigns). Then no problem would exist, afaik. People from the same guilds face each other often as the join their friends to play.
What you might not understand is that these guilds aren't playing a match (one side just resigns). Then no problem would exist, afaik. People from the same guilds face each other often as the join their friends to play.
Death Syndrome
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Originally Posted by The Mountain
It's bannable, Death, trust me. First time is 3-day, second is perma. All they need to take action is the syncing in obs mode.
What you might not understand is that these guilds aren't playing a match (one side just resigns). Then no problem would exist, afaik. People from the same guilds face each other often as the join their friends to play. |
And you have team 1 being the original team lets say the tag is [band]
So you have 8 [band]
Playing vs 2 [smurf] (which are [band] members that went to [smurf] for the manipulation) 2[band] 1[random] 3 henchmens.
A clear screenshot and video of this is no proof to anet, and not bannable.
When it is clear to anyone with a brain that works halfassly what is going on.
Bots are not bannable either, evidentally this wasn't proof either.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne-Fne4O2-U
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/9584/gw020u.jpg
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/4094/gw019v.jpg
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/5451/gw018.jpg
This is not coincidence when it happens every single ranger interrupt in the game.
Shayne Hawke
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Originally Posted by lemming
It's plausible, but unfeasible - that's three hours every day for months, assuming no interruptions. Plus, at the going rate of 20k per point, that's a lot of money.
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And assuming 20k per point and 5k per Z-key, it only costs you twice as much to max Champion as it does Zaishen (only... ha!).
Death Syndrome
My suggestion would make both the bought title and the synching both useless, but people would probably just abuse the at's if that is possible.
AmbientMelody
Ultimate pvp degeneration.
Nice.
Anet, surprise me actually and ban them all.
It seems like half of the top 100 deserves the ban in one form or another, as well as their socket puppet accounts.
Nice.
Anet, surprise me actually and ban them all.
It seems like half of the top 100 deserves the ban in one form or another, as well as their socket puppet accounts.
Death Syndrome
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Originally Posted by AmbientMelody
Anet, surprise me actually and ban them all.
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It would be surprising to me if they banned anyone for breaking any rule at this point.
The people that run this company are a bunch of airheads.
If I remember right Anet used to be part of Blizzard, and they were probably the breast of the brightest that got fired.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EvNJ...eature=related
lemming
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke
Or, it could have no cost, if you worked the guild up to champ range yourself and then got in touch with other players doing this. Then you could even make money by selling invitations to other players for the champ points.
And assuming 20k per point and 5k per Z-key, it only costs you twice as much to max Champion as it does Zaishen (only... ha!). |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Death Syndrome
No it is not a bannable offence. You can show the guildwars staff a screenshot of two guilds playing eachother with both teams consisting of the same guild tags in both teams. They will pass it off like there was no proof.
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Death Syndrome
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Originally Posted by lemming
You need six guilds in champ range and at least seven accounts to manipulate properly. Beyond that, you have to be awake during the dead hours and hope that none of the other champ syncing groups are playing.
I highly doubt that there's ladder manipulation going on if there's two full teams in. |
If you want me to be more specific...
LESS = Axis smurf, the members that have a LESS tag are Axis members, and as you can see in this screenshot the team is Axis fighting LESS and AXIS (Which both less, and axis are axis members).
More clearly for you, Everlasting Sonata, Illana Try, Sylvana, and Angela the Reckless are all axis members.
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/3695/gw045.jpg
That + a video of the game = no ban.
Not to mention LESS is a dead guild with noone in it only used for this purpose and as a smurf, in the same alliance.
Quote:
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Hello, Please excuse the delay in our reply; we have an unusually high ticket volume which we are working through as quickly as possible. I reviewed the logs of this incident and could not find a violation. While we do our best to investigate every reported violation, we cannot take action unless we have proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Thanks for your report and please do not hesitate to contact us again! Regards, GM CherryViper The Guild Wars Support Team |
These guys obviously know how to run a game.
What kind of person can write a game, but cannot write a simple small fix for bots? I mean come on they clearly DO NOT CARE.
You report something they say /care.
Best thing is with all the reports I filed, I got this same copy/paste message, they probably do not even read the case.
If they do care they do not have brains in their heads.
lemming
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Death Syndrome
I said same tags, not full teams.
If you want me to be more specific... LESS = Axis smurf, the members that have a LESS tag are Axis members, and as you can see in this screenshot the team is Axis fighting LESS and AXIS (Which both less, and axis are axis members). More clearly for you, Everlasting Sonata, Illana Try, Sylvana, and Angela the Reckless are all axis members. http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/3695/gw045.jpg That + a video of the game = no ban. Not to mention LESS is a dead guild with noone in it only used for this purpose and as a smurf, in the same alliance. |
And I believe it'd be a lot easier to report for champ syncing - there's more than one match serving as evidence.
Death Syndrome
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lemming
I see your point. Have you tried to get the GMs to check IP addresses?
And I believe it'd be a lot easier to report for champ syncing - there's more than one match serving as evidence. |
I do not think there is a valid excuse for that period (besides the obvious lack of a brain).
I talked to them and they tossed it off like it never happened, so I was just like screw them they are just as worthless as they are brainless.
It was the second time, that botting I posted on page one in this thread is very obvious bots, as well as this is very obvious ladder manipulation, both got tossed out, nothing happened other than me being told to go play with myself.
lemming
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Originally Posted by Death Syndrome
Is there a valid excuse why this couldn't be seen as ladder manipulation, given the video of the match?
I do not think there is a valid excuse for that period (besides the obvious lack of a brain). |
Death Syndrome
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Originally Posted by lemming
Taken completely out of context, what would lead a GM to believe your accusation? One guy guesting doesn't constitute proof in any form; people guest against their own guild often enough.
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That being said it is in the alliance, it actually leads the alliance Axis is in, but the guild LESS is deader than dead. It is owned by lesses (wife?) less = Leader of Axis. Illana try being the one that owns LESS.
The fact that it was all axis members, and one guest, with henchmans should be enough by itself.
Yea someone may guest for another guild.
How often do you have 4/8 being the same guild members and another 3/8 being henchmens, vs the same guild that is 8/8, that are not doing this for ladder manipulating.
I mean really four out of five humans on the team were from the same guild that they were fighting.
To make it visual
I Will Over Throw You [Less]
[Axis]
[Axis]
[Less] (Really an Axis Member)
[Less] (Really an Axis Member)
[bad] (Got no clue who the hell he is)
Henchman
Henchman
Henchman
VS
Axis Nova [Axis]
[Axis]
[Axis]
[Axis]
[Axis]
[Axis]
[Axis]
[Axis]
[Axis]
How often do people guest for their own smurf guilds and fight themselves not to ladder manipulate?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Then you have the bot deal, now tell me this...
How many times do you get hit with the same exact ranger interrupts from two different rangers at the same exact time?
This happened to everyone on the team, it happened to me alone 3 times in like 25 seconds.
I know I am not the only one who finds that impossible.
I mean shit trying to do it on vent and getting them to hit at the same time would be hard enough to do ONCE, they probably did it thirty plus times in 8 minutes.
How they didn't get banned, I have not the slightest clue.
I mean honestly this is NOT humanly possible, two different human brains do not work so much alike :
Quote:
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne-Fne4O2-U http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/9584/gw020u.jpg http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/4094/gw019v.jpg http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/5451/gw018.jpg |
There is only one way to get people to actually follow the rules, and do you know what that is?
lemming
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Death Syndrome
Well for one the guild has nobody in it except one person (which is a second account from axis).
That being said it is in the alliance, it actually leads the alliance Axis is in, but the guild LESS is deader than dead. It is owned by lesses (wife?) less = Leader of Axis. Illana try being the one that owns LESS. The fact that it was all axis members, and one guest, with henchmans should be enough by itself. |
Death Syndrome
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Death Syndrome
There is only one way to get people to actually follow the rules, and do you know what that is?
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Here's a prime example :
I had a few codex synchers in my guild (not sayin names) and they ended up getting banned for like 3 days I think it was, then when they came back from the ban they're all, "I'm never synching codex again!"
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lemming
The GMs don't know any of this, and you can't prove any of it to them.
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When you are administrator of something, I would assume they could see what members are in this guild, which alliance it is in, etc regardless of what they say an admin can or cannot do. Do not know if they are admins however.
Guarantee those less members were back in Axis within ten minutes of that game ending. Take a peek into axis is all they would have to do to prove they are all axis members. Whether this would be getting one of their puppet accounts in the guild, or using some kind of admin power which I would assume they would have. Wouldn't even have to peek inside the guild if they had an admin power that could look up a players name and it showed what guild they were in. Or even one that could just look and see how dead less is, and how it is being used for synching. There's just so many things that are possible, they have to be able to do something.
Shayne Hawke
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lemming
and hope that none of the other champ syncing groups are playing.
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Zahr Dalsk
I say find the offenders and ban them all, permanently. Make an example and other people will be far less likely to do it.
lemming
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Death Syndrome
When you are administrator of something, I would assume they could see what members are in this guild, which alliance it is in, etc regardless of what they say an admin can or cannot do. Do not know if they are admins however.
Guarantee those less members were back in Axis within ten minutes of that game ending. Take a peek into axis is all they would have to do to prove they are all axis members. Whether this would be getting one of their puppet accounts in the guild, or using some kind of admin power which I would assume they would have. Wouldn't even have to peek inside the guild if they had an admin power that could look up a players name and it showed what guild they were in. Or even one that could just look and see how dead less is, and how it is being used for synching. There's just so many things that are possible, they have to be able to do something. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke
wait, what? Wouldn't more champ point syncers be better for business?
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TLDR: if you try to sync when there's other guilds playing, you're lowering your rate of return significantly.
Zahr Dalsk
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lemming
I doubt that they have the ability to examine what guilds an account's been in. Even if you could ask them to look at the ladder history of Less, a loss to Axis every night isn't exactly ironclad proof of shenanigans going on.
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The Mountain
I still say observe for all 1200+ guilds would solve the problem. If you don't think so, take a step to solve it on your own. The community who is bothered could simply gather together and GvG (in two or more groups to avoid the syncers Xing out)from 1am-6am EST, and the farmers would lose so much rating, they would eventually be forced to quit (or they'd l2p).
dr love
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Death Syndrome
Bots are not bannable either, evidentally this wasn't proof either.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne-Fne4O2-U http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/9584/gw020u.jpg http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/4094/gw019v.jpg http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/5451/gw018.jpg |
As far as the syncing is concerned, the best choice in my opinion is just leave it broken. That way, at least any new comer can exploit it just the same as the 10000s of players from yesteryear. It's broken and fair for everyone.
Another way to look at it is:
Let's say you have a top rated GvG guild but you want to tank it for god knows why. So you go resign out a bunch of ladder matches. Your opponents get free champ points and rating boosts. Is it wrong?
What if you told your friends you're sacking your 1300 rating guild, so they all form up and happen to 'sync' against you for some easy wins. Is it wrong?
Now, lets say you wanted to sync a competitive ladder match because you wanted to prove rawr really is better than KMD. It works because there is a lack of competing guilds during certain hours and you can leave the match beforehand to not lose rating/save time because you only got 30min to beat KMD. It would be easy to do. Is it wrong?
Lets say you wanted to sync an uncompetitive match because you want to screw around with your friends and have fights with the catapult. Is it wrong?
Lastly, lets say you wanted to sync champ guilds in an uncompetitive (winner already decided) and cooperative manner. Is it wrong?
If you think all of them are inappropriate, then you probably shouldn't be playing video games. If you think only a few of them are wrong, then I think you're being a hypocrite.
Still Number One
Another fix besides the one Lemming pointed out on page 1 is to change observer mode from top 100 guilds to guilds with 1200+ rating. In order to synch they have to be in dead times. If they are in champ range playing in dead times, they really can't avoid popping up on observer. IF they appear on observer, there is a good chance that a.net now has evidence against the guild and therefore will hopefully lead to more bans.
NoConnection
well i know a guy that tried to deal with this shit, he wrote a wall of text to gm's what exactly to do and how considering the minimum powers they should have and how they can find those syncers and ban them but they just replied that they cant do that and that they might ban innocent people. He used to have screenshots of guilds and matches inside the games but still nothing