Minion Mastery got severely nerfed tru the years, the two main blows on it were the Minion Limit and the rework of Verata's Aura.
I believe they got nerfed mainly because of PVP. But now the engine supports skill splitting.
Why not give us some of the ol'good minion army back? If not reversing, at least increasing the limit of minions and the skills to keep them alive.
Some prolly will say: its overpowered BS! But since PVE is greatly driven by raw power (and thats why we have pve skills), why not?
Minion Mastery: Isnt about time to split?
agrios
End
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Originally Posted by agrios
Minion Mastery got severely nerfed tru the years, the two main blows on it were the Minion Limit and the rework of Verata's Aura.
I believe they got nerfed mainly because of PVP. But now the engine supports skill splitting. |
it's not like theyre are in effective I rarely leave a town without a few minion skills on my hero bars if they're already specing into death...
You want to make them MORE powerful?
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| Why not give us some of the ol'good minion army back? |
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| If not reversing, at least increasing the limit of minions |
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| and the skills to keep them alive. |
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| Some prolly will say: its overpowered BS! |
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| But since PVE is greatly driven by raw power (and thats why we have pve skills), why not? |
upier
End
I know upier...but I still love you....now get in bed....I'll be up in a moment
agrios
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Originally Posted by End
Are you seriously saying we need to buff MM's? REALLY?
Minnion bomber would still be preferred by me at least...no need to keep them alive... OK while we are at it un-nerf ursan |
But hi-level minion mastery is only usable by Necromancers primary.
And plus, some (like you) go minion bomb, some (like me) enjoyed to zerg with them. Its just a matter of taste. Minion bomb is still viable, but keeping a good number of minions alive is way harder to say at least.
Im not asking for another overpowered stuff that could be nerfed again..just a few more punch..
End
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Originally Posted by agrios
Im not asking for another overpowered stuff that could be nerfed again..just a few more punch..
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they are fine as they are...
PvE is easy enough as it is...
no need to give bad players more overpowered crap
and you sir are an idiot if you don't see your suggestion as being overpowered...
Enon
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Originally Posted by agrios
Ursan was insanely imba because it could be used by anyone with equal efficiency and, from a good range and with armor ignoring damage. It well deserved what came onto it.
But hi-level minion mastery is only usable by Necromancers primary. |
Do you see how flawed your logic is? Before even remotely considering the slight possibility of buffing necromancer, they should first think about Paragons, Dervishes, Mesmers and Elementalists.
robmdq
I fully agree with the OP about getting back the very old and original MMs.
Now, the MMs wasn't nerfed because of PVP, it was due to the expansions, imagine an army of everlasting golems....
But yeah, maybe it would be nice if there could be a way to keep those skills like they were, lets say "verata's Sacrifice only affect Prophecies minions" for example, but since everything was twisted to favor the newer skills without any consideration about screwing the older ones, i don't believe we will ever see this happening.
Just go and try playing an original MM (want the build, i still got it somewhere) using only core skills, i will save you the time, it is impossible since the original GW MM's was destroyed.
I always see people look at builds only from the "i got all expansions" side, and only by one or two variants, but what about the original builds? Why do we had to resign on our undead armies made of simple bone minions and fiends?
The miinion bombers shouldn't even be called minion masters, should be called plain minion bombers or minion exploiters, the whole thing about minion masters is to have minions alife and fighting for you, not just walking bombs. I have seen many more overpowered things happening in PVE than the old minion masters already.
anyways...
/signed
Now, the MMs wasn't nerfed because of PVP, it was due to the expansions, imagine an army of everlasting golems....
But yeah, maybe it would be nice if there could be a way to keep those skills like they were, lets say "verata's Sacrifice only affect Prophecies minions" for example, but since everything was twisted to favor the newer skills without any consideration about screwing the older ones, i don't believe we will ever see this happening.
Just go and try playing an original MM (want the build, i still got it somewhere) using only core skills, i will save you the time, it is impossible since the original GW MM's was destroyed.
I always see people look at builds only from the "i got all expansions" side, and only by one or two variants, but what about the original builds? Why do we had to resign on our undead armies made of simple bone minions and fiends?
The miinion bombers shouldn't even be called minion masters, should be called plain minion bombers or minion exploiters, the whole thing about minion masters is to have minions alife and fighting for you, not just walking bombs. I have seen many more overpowered things happening in PVE than the old minion masters already.
anyways...
/signed
Aldric
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Originally Posted by agrios
Some prolly will say: its overpowered BS! But since PVE is greatly driven by raw power (and thats why we have pve skills), why not?
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Anet should be looking at ways to make PvE more difficult for everyone not easier.
/no to overpowered shit
/maybe to removing completely the minion cap but adding a caveat to minion raising skills where you lose 5% max health for every minion you control. Just for laughs
End
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Originally Posted by robmdq
I fully agree with the OP about getting back the very old and original MMs.
Now, the MMs wasn't nerfed because of PVP, it was due to the expansions, imagine an army of everlasting golems.... But yeah, maybe it would be nice if there could be a way to keep those skills like they were, lets say "verata's Sacrifice only affect Prophecies minions" for example, but since everything was twisted to favor the newer skills without any consideration about screwing the older ones, i don't believe we will ever see this happening. Just go and try playing an original MM (want the build, i still got it somewhere) using only core skills, i will save you the time, it is impossible since the original GW MM's was destroyed. I always see people look at builds only from the "i got all expansions" side, and only by one or two variants, but what about the original builds? Why do we had to resign on our undead armies made of simple bone minions and fiends? The miinion bombers shouldn't even be called minion masters, should be called plain minion bombers or minion exploiters, the whole thing about minion masters is to have minions alife and fighting for you, not just walking bombs. I have seen many more overpowered things happening in PVE than the old minion masters already. anyways... /signed |
OANEYZxX+TInqUGLhJ0gHZC
non bomber proph MM that works just fine with the skills and cap as it is...throw together in a matter of minutes...most of which was checking to see what skills were available in only proph
Sooooo all your points are invalid...
not horribly underpowered while still only using one campaign...although your gimping yourself by only using one...it's not the game gimping you by limiting your minnions
robmdq
Whats the need for all the bad wording here?
@End, i just use my only defense as a responsible conumer, which is not rewarding anet with my money by nerfing the original game content to favor the expansions, that's why i don't purchase the expansions, it is the base of the Consumer Rights.
@End, i just use my only defense as a responsible conumer, which is not rewarding anet with my money by nerfing the original game content to favor the expansions, that's why i don't purchase the expansions, it is the base of the Consumer Rights.
End
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Originally Posted by robmdq
@End, i just use my only defense as a responsible conumer, which is not rewarding anet with my money by nerfing the original game content to favor the expansions, that's why i don't purchase the expansions, it is the base of the Consumer Rights.
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just because YOU won't buy a campaign dosen't mean they should have to balance the game around YOUR play style and purchasing habits... They didn't nerf it because they wanted to force you to buy the next game they nerfed it because it was overpowered
...powercreep is natural...live with it...
your argument is still invalid though as I have given you a proph only effective mm build...
RhanoctJocosa
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Originally Posted by End
actually what you are suggesting I would consider worse then ursan...no need for anything when you can have a team of 8 mm's go in and have one sac himself a few times and then plow through the area with impossible to kill teams of unlimited minions...
they are fine as they are... PvE is easy enough as it is... no need to give bad players more overpowered crap and you sir are an idiot if you don't see your suggestion as being overpowered... |
robmdq
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Originally Posted by End
then it's still your own fault you don't have the same power you could have...
just because YOU won't buy a campaign dosen't mean they should have to balance the game around YOUR play style and purchasing habits... They didn't nerf it because they wanted to force you to buy the next game they nerfed it because it was overpowered ...powercreep is natural...live with it... your argument is still invalid though as I have given you a proph only effective mm build... |
On the build you posted, it will fail at keeping the undeads alive for long periods of time, the minions will last too short time to make it an effective build, specially if you come across areas with large spaces without fuel to raise new minions and since you are using them also to recover your spent HP, you are actually reducing your army in numbers maybe faster than the own environment. Useless build.
Johny bravo
Does anyone else find it weird that even as the game gets easier and easier due to buffs, nerfs, and experience people still want to dumb it down even more. Every week there are at least 3 threads trying to make some new super skill. If anything we should all be calling for nerfs to make the game more challenging and bring back some of the thought and tactics required in the beginning.
Don't get me wrong I miss my minion armies as much as the next person, my main in a necro; but my god an army of 40+ minions is easily achievable and could run through just about anything.
Don't get me wrong I miss my minion armies as much as the next person, my main in a necro; but my god an army of 40+ minions is easily achievable and could run through just about anything.
End
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Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa
lmao. buffing minions to how they originally were is still not as bad as some of the stuff already in pve. are you serious
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buff what needs it then nerf the over powered crap...the order may be shuffled a bit...
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| Sorry, but when i purchase a product i expect it to remain unaltered or improved, not nerfed to favor a newer product. |
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| On the build you posted, it will fail at keeping the undeads alive for long periods of time, the minions will last too short time to make it an effective build, specially if you come across areas with large spaces without fuel to raise new minions and since you are using them also to recover your spent HP, you are actually reducing your army in numbers maybe faster than the own environment. Useless build. |
Coverticus
Good lord, unlimited minons with the current skills available (remember, most of what we have now wasn't really available pre-cap) would just be stupidly insane and overpowered. Death Nova and BoC neccies would have a field day!
Don't get me wrong, I DO miss the 25+ bone fiend days in ToPK and SF but the game has moved on considerably since then. Removing the cap would just be ANet throwing in the towel, admitting "game over man... game over!" and giving you an "autokill everything" option
Don't get me wrong, I DO miss the 25+ bone fiend days in ToPK and SF but the game has moved on considerably since then. Removing the cap would just be ANet throwing in the towel, admitting "game over man... game over!" and giving you an "autokill everything" option
Cuilan
I rarely leave without an minion master of some sort when I H/H. Minions and necromancers are strong enough. Stop wanting to buff the already god status professions.
MagmaRed
Way back when they introduced the limit on the number of minions, I was mad. At that time I farmed Sorrow's Furnace regularly with the standard Tank, bonder, healer, SS, MM, and 3 nukers. No loot scaling, no scatter issues, and gear/keg aggro magnet made tanking EXTREMELY simple. Having 50-60 minions in Sorrows was a blast. However, I soon learned that it didn't mean things couldn't continue. Having fewer minions didn't mean the game became impossible, in fact, it didn't really increase the difficulty much. But better yet, I found my energy easier to maintain. See, when I kept an army of dozens running, only the enemies dies to give me energy. Now, making an 11th minion will give me energy to continue casting. Blood Bond is an amazing skill for MMs now, so if you don't want to bomb your minions, just make use of the skills available. Not hard at all to keep an army alive, if it is, you have different problems.
Eragon Zarroc
lmao, minions are overpowered enough in pve as it is. /notsigned
Zahr Dalsk
Minions are extremely good as it is. Buffing them is a mistake; it'll just make them far too powerful.
/notsigned
/notsigned
Popeye1906
Absolutly no need for such a buff.
A Rt hero with Jagged Bones, Death Nova and Explosive Growth is already way over powered and it aint even a necro.
A Rt hero with Jagged Bones, Death Nova and Explosive Growth is already way over powered and it aint even a necro.
The Drunkard
With all of the skill changes necros have gotten, there's been quite a few +1 DM modifiers. As long as you stack up on those, I don't see why there needs to be more minions.
/notsigned
/notsigned
Dimus
I'm not talking about increasing the maximum quantity of minions, but maybe increase their level in PvE? Or slow down the degeneration, what would do not heal their every minute (PvE). Or add the option to choose their target for attack. (Also PvE).
Nobody sees anything Overpowered in Dual Spirit Spam (although should) But when we speak about minions, all as one say that it is imbalance: \
P.S. Please do something with spell Verata's Sacrifice, it is just disappointment
Nobody sees anything Overpowered in Dual Spirit Spam (although should) But when we speak about minions, all as one say that it is imbalance: \
P.S. Please do something with spell Verata's Sacrifice, it is just disappointment
Bob Slydell
lol minions are fine as they are -- lrn2mm
Kook~NBK~
/notsigned. A decent MM build with the current mechanics packs enough punch to handle anything in PvE. Having unlimited minions would be overpowered, and there's no "BS" about it.
Marty Silverblade
No offense, but anyone who seriously thinks Minions need buffing doesn't really know much about them.
/notsigned, for fairly simple/obvious reasons.
/notsigned, for fairly simple/obvious reasons.
Axel Zinfandel
The only thing that needs changed about MMs is Verata's and like skills and probably even Flesh gollom for PvE
Klone
rofl i remember minion masters using glyph of renewal and the old verata's sacrifice to solo thirsty river with an army of like 50 bone fiends pre-factions. bring back those days!
Zahr Dalsk
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Originally Posted by Dimus
Or slow down the degeneration, what would do not heal their every minute (PvE).
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Xenomortis
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Originally Posted by agrios
Some prolly will say: its overpowered BS! But since PVE is greatly driven by raw power (and thats why we have pve skills), why not?
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MM builds are already pretty damn strong in a mediocre team and only teams of human physicals that can roll through pretty much anything in seconds won't benefit much from one.
If you feel MMs lack raw power then you need to look much harder at Order of Undeath.
reaper with no name
So, let me get this straight.
You want to take two of the most powerful builds (MMs and MBs) available to one of the most overpowered classes in the game (necromancers) and...buff them?
...
Where's that laugh smiley? What? We don't have one? Damn. Quick, somebody suggest one for the site! It's a far better suggestion than this one, that's for sure.
You want to take two of the most powerful builds (MMs and MBs) available to one of the most overpowered classes in the game (necromancers) and...buff them?
...
Where's that laugh smiley? What? We don't have one? Damn. Quick, somebody suggest one for the site! It's a far better suggestion than this one, that's for sure.
Dimus
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Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
But the minions are already meant to die in combat and trigger Death Nova.
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Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel
The only thing that needs changed about MMs is Verata's and like skills and probably even Flesh gollom for PvE
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upier
Just.nl
/Notsigned.
Minions Masters are strong enough already. Look at AoTL , AoTL can give you with 1 skill already 10 minions.
Minions Masters are strong enough already. Look at AoTL , AoTL can give you with 1 skill already 10 minions.
NewbreedofMe
/notsigned
more stuff for Anet to buff and nerf..
make all professions balanced pve wise, speed clears yada pulling the game to a gutter
more stuff for Anet to buff and nerf..
make all professions balanced pve wise, speed clears yada pulling the game to a gutter
Fire Hiro
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Originally Posted by Just.nl
/Notsigned.
Minions Masters are strong enough already. Look at AoTL , AoTL can give you with 1 skill already 10 minions. |
/signed
Tenebrae
Some ppl here likes zerging when it isnt even needed. Got a N but no , not needed at all , they are great as it is so /notsigned
MagmaRed
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Originally Posted by Dimus
Yes - if you play for the MB, but I'm talking about MM's where minions life must be supported. Cannot anybody see that the most obvious job for the necromancer is summon the undead, but the heroies do the job beter. This is wrong, this is the same as if the hero warrior could tank better than the player, now who will take command in human MM if the hero does this work so much better???
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FoxBat
For the record, minion cap was primarily to make MMs walk over PvE factions less than they already did. In prophecies most of the endgame areas conveniently lacked corpses, making MMs seem like less of an issue than they really were.
Of course this was back in the day when they would occasionally nerf things for PvE sake instead of OMGBUFF mentalitly. Anet only has themselves to blame for these kind of stupid suggestions set by their stupid precedent.
Of course this was back in the day when they would occasionally nerf things for PvE sake instead of OMGBUFF mentalitly. Anet only has themselves to blame for these kind of stupid suggestions set by their stupid precedent.